Chemo Prep

[Charlies_Dad]

Does anyone have advice on how best to prep one's pup for Chemo? I know that it can cause lower WBC so is there anything one can feed their pup or give supplements to help?

 

 

Tks.

Kyle

[Bevd]

I'm not sure - but no doubt someone will know something useful and will tell you

 

We didn't do any prep for Darcy (other than praying to anyone who might listen and keeping fingers crossed and taking rescue remedy - but that last one was just for me).

 

We were told of things to do during the chemo though, such as we had to wear surgical gloves to dispose of any toilet solids or other bodily...things for a few days after each round of chemo. And we had to take her temperature every day and if it went above a certain level, she had to be started on antibiotics (which we'd been given in advance) and then phone the vet immediately. Also, I learned that giving foods high in antioxidants (which are good cancer fighters) was not to be done during the chemo.

 

Some vets don't seem to give the same instructions as above re wearing of gloves etc so you will of course have to be guided by your own vet on stuff like that.

 

Do you know which drug(s) Charlie will be having?

[Charlies_Dad]

Currently the plan is to use Doxorubicin from OSU. I have been doing a lot of research on the various protocols and there is some anecdotal evidence Carboplatin may do better but not scientific fact. It is easier on their stomachs, costs a lot more but can be toxic to kidneys. This is what I have found:

 

Cisplatin (given IV every 3 to 4 weeks for 3 treatments)

 

The median survival time with this therapy is 400 days.

 

Survival at 1 year: 30% to 60%

 

Survival at 2 years: 7% to 21%

 

Giving less than 3 doses does not increase survival time (i.e., if one can only afford one or two treatments, it is not worth the expense of therapy)

 

Cisplatin can be toxic to the kidneys and should not be used in animals with pre-existing kidney disease.

 

 

 

Carboplatin (given by IV every 3 to 4 weeks for 4 treatments)

 

Similar statistics to cisplatin but carboplatin is not toxic to the kidneys and can be used if the patient has pre-existing kidney disease.

 

Carboplatin is substantially more expensive than cisplatin.

 

 

 

Doxorubicin (given IV every 2 weeks for 5 treatments)

 

The median survival time is 365 days.

 

10% still alive at 2 years.

 

 

Toxic to the heart. An ultrasound examination is needed prior to using this drug as it should not be given to patients with reduced heart contracting ability.

 

 

Doxorubicin and Cisplatin in Combination (both given IV together every 3 weeks for four treatments)

 

48% survival at 1 year

 

30% survival at 2 years

 

16% survival at 3 years

 

 

I have also read that doing up to 6 treatments of Carboplatin has shown to be good for some pups (longer life) but again not a lot of facts behind this.

 

Kyle

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

I didn't do any prep before chemo for the dogs or my own chemo. After chemo, we were told to watch for signs of infection but we didn't take their temperature.

[Guest azlorenz]

When does Charlie start Chemo? We consult with the Oncologist on Tuesday. Hope to get started asap.

[NeylasMom]

I obviously haven't gone through this myself, but from my discussions with various oncologists, my advice is to inform yourself of the early warning signs of sepsis and if you even suspect them, seek help immediately. It's a rare side effect, but it is possible and it is treatable, but if caught soon enough.

 

I'm sure that will not even come up for Charlie though - he's such a strong boy.

[MP_the4pack]

We didn't do any prep.

 

Dima did very well her for several treatments. They were usually Fridays. By sunday she may have had a drop in appetite.

 

But, I think it did do a lot of damage to her kidneys. 6 months later, she developed a limp in a remaining leg and it was also OS. But she was also in kidney failure. I brought her in primarily because she wasn't eating. (bad sign for her) as well as limping. But I truly thought she'd overdone the running. It never occured to me that she had OS in another leg. her lungs were still clear.

[MP_the4pack]

duplicate post

Edited July 23, 2010 by MP_the4pack

[Charlies_Dad]

When does Charlie start Chemo? We consult with the Oncologist on Tuesday. Hope to get started asap.

 

Shannon,

 

We are planning for the week of Aug 2nd. We want to start it soon as possible and were told that likely it would start after the staples are out (10-14 days). It seems to depend on the vet of when they think you can start it but I believe that the person who knows their pup best is the owner. If the pup is well recovered from the amp, there shouldn't be an issue starting Chemo. Some pups even had Chemo the same week as their amp!

[Bluesky]

We did no prep whatsoever other than hoping the blood count was OK. We only kept an eye on her afterwards to make sure she wasn't sick or anything out of the ordinary. We were also told to wash the area where she urinated with a bleach/water solution to dilute the chemo drugs that went into the soil. Cali was only sick after the first treatment and just a little tired on the subsequent ones. Where will the chemo treatments be done? I'm glad to hear that Charlie is doing well and hope he continues to improve.

[Charlies_Dad]

Vicky,

 

We are trying to figure out where now. We have three potential options, close by in Cornwall at the St. Lawrence Animal Hospital, Greenbank Animal Hospital or Alta Vista. I had a conversation with Janet today about arrangements concerning the drugs. Now we just need to finalize which one we are going to and schedule the date.

