Osteo Diagnosis

[Guest azlorenz]

So glad Neyla is feeling "frisky".

[greyhounds1234]

Thank you for the info about Valley Fever, never even contemplated that as a cause.

 

We should be getting results of the FNA Wednesday or Thursday and we'll know better how we are going to proceed.

 

I talked with our original vet several times yesterday and she has already emailed Dr Couto's staff about the lung spots and how that might effect treatment.

 

Bay got home yesterday afternoon and pretty well slept the rest of the day. Today, she has been in a fair amount of pain/discomfort so she's had several tramadol and will get another before we head for bed. I've tried to keep my activity level to a minimum because she follows me around the house and I really wanted her to just remain in one spot and not try to move around so much. I'm hoping she feels better tomorrow. I owe her a better existance than being stuffed with pain pills and asleep on the floor.

 

I'm really frustrated that with osteo, about the only way it's even suspected is when the dog is lame and by then, it makes it difficult to treat. Guess it's pointless to have xrays annually just as a precaution since the osteo can pop up so quickly. While a cure would be wonderful, I just would like a better chance of finding it before it gets ahead of us.

I'm mad at cancer, osteo specifically. This is just frigging wrong. It shouldn't happen so often. Really, even toothbrushes have a color dot that changes when we need to change our toothbrush...why can't there be some sort of marker in the dogs that changes when it detects cancer...while it's early and can be stopped before it goes haywire.

[Charlies_Dad]

 

I'm really frustrated that with osteo, about the only way it's even suspected is when the dog is lame and by then, it makes it difficult to treat. Guess it's pointless to have xrays annually just as a precaution since the osteo can pop up so quickly. While a cure would be wonderful, I just would like a better chance of finding it before it gets ahead of us.

I'm mad at cancer, osteo specifically. This is just frigging wrong. It shouldn't happen so often. Really, even toothbrushes have a color dot that changes when we need to change our toothbrush...why can't there be some sort of marker in the dogs that changes when it detects cancer...while it's early and can be stopped before it goes haywire.

 

I hear you! That was the same thoughts I had when Charlie was diagnosed in July. I had thought of performing proactive x-rays many months ago but thought better of it as what would that do other than put our pups through the process? Once it's evident, it's there and there is nothing to do except make critical decisions on how to treat. Someday hopefully soon, a cure will be found.

 

I hope you get some good feedback on your best course of action for Bay.

[NeylasMom]

 

I'm really frustrated that with osteo, about the only way it's even suspected is when the dog is lame and by then, it makes it difficult to treat. Guess it's pointless to have xrays annually just as a precaution since the osteo can pop up so quickly. While a cure would be wonderful, I just would like a better chance of finding it before it gets ahead of us.

I'm mad at cancer, osteo specifically. This is just frigging wrong. It shouldn't happen so often. Really, even toothbrushes have a color dot that changes when we need to change our toothbrush...why can't there be some sort of marker in the dogs that changes when it detects cancer...while it's early and can be stopped before it goes haywire.

 

I hear you! That was the same thoughts I had when Charlie was diagnosed in July. I had thought of performing proactive x-rays many months ago but thought better of it as what would that do other than put our pups through the process? Once it's evident, it's there and there is nothing to do except make critical decisions on how to treat. Someday hopefully soon, a cure will be found.

 

I hope you get some good feedback on your best course of action for Bay.

Yep, it's a really cruel disease - affects way too many of our hounds, with little warning, and poor treatment options. But, there has been good progress and I find some of the holistic options very promising in addition to the success that some people are having with amputation and chemo. It seems to me that progress is at least being made in the right direction and that success is most dependent on early detection and being informed about ALL of your options so you can start treatment quickly. Early detection in particular means insisting on x-rays early rather than waiting, preferably at a facility that has good equipment. I lost 2 weeks b/c my vet missed it, I can't even imagine what would have happened if I hadn't insisted on having the appt with the ortho. Not to mention that under the latter's advisement, I would have lost another 2 weeks waiting to redo the x-ray rather than sending ti straight off to Dr. Couto like I did at the insistence of people on this board. It's why I harp on it to everyone who posts about an uncertain dx now, although I realized I probably seem obnoxious when I do it. But I'm digressing, point being, you have every right to be frustrated. I think it's something we've all gone through at some stage - lots of anger and frustration. Eventually you reach acceptance and then it becomes easier to do exactly what Kyle said - make critical decisions on how to treat.

