Osteo Diagnosis

[Guest ChasesMum]

awww honey, we are all crying with you, please know that! chase too followed me to the bathroom. If it wasnt her, it was (is) one of the kids! I feel some regret as well, that we didnt do all the things we could have had we known earlier. However, you can do many of the things now that Bing can enjoy today. Its not worth it to live in regret-land, you will miss what is more important - today and enjoying each day as they come.

 

I suppose it can rupture through the skin, though skin can sretch a LONG way before it tears. i lost a hedgehog to hemangiosarcoma (muscle tumor) and he had literally a tumor about 1/4 his body size. he was extra spikey over that lump!

 

Maybe before you hehad to the shower (or wherever you need to be) walk around some, get up and pet him, leave the room, come back, go get a glass of water, come back, pet him, go get your stuff ready, come back, pet him, go get in the shower.... or some form of reassuring him that he doesnt need to follow you right now. silly man :wub

[Charlies_Dad]

Kiki, I am terribly sorry to hear that Bing has been diagnosed. To answer your question and unfortunately this honestly will hurt, I believe the pain will become unbearable for Bing before the tumor can grow too large so your concern should be pain management and not to worry about the tumor rupturing the skin. If you haven't already, speak to your vet about how you can increase the Tramadol or look at including an NSAID in order to stay ahead of the pain. Also as Teri stated, the other concern is the bone can become brittle enough that he may break his leg. You will have to keep him from running and jumping because it could happen easily depending on how eaten away the bone is.

 

Like my Charlie, Bing is too young to have this disease and we are here to help in any way we can. Give Bing a hug from me.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Charlies_Dad

[NeylasMom]

Kiki, I'm so very sorry you are facing this too. And please don't think you sound crazy, we all go through the same range of emtoions at some point after learning of this dx - I think I can say with certainty that we all know how you feel and have felt the same things at some point or another.

 

I can particularly identify with the guilt. Thankfully, I have had 3 really good months with Neyla so I've been able to move past that and spoil her silly. I will still always feel some regret that I let other things get in teh way of doing my utmost for her, but I am REALY trying to focus on appreciating the time we do have. Neyla is happier than I've seen her in some time because I am focusing more attention on her and I'm sure that there are things that you can still do too. For instance, Neyla is getting a lot more ice cream these days and licking a lot more plates, our walks are more about stopping and letting her sniff every spot for as long as she wants, adn we play puzzle toys that don't require a lot of moving around.

 

Kyle already said a lot of what I would have in terms of practical advice, but I wanted to add that bone cancer is supposedly very painful and given that it sounds like Bing has lung mets, the cancer is probably pretty far progressed. I do not think that Tramadol alone is sufficient for pain management. Talk to your vet about an NSAID for certain, and also possibly gabapentin. There is a neurological aspect to the pain as well that Gabapentin will help address. Also, Tramadol can be given 3x/day instead of just 2, I would switch to that regimen if you aren't already on it.

[Sirocco_Nikki]

Kiki, As the others have said, I would not worry about the tumor pushing through the skin. Sirocco's tumor was the size of a large fist at the end and it never ruptured (even though he had stitches at the biopsy site). Also, pain control is what matters right now. Our vet said to give him tramadol whenever he needed it along with a rimadyl 2x day. We were giving Sirocco 2 tramadols every 4 hours at the end. The vet said we could try morphine or a similar narcotic if the pain could not be controlled; however, it would probably make him groggy and unable to function or walk safely. Some dogs pant a lot with tramadol but we found a bit of vanilla ice cream cured that quickly. Sirocco also had a strawberry shortcake with whippy cream every evening too.

 

Safety is your next priority. Sirocco's leg (right front)swelled tremendously the last week and the leg became useless. I kept a towel close by, especially when he went potty, in case I needed to use it as a sling to help him move. And yet, he scared 3 years off my life a couple times when he tried to run.

 

Also, please don't worry about being rational. There is nothing rational or reasonable about this hideous disease that is stealing our dogs. You need to take care of your pup but you also need to take care of you. In my case, fixing Sirocco strawberry shortcakes every night brought me 15 minutes of peace. I gave him his Interceptor a couple days before he went to the bridge. Rational? No. Did I care? No. Find comfort and peace wherever you can.