[Bevd]

Currently the plan is to use Doxorubicin from OSU. I have been doing a lot of research on the various protocols and there is some anecdotal evidence Carboplatin may do better but not scientific fact. It is easier on their stomachs, costs a lot more but can be toxic to kidneys. This is what I have found:

 

Cisplatin (given IV every 3 to 4 weeks for 3 treatments)

 

The median survival time with this therapy is 400 days.

 

Survival at 1 year: 30% to 60%

 

Survival at 2 years: 7% to 21%

 

Giving less than 3 doses does not increase survival time (i.e., if one can only afford one or two treatments, it is not worth the expense of therapy)

 

Cisplatin can be toxic to the kidneys and should not be used in animals with pre-existing kidney disease.

 

 

 

Carboplatin (given by IV every 3 to 4 weeks for 4 treatments)

 

Similar statistics to cisplatin but carboplatin is not toxic to the kidneys and can be used if the patient has pre-existing kidney disease.

 

Carboplatin is substantially more expensive than cisplatin.

 

 

 

Doxorubicin (given IV every 2 weeks for 5 treatments)

 

The median survival time is 365 days.

 

10% still alive at 2 years.

 

 

Toxic to the heart. An ultrasound examination is needed prior to using this drug as it should not be given to patients with reduced heart contracting ability.

 

 

Doxorubicin and Cisplatin in Combination (both given IV together every 3 weeks for four treatments)

 

48% survival at 1 year

 

30% survival at 2 years

 

16% survival at 3 years

 

 

I have also read that doing up to 6 treatments of Carboplatin has shown to be good for some pups (longer life) but again not a lot of facts behind this.

 

Kyle

 

You and your vet will of course decide what is best but just to share our experience, Darcy had Carboplatin and Doxorubacin at three weekly intervals for four treatments so it went Carboplatin, Doxorubacin, Carboplatin, Doxorubacin. That was the original plan. But as she was doing so very well on the treatments, our vet was going to tag on another Carboplatin at the end. However, after her 2nd and last Doxorubacin, Darcy became quite unwell (and spent a week in hospital) so once she'd come through that, we all decided not to tag on the extra Carboplatin. She also has a smallish amount of heart damage from the Doxorubacin but thats a very small price to pay for what it gave her.

 

Just in case you don't know, Darcy just celebrated 33 months post diagnosis/amp. I know she is one of the extremely lucky few but I hope she can give you and others just a little more hope

Edited July 23, 2010 by Bevd

[Charlies_Dad]

 

Just in case you don't know, Darcy just celebrated 33 months post diagnosis/amp. I know she is one of the extremely lucky few but I hope she can give you and others just a little more hope

 

I have followed Darcy whenever you post and it is fantastic news. I hope Charlie can match that great feat and we will be helping him get there whatever way we can.

[Bevd]

I very much hope he can too

[Guest azlorenz]

We did no prep whatsoever other than hoping the blood count was OK. We only kept an eye on her afterwards to make sure she wasn't sick or anything out of the ordinary. We were also told to wash the area where she urinated with a bleach/water solution to dilute the chemo drugs that went into the soil. Cali was only sick after the first treatment and just a little tired on the subsequent ones. Where will the chemo treatments be done? I'm glad to hear that Charlie is doing well and hope he continues to improve.

 

What Chemo protocal did Cali have?

 

 

Just in case you don't know, Darcy just celebrated 33 months post diagnosis/amp. I know she is one of the extremely lucky few but I hope she can give you and others just a little more hope

 

I have followed Darcy whenever you post and it is fantastic news. I hope Charlie can match that great feat and we will be helping him get there whatever way we can.

 

Ditto. Darcy gives all of us going through this at this time hope. And we could use it. Thank you for sharing and supporting.

[MaryJane]

I would check with the vet whether you can give them a blanket (that will be destroyed after) that your dog can lie on. Because of the toxicity of the material, many places do not have any "extra" materials in the pens/runs and thus the dogs may be lying on concrete.

 

I would also check to see if they will be giving medicine for the upset stomach that happens with a chemo protocol. When my dog has his amputation, it was not a common practice to give anti-nausea medicine and as a result, my pup was barely eating after the chemo treatments although, he would usually take a few laps of "yogurt and cheerios".

 

With chemo they also overload on the fluids so your dog may be peeing quite frequently during the night. In my case (which is extreme) my dog needed to go out every 20 minutes or so until the wee hours of the morning and by that time he finally seemed to rid himself of the extra fluid and settled in to sleep.

 

 

 

Good Luck ...

 

 

edited to add ... You might also consider bringing in some treats for the "oncology staff". I used to bring in coffee/muffins just so they would remember me and hopefully treat my dog better. In my case, whenever I came in for my appointment, the oncology nurse would come out immediately to get him rather than us waiting ... so it seemed to help.