 

Day 2 of our arte cycle last night and a frisky Neyla again this morning. Very little doubt the arte does have an immediate effect for her at this point. As an aside, my reason for sharing that was to encourage people who are considering using it (or planning to use it when they're done with chemo).

[Guest greytfulhounds]

Hi everyone!

 

Danny is doing well on the pain meds & is using the leg a lot more than he was. He is his silly, bouncing self & is eating well.....can't ask for more than that right now. After several days of reading until my head wants to explode & several conversations with Danny's vet, we decided to start out with just using the Artemisinin, increasing his fish oil, continuing the Fresh Factors & Joint Health Formula he has been taking & the pain meds. As we move forward we will decide what, if any, changes we will make.

 

Thank you to everyone for all of the input & support as we get started.

 

Dan & I are sending hugs , prayers & hope out to all of the hounds & humans facing this terrible disease......you all, already, mean a lot to us!

[NeylasMom]

Hi everyone!

 

Danny is doing well on the pain meds & is using the leg a lot more than he was. He is his silly, bouncing self & is eating well.....can't ask for more than that right now. After several days of reading until my head wants to explode & several conversations with Danny's vet, we decided to start out with just using the Artemisinin, increasing his fish oil, continuing the Fresh Factors & Joint Health Formula he has been taking & the pain meds. As we move forward we will decide what, if any, changes we will make.

 

Thank you to everyone for all of the input & support as we get started.

 

Dan & I are sending hugs , prayers & hope out to all of the hounds & humans facing this terrible disease......you all, already, mean a lot to us!

It's good to have a plan! Sounds like a totally reasonable way to start out. We did something similar. I told my vet I'd be doing the holistic stuff and if Neyla's pain worsened, I would come back to discuss radiation or pamidronate further. So far, we have not needed to - am hoping the same for you!

[greyhounds1234]

The results of the FNA were inconclusive. Swell. There apparently were cancer indicators but nothing definate. The vet said that a bone biopsy would determine for certain. Swell.

 

He also reminded me that amputation/chemo was really considered pallative care since it simply removed the source of the pain and prolonged the inevitable. Swell. Like I didn't know that already.

 

It is making me reconsider aggressive treatment. For all of you who have tried pamidronate, please give me some details on this. Is this something covered by OSU,

if not, what's the approximate cost and have you been happy with the results?

 

I've already fired off an email to my regular vet to get her opinions on the pamidronate iv's and I'll go talk to her tomorrow.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

The results of the FNA were inconclusive. Swell. There apparently were cancer indicators but nothing definate. The vet said that a bone biopsy would determine for certain. Swell.

 

He also reminded me that amputation/chemo was really considered pallative care since it simply removed the source of the pain and prolonged the inevitable. Swell. Like I didn't know that already.

 

It is making me reconsider aggressive treatment. For all of you who have tried pamidronate, please give me some details on this. Is this something covered by OSU,

if not, what's the approximate cost and have you been happy with the results?

 

I've already fired off an email to my regular vet to get her opinions on the pamidronate iv's and I'll go talk to her tomorrow.

 

I am so sorry they have not been able to give you a conclusive answer.

 

We have not used the pamidronate but briefly looked into it. My vet has never used this drug but she had her office check on pricing & she said that from what they have initially been able to find out is that it would be between $200-$300 per infusion (every 28 days), plus the blood work & x-rays.

 

There is a website www.bonecancerdogs.org......on the left side there are treatment options & if you click on the "Bisphosphonates" it will give you a little description of how it works & some pros & cons.

 

Hoping you get some answers & a course soon!

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Rose is not well. It's time to let her go

[joejoesmom]

The results of the FNA were inconclusive. Swell. There apparently were cancer indicators but nothing definate. The vet said that a bone biopsy would determine for certain. Swell.

 

He also reminded me that amputation/chemo was really considered pallative care since it simply removed the source of the pain and prolonged the inevitable. Swell. Like I didn't know that already.

 

It is making me reconsider aggressive treatment. For all of you who have tried pamidronate, please give me some details on this. Is this something covered by OSU,

if not, what's the approximate cost and have you been happy with the results?

 

I've already fired off an email to my regular vet to get her opinions on the pamidronate iv's and I'll go talk to her tomorrow.

 

First of all, I don't think pamidronate would be provided by OSU but you could always check.

 

I would send the slides from the FNA and the x-rays to OSU to see if they can see anything conclusive.

