Trainer

[Guest kar]

I am thinking of hiring a dog trainer. I would like to work on recall with my dog. The trainer who was recommended to me uses a training collar (electronic). What does everyone think of that? The woman who recommended him has five dogs, not greyhounds. She did have an electronic collar on one of them and when he was swimming too far into the lake she used it and he immediately turned and came back. I have always thought they were not humane. Opinions wanted.

[Sighthounds4me]

NO, no, no!!!!!!

 

You should not need an electronic collar to train recall. Instead, use positive methods, like having a mini-party when the dogs does what you want him or her to do.

 

I do not think electronic collars are inhumane. Many of them use tones rather than a shock. But as long as the shock is not too intense, it's not inhumane. BUT, with most sighthounds, it's unnecessary!

 

I MUCH prefer positive methods - have fun with your dog! Rather than training consequences of an action you don't want, build a relationship that encourages your dog to please you out of respect.

 

I have gone through beginner's obedience MANY times with my newest addition, because I am not demanding perfect obedience. I simply want him to enjoy going to kennel club, and enjoy spending time with me! I make sure to correct gently, and praise profusely!

[GeorgeofNE]

Bad idea!

[inugrey]

If you adopted through a group ask them for trainer recommendations because they should have gotten to now good trainers in the area who understand sighthounds. I find recall training is best taught with positive reinforcement methods like treats rather than using aversive methods such as a shock.

[Batmom]

No.

 

Trainer who uses electronic as a matter of course is lazy or stupid or both. Wouldn't let him/her near my dogs.

[Guest simile]

I don't see anything wrong with using an electronic collar as long as it's a tone collar and not a shock collar. My only concern about a tone collar would be the reliability of the recall. You want your dog to respond to your voice and I don't know if training with a tone collar adds an element (a cue) that you'll eventually have to undo. I mean, your dog isn't always going to wear the collar, right? So how solid will the recall be when your hound isn't wearing the collar? I'm not a trainer, so I don't know the answer to that question - maybe someone with experience in that area can speak up.

[Sighthounds4me]

No.

 

Trainer who uses electronic as a matter of course is lazy or stupid or both. Wouldn't let him/her near my dogs.

 

Another good point!

[jetcitywoman]

Another no vote. Greyhounds are opinionated, which sometimes makes people claim that they're hard to train. Rather they're like cats in a way - if they just don't feel like obeying, they won't. So negative training methods can totally backfire. The dog may figure "eh, sometimes mommy is mean, so I just don't feel like going over there right now, hey this smells good..." You want to create a situation where when you call, the dog thinks "hey, mommy is calling me and she always has something good when she calls, so I'm going to RUN over and see what she has! oh boy oh boy oh boy!" Sorry to assume that you're a she and not a he, but hopefully you get what I mean. You don't have to treat all the time, but as others said, you want to make recall such a happy party fun-time that your dog will WANT to come to you. It's not as hard as some people make it out to be. Just takes a little patience.

[Guest TheDoggfather]

"Trainer" who uses electronic as a matter of course is lazy or stupid or both. Wouldn't let him/her near my dogs.

 

 

This! (added the quotes on my own )

[Guest kydie]

Let,,see guess you can add me to the "NO" catagory What a lazy way to train a dog

Edited July 24, 2010 by kydie

[RobinM]

NO NO NO. There are so many other correct ways to get the results you want. Please don't let someone talk you into something that is not in the dogs best interest.

[Guest DoofBert]

NO vote from me, too...... for the reasons stated above... But I also have concerns about something électronic'used when a hound is swimming???? Just doesn't sound right to me.

 

We found a wonderful local trainer after a phone with Lee Livingood, author of Greyhounds for Dummies. If you happen to live near Harrisburg PA, you are lucky as that is where Lee offers her training classes!

 

POSITIVE MOTIVATION TRAINING is the best. I have found my ex racers respond more readily to a squawker (that was used at the track) than they do to my voice. We have squawker drills every so often to reinforce the recall. (We always give really really good special treats during recall training!)

[kudzu]

No.

 

Trainer who uses electronic as a matter of course is lazy or stupid or both. Wouldn't let him/her near my dogs.

Truth, pure truth.

 

Now a tone only collar is different but not even a shock collar set on tone only would be allowed on my dog unless the probes had been permanently disabled/removed before it ever went on my dog. Whistle training is a good idea as well. Even then, I would continue training for a solid recall without any hardware.

 

Am not trying to discourage you from using a trainer. Without them I would never have trained my dogs anything. However, bad trainers are worse than no trainers unless you know enough to take only the good parts & are strong enough to say NO to them on other things. You may be one of those people. I don't know. I am finally becoming one.

 

If you do not have a good trainer in your area or you want to try it on your own, there are quite a few methods for recall that can get very good results without a trainer. Here are some examples (various takes on the same theme):

 

• 
   
  
• "Really Reliable Recall" by Leslie Nelson; available as affordable booklet from Dogwise or still somewhat affordable DVD version from Tawzer
  
• "Come Here Now" is a webpage from Suzanne Harris, a local trainer I used twice. It gives instructions for a simple yet surprisingly effective modified version of the RRR. Was amazed at my dogs response. [Note: This is not an endorsement of this trainer, just this method. There are some other good training suggestions on the website though.]
  
• "Really reliable recall or Fido, PLEASE come home!" by Pamela Dennison
  
• "Recall Redux" from Shirley Chong's site.
  

Doing more than just recall? Then I strongly recommend this site:

 

• "Training Levels" by Sue Ailsby is a wonderful site with a complete online training program. It is fantastic. Designed to be used level by level, you can also do some behaviors on their own level by level without needing to complete the other behaviors. Though certain behaviors later build on multiple behaviors from earlier levels.
   