[Batmom]

Kiki, my heart goes out to you. One last piece of advice you don't want: Don't look back. Bing isn't -- he has no regrets at all about what he could have done. He only cares about now. Being with you, having a little ice cream -- those are the sorts of things he cares about. Sending many hugs.

[Guest azlorenz]

Kiki, my heart goes out to you. One last piece of advice you don't want: Don't look back. Bing isn't -- he has no regrets at all about what he could have done. He only cares about now. Being with you, having a little ice cream -- those are the sorts of things he cares about. Sending many hugs.

 

What wonderful advice. And every word of it is so true. I find myself having to refocus so much on this journey and remember to live for today and don't look towards tomorrow.

 

On another similar note, my nephew-in-law has moved out of ICU and is now in the Bone Marrow Transplant unit. He got to see his little girls (4 & 2) today for 10 min in the lobby. It is the last time they will physically be together for 4 weeks. 1 week of 24-7 chemo and 3 weeks in a clean tent as chemo will kill anything and everything protecting him from disease. As you can guess from where he has been moved, he will be having a bone marrow transplant after the 4 week period. I've tried to give my niece all the words of wisdom I've learned from you all. Although his outcome is hopefully different than ours, the same support system applies. As we know, all things happen for a reason and maybe, just maybe, this happened so that I could help my niece get through this.

[Guest kiki_13]

Hello everyone - Shannon, I am so sorry to hear of your n-i-l, . . . life is such a journey and full of trial, tribulation and tests, both physically and mentally.

 

I am worried regarding Bing perhaps not being on sufficient pain meds - I have a call into my vet with all of the meds you good people have mentioned in the past posts. After all, it is a painful process and I have chosen pain management. I have quit obsessing re skin splitting and an now obssessed with bone breakage, I think I will have it xrayed again later this week for signs of progression. I don't know what I will do if it has honeycombed. ?

 

Is that the end? Bing has had some really ggreat days the past few days - after reading all of these posts I realize a lot of his behavior is stemming from the tramadol. ie., panting, huge pupils, acting a little high . . .

 

Anyway, I'm on the site several times a day now, as I am a bookkeeper and have talked with my clients, except for one, to let me do their books from home. Thank god for that!

[NeylasMom]

Kiki, there are other pain management options - namely the IV pamidronate, oral fosamax, and palliative radiation. You do have to weigh the risk that those treatments help the pain, but don't slow the progression so in theory you are more likely to have a break as you progress. My radiation oncologist insists that there is currently no evidence that this is true, but to me, it's common sense.

 

Regarding the panting, etc. perhaps if you get him on an NSAID, you can lower the Tramadol dose and have a better idea whether those things are side effects of the Tramadol or signs of pain. I feel somewhat strongly that NSAIDs are more effective pain mgt than Tramadol (although ideally you use both since Tramadol is generally thought of as being "safer").

 

It really depends on what risks you consider worthwhile to have more time. And it may change as things progress. I feel like my outlook has changed a bit - I'm a little more willing to deal with some mild side effects from meds since Neyla is so happy otherwise, and I may be willing to try the pamidronate down the road and risk the kidney side effects, which I was straying away from 2 months ago. Just take it day by day and enjoy the time you have - says the champion worrier.

[Guest ktarantino]

Hi All,

Update on Freddy. He is now on Tramadol and deramax and three different herbs. Plus we changed his diet to low carb high protein..been doing well but then had diarrhea today, anyone else experience that?

[NeylasMom]

Hi All,

Update on Freddy. He is now on Tramadol and deramax and three different herbs. Plus we changed his diet to low carb high protein..been doing well but then had diarrhea today, anyone else experience that?

No diarrhea here, but Neyla was already on raw and I was careful to introduce the supplements slowly, starting at lower dosages and increasing, then adding the next one, etc.. I waited about 2 days in b/w each increase or intro. We did end up with a strange stool consistency problem, but no urgency to go out, normal bowel movements, just soft. I think I've finally figured out that it's the really high dose of fish oil I have her on. Going to see a holistic vet on Thursday and will discuss what to do.