 

Lastly, I don't consider amputation / chemo palliative because there is still a 10 percent chance that it will permanently get rid of the cancer. I can't remember if you were the person who said that there are lung mets -- if so, then amp/chemo will just delay the inevitable. Dr. Couto is having some success with palladia reducing the rate of growth of the lung mets.

 

The statistics remain (with no lung mets visible on x-ray):

 

palliative care: 6 to 12 weeks on average

amp/chemo: 1 year on average

 

Only you can determine if amp/chemo is worth it in your situation.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is such a difficult decision. Whatever you decide it will be out of love for your dog and your family.

 

Jane

[greyhounds1234]

Rose is not well. It's time to let her go

 

Oh no. I am so very sorry.

[greyhounds1234]

The results of the FNA were inconclusive. Swell. There apparently were cancer indicators but nothing definate. The vet said that a bone biopsy would determine for certain. Swell.

 

He also reminded me that amputation/chemo was really considered pallative care since it simply removed the source of the pain and prolonged the inevitable. Swell. Like I didn't know that already.

 

It is making me reconsider aggressive treatment. For all of you who have tried pamidronate, please give me some details on this. Is this something covered by OSU,

if not, what's the approximate cost and have you been happy with the results?

 

I've already fired off an email to my regular vet to get her opinions on the pamidronate iv's and I'll go talk to her tomorrow.

 

First of all, I don't think pamidronate would be provided by OSU but you could always check.

 

I would send the slides from the FNA and the x-rays to OSU to see if they can see anything conclusive.

 

Lastly, I don't consider amputation / chemo palliative because there is still a 10 percent chance that it will permanently get rid of the cancer. I can't remember if you were the person who said that there are lung mets -- if so, then amp/chemo will just delay the inevitable. Dr. Couto is having some success with palladia reducing the rate of growth of the lung mets.

 

The statistics remain (with no lung mets visible on x-ray):

 

palliative care: 6 to 12 weeks on average

amp/chemo: 1 year on average

 

Only you can determine if amp/chemo is worth it in your situation.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is such a difficult decision. Whatever you decide it will be out of love for your dog and your family.

 

Jane

 

It appears we have lung mets. *sigh* And that is the part that is making me rethink everything. When the orthopedic surgeon isn't encouraging me to pursue amp/chemo, it does give me pause.

It's all such a crap shoot and I hate that. I just want to do what's best for her and I can't figure out what that is.

I did read a little on the Bonecancerdogs.org website and it appears that they use radiation along with other treatments. Not sure about doing the radiation part. Not even sure any of the local vets can even do radiation therapy.

I'm learning about things I never wanted to learn. Hard to absorb all of it.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I'm sorry you're going through this.

 

I don't think I would do amp, but it's such a personal choice, and not an easy one.

[Guest azlorenz]

Hi everyone!

 

Danny is doing well on the pain meds & is using the leg a lot more than he was. He is his silly, bouncing self & is eating well.....can't ask for more than that right now. After several days of reading until my head wants to explode & several conversations with Danny's vet, we decided to start out with just using the Artemisinin, increasing his fish oil, continuing the Fresh Factors & Joint Health Formula he has been taking & the pain meds. As we move forward we will decide what, if any, changes we will make.

 

Thank you to everyone for all of the input & support as we get started.

 

Dan & I are sending hugs , prayers & hope out to all of the hounds & humans facing this terrible disease......you all, already, mean a lot to us!

 

 

So glad to hear Danny is feeling good.

[teri_d]

Rose is not well. It's time to let her go

 

oh no - i sob as i am reading this - i was so hopeful your beautiful rose was going to have a bit more time - my heart hurts with you -- i am so so so sorry

[Guest azlorenz]

The results of the FNA were inconclusive. Swell. There apparently were cancer indicators but nothing definate. The vet said that a bone biopsy would determine for certain. Swell.

 

He also reminded me that amputation/chemo was really considered pallative care since it simply removed the source of the pain and prolonged the inevitable. Swell. Like I didn't know that already.

 

It is making me reconsider aggressive treatment. For all of you who have tried pamidronate, please give me some details on this. Is this something covered by OSU,

if not, what's the approximate cost and have you been happy with the results?

 

I've already fired off an email to my regular vet to get her opinions on the pamidronate iv's and I'll go talk to her tomorrow.

 

First of all, I don't think pamidronate would be provided by OSU but you could always check.

 

I would send the slides from the FNA and the x-rays to OSU to see if they can see anything conclusive.