  

And do not forget the "10 Rules for a Really Reliable Recall"

[Hawthorn]

No, I would never use such a collar or a trainer who recommended one.

 

I've recall-trained all of my greyhounds using only positive techniques such as wonderful treats every single time, lots of fun and excitement and building it up very, very slowly and carefully.

 

I've just read "10 Rules for a Really Reliable Recall" as mentioned by the previous poster and it's really excellent - I agree with every word.

[Guest BooBooMama]

OMG NO!!!!

Every dog that I have encountered who has been trained with an E Collar is nervous, fearful or aggressive and I am talking about Golden Retrievers, labs and a Standard Poodle. Can you imagine what it would do to a sensitive dog like a greyhound?

 

Also I took Jamie to an AKC class years ago and they used 'corrections' (not shock) for training and even that made her crazy- totally freaked and spooked throughout the entire class- we quit. (I live with the guilt to this day.) I agree- positive reinforcement is the only way with this breed.

[Guest KennelMom]

Would never use one to train recall...Positive methods definitely work best for that. I *DO* believe corrections have a very appropriate place in training dogs, but not for recall.

[Guest mcsheltie]

I LOVE Batmom's post couldn't have said it better.

 

I have gone thru all stages of training over the years. I have used e collars and pinch collars. But even back in my snatch and jerk days the most Koehler-ish of trainers only used them for a specific need, never as standard equipment.

 

I have been taking my hounds to the Greyhound Only class in Troy, MI and have been using clicker training on some of my client dogs that have been messed up before they came to me. It is far more rewarding to train a thinking dog. One that works with you because they want to and enjoy it. A forced recall will never be reliable

[Sighthounds4me]

OMG NO!!!!

Every dog that I have encountered who has been trained with an E Collar is nervous, fearful or aggressive and I am talking about Golden Retrievers, labs and a Standard Poodle. Can you imagine what it would do to a sensitive dog like a greyhound?

 

The thing is, the dog does not have to be "sensitive" to react badly to harsh training. Pain is simply NO LONGER a legitimate training technique.

 

And anyway, if you think about it, why would you want your dog to respond to you out of fear? I would prefer to foster respect and love - it's a lot easier to get a dog to do the right thing if they respect the trainer.

 

Would never use one to train recall...Positive methods definitely work best for that. I *DO* believe corrections have a very appropriate place in training dogs, but not for recall.

 

I also agree that corrections have a place. I suspect you meant this, Heather: mild corrections can be effective. A leash-pop for a dog that's pulling on the leash, for example. But the key is, PRAISE the dog *IMMEDIATELY* when he/she does the right thing.

 

And, as Heather stated, DO NOT EVER discipline a dog for coming to you, even if he/she broke a stay command, or otherwise misbehaved. You want the dog to ALWAYS be happy to come to you!

Edited July 25, 2010 by Sighthounds4me

[Guest iconsmum]

YAYY for Greyt Pup - you are a great owner!!

I'm a trainer and I'm trying not to cry - again...the trouble with our industry is that ANYone can say that they're a trainer - it's totally unregulated..... Read Batmom 3 times, cause she's right. E collars are sooo far out of date, but we know there are people out there that are using positive punishments, negative reinforcements while the educated dog-training world has moved on and left them far FAR behind. Using any kind of pain to condition a response is not humane. It's uneducated or it's lazy, pick one...the results are crappy and the dog's mind is messed with. I have never laid a hand on a dog and I train, condition and counter-condition everything from Shiloh Shepherds to border collies to greyhounds ...ALL the same way - no quick fixes, no pain collars - whistles yep, sure of course..clickers, hand signals, different motivator(s) for each dog if necessary, but reward-based, happy-dog stuff - never aversion, i.e. doing something ("come") to prevent the shock or whatever, that the dog knows will come if he doesn't obey.

 

I'm so impressed you were so smart to post this here - it might out a few more of these "trainers" at the same time...many thanks for the help

Edited July 25, 2010 by iconsmum

[Guest Jubilee251]

Never a shock collar - I can guarantee you 100% that if I put a shock collar on my pups and gave the "correction," they would both be startled and bolt in any direction. Not only do I think its inhumane, these dogs tend to take off without a thought when something scares them, and they are not going to run back to you.

[cleptogrey]

i don't know if you cross referrene your posts, but i mentioned in your 50 ft leash post a wonderful trainer in greenwhich ct- mary elizabeth simpson whose bio is at portchester obedience club, (teachrover.com??) and wpsat.net as well. she has a good sense of humor and i have personally worked w/ her for 18 years(i'm well trained these days- right foot forward on a stay). she believes in play, play, play and more play while you train, lots of praise and fun. knows every trick in the book and your $$ will be well spent. look up her kennel, reinwood corgi- don't be discouraged since she doesn't have sight hounds. she has experience plus!

[racindog]

No.

 

Trainer who uses electronic as a matter of course is lazy or stupid or both. Wouldn't let him/her near my dogs.

 

 

DOUBLE DITTO!

[Guest Bean_Scotch]

As a trainer, NO! to these collars well almost period on a Greyhound. They do have their purpose. Be careful about the 'sound' ones that humans 'can't hear'. I can hear them and everytime I do I cringe in pain because they hurt my ears. Now if they hurt MY ears, can you imagine what's happening to a dog? It can actually cause their ears to bleed.

 

With the 'shock' collars. Using these takes about 2-3 weeks off their life everytime you use it. There's better things to train dogs that these.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Bean_Scotch