 

 

Quick Neyla update - since I was no longer suspecting the arte as the source of Neyla's stool problems I decided to jump right into the cycling protocol from the artemisinin group. Last night was day 5 and so far so good in terms of her stomach at least. This weekend I felt like Neyla was still off a bit, limping slightly or stiff/sore when she'd get up and we were still giving an extra 25 mg of Tramadol at bedtime so I decided to just give her 50 at bedtime so she's now on 50 mg 3x/day and 25 mg of Deramaxx 1x/day. I realized that I was trying SO hard not to up her medication dosages b/c it means things are progressing, but potentially to her detriment (pain) so I got over it. Last night and this morning she was much more playful and interested in longer walks again. Hopefully the increase we made is sufficient for a while. :hope

 

How is everyone else doing? It's been pretty quiet in here lately. I suppose no news is good news in our cases.

 

Shannon, best wishes for your nephew. It must be so difficult to not only have to go through cancer treatment, but to be separated from your family.

[Guest roselle]

[quote naHime=NeylasMom'Hi all. Gracy is doing all right. She has an appt. At u c Davis on ties. To see if she qualifies for amputation and an investigational study. She is 11 up so they may not do it. I cry every day thinking about not having her with us. I'm just so sad for her that she has to go through this . I am so sorry there are so many of you out there also dealing with this . This group is so helpful fore me and I thank you all.

 

Gracy's

mom. Roselle date='17 August 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1282069184' post='4659782]

Hi All,

Update on Freddy. He is now on Tramadol and deramax and three different herbs. Plus we changed his diet to low carb high protein..been doing well but then had diarrhea today, anyone else experience that?

No diarrhea here, but Neyla was already on raw and I was careful to introduce the supplements slowly, starting at lower dosages and increasing, then adding the next one, etc.. I waited about 2 days in b/w each increase or intro. We did end up with a strange stool consistency problem, but no urgency to go out, normal bowel movements, just soft. I think I've finally figured out that it's the really high dose of fish oil I have her on. Going to see a holistic vet on Thursday and will discuss what to do.

 

 

Quick Neyla update - since I was no longer suspecting the arte as the source of Neyla's stool problems I decided to jump right into the cycling protocol from the artemisinin group. Last night was day 5 and so far so good in terms of her stomach at least. This weekend I felt like Neyla was still off a bit, limping slightly or stiff/sore when she'd get up and we were still giving an extra 25 mg of Tramadol at bedtime so I decided to just give her 50 at bedtime so she's now on 50 mg 3x/day and 25 mg of Deramaxx 1x/day. I realized that I was trying SO hard not to up her medication dosages b/c it means things are progressing, but potentially to her detriment (pain) so I got over it. Last night and this morning she was much more playful and interested in longer walks again. Hopefully the increase we made is sufficient for a while. :hope

 

How is everyone else doing? It's been pretty quiet in here lately. I suppose no news is good news in our cases.

 

Shannon, best wishes for your nephew. It must be so difficult to not only have to go through cancer treatment, but to be separated from your family.

[teri_d]

Hi All,

Update on Freddy. He is now on Tramadol and deramax and three different herbs. Plus we changed his diet to low carb high protein..been doing well but then had diarrhea today, anyone else experience that?

 

rivie had big bout of dirrhea a couple weeks ago - really took it out of her. it came on out of the blue - we did call the vet and got her meds for it and it went away as fast as it came on - we haven't a clue what caused it. good to start reading updates again. i was getting too depressed to look for a couple days!!!!! charlie -- go get the magic juice tomorrow and make that cancer go away!!!! we'll be thinking of you! rivie has been a bit off - but we had bad storms here last night. she has always been storm phobic, but the last several years she has found her safe place and done pretty well - last night she acted like she did when we first got her - shaking and panting and restless and crying -- so hopefully she is just tired today (i know i am!!!) you know you all are in my prayers! scritches!!

[nyGreys]

Hello everyone.

First I want to send lots of hugs & prayers to all of you & your babies.

Second, it took me 2 days to get through all the posts, I would read a couple & cry, read a

couple more & cry.