 

Lastly, I don't consider amputation / chemo palliative because there is still a 10 percent chance that it will permanently get rid of the cancer. I can't remember if you were the person who said that there are lung mets -- if so, then amp/chemo will just delay the inevitable. Dr. Couto is having some success with palladia reducing the rate of growth of the lung mets.

 

The statistics remain (with no lung mets visible on x-ray):

 

palliative care: 6 to 12 weeks on average

amp/chemo: 1 year on average

 

Only you can determine if amp/chemo is worth it in your situation.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is such a difficult decision. Whatever you decide it will be out of love for your dog and your family.

 

Jane

 

It appears we have lung mets. *sigh* And that is the part that is making me rethink everything. When the orthopedic surgeon isn't encouraging me to pursue amp/chemo, it does give me pause.

It's all such a crap shoot and I hate that. I just want to do what's best for her and I can't figure out what that is.

I did read a little on the Bonecancerdogs.org website and it appears that they use radiation along with other treatments. Not sure about doing the radiation part. Not even sure any of the local vets can even do radiation therapy.

I'm learning about things I never wanted to learn. Hard to absorb all of it.

 

I think we've all learned way more about osteo than we'd like. I'm so sorry.

 

Rose is not well. It's time to let her go

 

Oh no. I am so very sorry.

 

I am so sorry to hear about Rose.

[NeylasMom]

Rose is not well. It's time to let her go

Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that. Do you know when so we can at least send some good thoughts your way that day?

 

 

The results of the FNA were inconclusive. Swell. There apparently were cancer indicators but nothing definate. The vet said that a bone biopsy would determine for certain. Swell.

 

He also reminded me that amputation/chemo was really considered pallative care since it simply removed the source of the pain and prolonged the inevitable. Swell. Like I didn't know that already.

 

It is making me reconsider aggressive treatment. For all of you who have tried pamidronate, please give me some details on this. Is this something covered by OSU,

if not, what's the approximate cost and have you been happy with the results?

 

I've already fired off an email to my regular vet to get her opinions on the pamidronate iv's and I'll go talk to her tomorrow.

 

First of all, I don't think pamidronate would be provided by OSU but you could always check.

 

I would send the slides from the FNA and the x-rays to OSU to see if they can see anything conclusive.

 

Lastly, I don't consider amputation / chemo palliative because there is still a 10 percent chance that it will permanently get rid of the cancer. I can't remember if you were the person who said that there are lung mets -- if so, then amp/chemo will just delay the inevitable. Dr. Couto is having some success with palladia reducing the rate of growth of the lung mets.

 

The statistics remain (with no lung mets visible on x-ray):

 

palliative care: 6 to 12 weeks on average

amp/chemo: 1 year on average

 

Only you can determine if amp/chemo is worth it in your situation.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is such a difficult decision. Whatever you decide it will be out of love for your dog and your family.

 

Jane

 

It appears we have lung mets. *sigh* And that is the part that is making me rethink everything. When the orthopedic surgeon isn't encouraging me to pursue amp/chemo, it does give me pause.

It's all such a crap shoot and I hate that. I just want to do what's best for her and I can't figure out what that is.

I did read a little on the Bonecancerdogs.org website and it appears that they use radiation along with other treatments. Not sure about doing the radiation part. Not even sure any of the local vets can even do radiation therapy.

I'm learning about things I never wanted to learn. Hard to absorb all of it.

I'm so sorry for you too. If it were me, I would not choose to amputate if lung mets were already visible, but I sway a little to the non-amputation side anyway. I do think that 1 year statistic would be considered generous by some vets - I often hear/read 8-12 months - although 1 yr may be what Dr. Couto reports. I see most of the dogs on here (and this is of course very unscientific) get about 6 months, other than those rare few like Darcy and Winslow who seem to beat it entirely.

 

Unfortunately radiation is directed at the particular tumor site so while it can relieve pain from the main lesion, it won't help with any ill effects from the lung mets if that's what you have. The same is true of the pamidronate - it will only help with the bone lesion(s). Of course, the bone lesion will also be the major source of pain and will probably progress faster than the lung mets will anyway. My oncologist told me that both IV pamidronate and palliative radiation can each give about 2 additional months on average of good quality of life.