Edited July 23, 2010 by MaryJane

[RobinM]

We did the 6 treatments of Carboplatin and we had one day short of 5 months. When you think about it, it's actually less because you "lose" 5 days for every chemo. They are down and out and they should be- that means it's working!

 

So, minus another month of quality time. I suppose there are many different angles to look at it.

 

Bottom line is I have no regrets, only that it didn't give her more time. It still hurts like he77.

[HopeForHounds]

We did no prep whatsoever other than hoping the blood count was OK. We only kept an eye on her afterwards to make sure she wasn't sick or anything out of the ordinary. We were also told to wash the area where she urinated with a bleach/water solution to dilute the chemo drugs that went into the soil. Cali was only sick after the first treatment and just a little tired on the subsequent ones. Where will the chemo treatments be done? I'm glad to hear that Charlie is doing well and hope he continues to improve.

 

What Chemo protocal did Cali have?

 

 

 

Cali had doxorubicin only. She also had a big delay due to an infection in her back leg at the site of her blood transfusion. She lived almost to the day of her 1 year anniversary of the amputation, only to pass away from a suspected stroke.

[Guest bigorangedog]

Hey Kyle - If you haven't seen it, I have a "what to expect" about Chemo on my blog too. We also did doxo with both our boys and it went really well both times. Because it immunosuppresses them, you might want to give them some heath supplements that support the immune system. You can ask your vet what he/she recommends, but we actually gave Apollo some Flintstones vitamins.

 

Other than that, you'll want to have some Cerenia or other anti-emetic on hand for after the first treatment. Possibly also something like Pediasure in case you have trouble getting the pup to eat for a day or two. Or some sure-fire appetizers like chicken broth or chicken babyfood. If the dog is nauseous, he'll probably actually be LESS likely to eat the really smelly canned food. Need something more bland.

 

But yes, have a rectal thermometer in case you need to monitor temp. I didn't take regular temp checks, but if Charlie seems out of sorts, you should check temp.

 

If you have other Qs, please let me know and I'll see if I can help!

Jen

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

With chemo they also overload on the fluids so your dog may be peeing quite frequently during the night. In my case (which is extreme) my dog needed to go out every 20 minutes or so until the wee hours of the morning and by that time he finally seemed to rid himself of the extra fluid and settled in to sleep.

Not all oncologists give fluids during chemo. NEVOG would give the chemo while we were in the room. It only took a few minutes and fluids were not given. Alex was treated at another oncologist. For him, we would drop off in the morning and pick up after work. He may have had fluids. It may also be related to the chemo protocol. Alex was the only one to get doxorubicin.

[Guest azlorenz]

Hey Kyle - If you haven't seen it, I have a "what to expect" about Chemo on my blog too. We also did doxo with both our boys and it went really well both times. Because it immunosuppresses them, you might want to give them some heath supplements that support the immune system. You can ask your vet what he/she recommends, but we actually gave Apollo some Flintstones vitamins.

 

Other than that, you'll want to have some Cerenia or other anti-emetic on hand for after the first treatment. Possibly also something like Pediasure in case you have trouble getting the pup to eat for a day or two. Or some sure-fire appetizers like chicken broth or chicken babyfood. If the dog is nauseous, he'll probably actually be LESS likely to eat the really smelly canned food. Need something more bland.

 

But yes, have a rectal thermometer in case you need to monitor temp. I didn't take regular temp checks, but if Charlie seems out of sorts, you should check temp.

 

If you have other Qs, please let me know and I'll see if I can help!

Jen

 

 

Jen,

 

I have to say that you have great information and kept us together during the first 72 hours after amputation. Thank you so much for sharing it with all of us going this scary time.

 

Shannon

[Charlies_Dad]

Hey Kyle - If you haven't seen it, I have a "what to expect" about Chemo on my blog too. We also did doxo with both our boys and it went really well both times. Because it immunosuppresses them, you might want to give them some heath supplements that support the immune system. You can ask your vet what he/she recommends, but we actually gave Apollo some Flintstones vitamins.

 

Other than that, you'll want to have some Cerenia or other anti-emetic on hand for after the first treatment. Possibly also something like Pediasure in case you have trouble getting the pup to eat for a day or two. Or some sure-fire appetizers like chicken broth or chicken babyfood. If the dog is nauseous, he'll probably actually be LESS likely to eat the really smelly canned food. Need something more bland.

 

But yes, have a rectal thermometer in case you need to monitor temp. I didn't take regular temp checks, but if Charlie seems out of sorts, you should check temp.

 

If you have other Qs, please let me know and I'll see if I can help!

Jen

 

 

Jen,

 

I have to say that you have great information and kept us together during the first 72 hours after amputation. Thank you so much for sharing it with all of us going this scary time.

 

Shannon

 

I second that. Jen, your blog was very helpful for us and really appreciate you taking the time to share the information. I had forgotten about your Chemo blog and now have read it. Again the information is invaluable when going down this road.

 

Kyle