I am so sorry for everyone's loss & for everyone who is going through this horrible time.

I really wish I didn't have a reason to join you all, but I do. About 2 weeks ago Abby started limping,

so we went to the vet, he gave her some meloxicam, but it didn't help so we took her for x rays yesterday, &

vet called with the devastating news, osteo in her shoulder. She is on Tramadol but it don't seem to be doing anything.

I'm waiting for the vet to call now to see if I can give her something more. I can't stand to see her in pain.

Again, I am so sorry you & your pups are going through this horrible disease.

 

For the hounds that we have lost....:brokenheart

 

Dee

[teri_d]

Hello everyone.

First I want to send lots of hugs & prayers to all of you & your babies.

Second, it took me 2 days to get through all the posts, I would read a couple & cry, read a

couple more & cry.

I am so sorry for everyone's loss & for everyone who is going through this horrible time.

I really wish I didn't have a reason to join you all, but I do. About 2 weeks ago Abby started limping,

so we went to the vet, he gave her some meloxicam, but it didn't help so we took her for x rays yesterday, &

vet called with the devastating news, osteo in her shoulder. She is on Tramadol but it don't seem to be doing anything.

I'm waiting for the vet to call now to see if I can give her something more. I can't stand to see her in pain.

Again, I am so sorry you & your pups are going through this horrible disease.

 

For the hounds that we have lost....:brokenheart

 

Dee

dee - we are so sorry you have joined us. if you have read through the thread you have found lots of great advice. my vet said rivie could have tramadol whenever she acted like she needed it - she also gets gabapentin in the am & pm. you might read the sutra thread - it is a shoulder osteo as well, and it's been 4 months!! neyla's mom is a great resource - 3 months for her! they help us out tremendously. but you will find great support and understanding here - so we are glad that you found us - feel free to cry/rant/rave whatever - we get it. give abby scritches and hugs and do what we all do - love them!

[Guest azlorenz]

Hello everyone.

First I want to send lots of hugs & prayers to all of you & your babies.

Second, it took me 2 days to get through all the posts, I would read a couple & cry, read a

couple more & cry.

I am so sorry for everyone's loss & for everyone who is going through this horrible time.

I really wish I didn't have a reason to join you all, but I do. About 2 weeks ago Abby started limping,

so we went to the vet, he gave her some meloxicam, but it didn't help so we took her for x rays yesterday, &

vet called with the devastating news, osteo in her shoulder. She is on Tramadol but it don't seem to be doing anything.

I'm waiting for the vet to call now to see if I can give her something more. I can't stand to see her in pain.

Again, I am so sorry you & your pups are going through this horrible disease.

 

For the hounds that we have lost....:brokenheart

 

Dee

 

Oh no!!!!!!!!! I am so very sorry. Cancer Stinks. Welcome to our club, I'm sorry you have joined us. But, no matter what we are here for each other.

Edited August 18, 2010 by azlorenz

[NeylasMom]

Dee, I'm so sorry for you and your Abby. Neyla's osteo is in her shoulder as well, front left. You can safely give Tramadol and NSAIDS like Meloxicam together so I wouldn't wait for your vet to call you back if she's in a lot of pain. You can also give the Tramadol 3x/day to get extra relief.

 

Have you decided yet what you'll do? We're doing pain mgt and holistic treatments only, as I'm sure you've read. Not sure if Neyla is doing well b/c they are doing something or we got "lucky" with a slow progressing lesion. I'm happy to share any info I can about the holistic stuff, feel free to PM me if you have questions or post here. There are some other folks on here who can answer those types of questions as well.

 

If this is your first time going through this, I think the Bone Cancer Dogs page I've linked to before is an excellent resource to get an overview of osteo and all of the treatment options right off of the bat.

[Batmom]

{{{{{{{{{{Dee}}}}}}}}}} As others have noted, the good thing about Tramadol is that you can safely use other meds with it. Give your girl a kiss for me, OK? And hugs for yourself.

[Charlies_Dad]

Dee, I am sorry to hear of Abby's diagnosis, it's one of the worst things to hear. We are all here for you and Abby and whatever you need, we will do our best to assist.