 

I live in the DC metro area so treatments here are quite expensive - radiation would be $600/treatment so $1200 in total over 2 days (thankfully if we ever pursue this, I have double cancer coverage under VPI that will cover these treatments completely). The pamidronate treatments were as stated above, about $200-300 each, but when you add on a blood panel and U/A to check kidney values beforehand and x-rays, it was going to cost me closer to $700-800/treatment. I know Kristin is doing them without x-rays though and honestly, my vet wanted to do lung x-rays b/c he figured we would stop treatment once mets developed so that's something you'd likely have no need for.

 

If I were you, I would start an "aggressive" artemisinin regimen asap. There are generally no side effects from it and it's been found to be safe at levels much higher than you would ever approach giving (except if you give artemether, where you have to be somewhat careful), and it would hit the cancer everywhere in teh body. Basically, I think there's no harm in trying except for cost (initial investment depending on whether you decided to do one or multiple forms would be from $50-150 for a multiple month supply) and it could help. You have to order online from one of two sources, but both ship their products quickly.

 

Hang in there.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Rose will be going in the morning- tonight if she gets any worse

[Guest azlorenz]

Good Evening to my fellow cancer warriors. I am so sorry to hear of the recent diagnosis, losses and struggles of those currently fighting this nasty stuff. Good news seems to be hard to find these days. However, Flash has his 3rd chemo under his belt and is doing well. His kidney enzymes were up a bit but we've changed his dog food now to a lower protein. Keep your fingers crossed -- his next chemo is Oct. 19 and we do the ever dreaded chest films then as well.

 

We're all hoping it cools off a bit here (just below 100 degrees plese) so we can start our walks in the daylight rather than the wee hours of the mornings. Me and my 3-legged dog were run home by the javelina on our walk this morning. But I did find out that my Flashyman is still speedy.

 

As I said Flash is doing well, however, his fellow cancer warrior Robb (my niece's husband) is not. He has just completed a rather brutal course of chemo and has had us all worried sick. This is a link to his Caring Bridge page if you care to take a look at his Leukemia story.

 

My link

 

If you all could spare a few prayers for Robb they would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hugs to all,

 

Shannon

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

We are leaving shortly. I am numb. I can't believe this is happening

[Guest azlorenz]

We are leaving shortly. I am numb. I can't believe this is happening

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

She's gone.

[Charlies_Dad]

She's gone.

 

I am so very very sorry. I saw your remembrance post, she was very lucky to have found you.

[Charlies_Dad]

 

It appears we have lung mets. *sigh* And that is the part that is making me rethink everything. When the orthopedic surgeon isn't encouraging me to pursue amp/chemo, it does give me pause.

It's all such a crap shoot and I hate that. I just want to do what's best for her and I can't figure out what that is.

I did read a little on the Bonecancerdogs.org website and it appears that they use radiation along with other treatments. Not sure about doing the radiation part. Not even sure any of the local vets can even do radiation therapy.

I'm learning about things I never wanted to learn. Hard to absorb all of it.

 

I sent you a PM on considering Palladia. It has shown some promise with battling mets as I know Dr. Coutu recommends it and I know of one pup who had mets and lived many months comfortably. Radiation is another option however does it help with mets? I know it can reduce the tumor for a period of time.

 

 

Good Evening to my fellow cancer warriors. I am so sorry to hear of the recent diagnosis, losses and struggles of those currently fighting this nasty stuff. Good news seems to be hard to find these days. However, Flash has his 3rd chemo under his belt and is doing well. His kidney enzymes were up a bit but we've changed his dog food now to a lower protein. Keep your fingers crossed -- his next chemo is Oct. 19 and we do the ever dreaded chest films then as well.

 

We're all hoping it cools off a bit here (just below 100 degrees plese) so we can start our walks in the daylight rather than the wee hours of the mornings. Me and my 3-legged dog were run home by the javelina on our walk this morning. But I did find out that my Flashyman is still speedy.

 

As I said Flash is doing well, however, his fellow cancer warrior Robb (my niece's husband) is not. He has just completed a rather brutal course of chemo and has had us all worried sick. This is a link to his Caring Bridge page if you care to take a look at his Leukemia story.

 

My link

 

If you all could spare a few prayers for Robb they would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hugs to all,

 

Shannon

 

Shannon, I am happy that Flash is doing well but am sorry to hear that Robb is not fairing well. He is a warrior though and will pull through. Chemo on humans is brutal but in the long-term if it can rid him of this terrible disease, then everything will be okay. We'll be thinking of you and Robb as well as Flash of course.

[Guest jenmm]

She's gone.

I'm sorry.