 

 

Kyle

[nyGreys]

dee - we are so sorry you have joined us. if you have read through the thread you have found lots of great advice. my vet said rivie could have tramadol whenever she acted like she needed it - she also gets gabapentin in the am & pm. you might read the sutra thread - it is a shoulder osteo as well, and it's been 4 months!! neyla's mom is a great resource - 3 months for her! they help us out tremendously. but you will find great support and understanding here - so we are glad that you found us - feel free to cry/rant/rave whatever - we get it. give abby scritches and hugs and do what we all do - love them!

Thank you for the support. I know everyone here understands what we're all going through.

 

Dee, I'm so sorry for you and your Abby. Neyla's osteo is in her shoulder as well, front left. You can safely give Tramadol and NSAIDS like Meloxicam together so I wouldn't wait for your vet to call you back if she's in a lot of pain. You can also give the Tramadol 3x/day to get extra relief.

 

Have you decided yet what you'll do? We're doing pain mgt and holistic treatments only, as I'm sure you've read. Not sure if Neyla is doing well b/c they are doing something or we got "lucky" with a slow progressing lesion. I'm happy to share any info I can about the holistic stuff, feel free to PM me if you have questions or post here. There are some other folks on here who can answer those types of questions as well.

 

If this is your first time going through this, I think the Bone Cancer Dogs page I've linked to before is an excellent resource to get an overview of osteo and all of the treatment options right off of the bat.

Thank you for your help, & yes, it's my first time dealing with this horrible disease, I know nothing about it.

We're doing the pain mgt to.

My vet called last night around 9:00 & she said I could give her the meloxicam & tramadol. I didn't see your

post til now. Yesterday Abby wouldn't put hardly any weight on her leg, she would actually drag her foot sometimes,

but after giving her the meloxicam with the tramadol last night, she seemed to walk a little better this morning.

 

 

I'm glad I can come here when I have a question. Thanks.

Give your pups a kiss for me.

 

How is everyone doing this morning?

 

Thank you, Jey & Kyle.

Edited August 18, 2010 by nyGreys

[teri_d]

dee - please don't feel like you have to have a question to come here -- sometimes i just need a strong shoulder or somebody who understands - and that is ALWAYS found here - anytime of the night kyle -- what time is charlie's chemo today?? i've been thinking of him! how is flash-y doing today - i'm thinking UP wbc today!! today is the 2 month anniversary of when i saw 'the lump'

[CaliforniaGreys]

Our little Abby

 

I am glad to see you posted Dee, the information and support from people going through the same thing will prove invaluable.

 

You will never be alone

[Charlies_Dad]

kyle -- what time is charlie's chemo today?? i've been thinking of him! how is flash-y doing today - i'm thinking UP wbc today!! today is the 2 month anniversary of when i saw 'the lump'

 

Teri,

 

Charlie just left for his Chemo for 9am today. Once done, he'll have his ice cream right after as he is such a good boy at the vet.

 

Two months since the lump appeared, you are obviously doing something right for Rivie! Let's keep the positive thoughts and keep the months coming.

[NeylasMom]

dee - please don't feel like you have to have a question to come here -- sometimes i just need a strong shoulder or somebody who understands - and that is ALWAYS found here - anytime of the night kyle -- what time is charlie's chemo today?? i've been thinking of him! how is flash-y doing today - i'm thinking UP wbc today!! today is the 2 month anniversary of when i saw 'the lump'

2 months! You keep going girl!!

 

Kyle, for a second uneventful chemo treatment. I love that Charlie gets ice cream afterward. I told Neyla last week she could have ice cream but I haven't gotten around to getting it! Will have to do that sometime this weekend. We leave tonight or early tomorrow for Pgh - it's my grandmother's 95th birthday - and staying in a strange place is always a bit stressful for Neyla so ice cream will definitely help.

 

Dee, here's that website if you want to take a look: Bone Cancer Dogs

[Charlies_Dad]

Just thought I would send an updated pic of Charlie enjoying a chair he decided looked comfortable...for some reason the pic is not appearing. I'll try again.

 

And again.

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2010 by Charlies_Dad

[NeylasMom]

Aww, Charlie. How did his chemo go?