Osteo Diagnosis

[teri_d]

so glad puck ate a good dinner!!!!!!!

carol - for your basket i will make a lightweight fleece coat & ship to you. i've been making them for halfway home greyhounds (our group) fundraisers for several years and rivie has always been my coat model for photos - i am not a professional seamstress!! i have never sold a coat - they are only for donation!!! rivie scared us a bit this weekend - she exhibited some weakness in her backend. i was feeling pretty good after her vet check last thursday - so this let me know that we just don't know day to day what will come. it seems to have passed, but we are watching very close.

[Guest azlorenz]

so glad puck ate a good dinner!!!!!!!

carol - for your basket i will make a lightweight fleece coat & ship to you. i've been making them for halfway home greyhounds (our group) fundraisers for several years and rivie has always been my coat model for photos - i am not a professional seamstress!! i have never sold a coat - they are only for donation!!! rivie scared us a bit this weekend - she exhibited some weakness in her backend. i was feeling pretty good after her vet check last thursday - so this let me know that we just don't know day to day what will come. it seems to have passed, but we are watching very close.

 

Enjoy each minute we have them.

[NeylasMom]

Good boy Puck!! You keep on eating those delicious meals mom is making.

 

Regarding how much, for raw you are supposed to feed 2-3% of their body weight each week - not sure hwo different that would be from cooked food, but it would at lesat give you a place to start. For a 70 lb dog, this would be about 1 1/2 - 2 lbs per day. Raw does have a lot of water so take that into consideration.

 

I need to catch up on teh thread a bit, but in the meantime, here's a quickie tidbit. I stopped Neyla's arte 2 nights ago so she hasn't had it since Thursday night and today she had a totally normal poop. For the first time in about 2 months! Yesterday morning it was almost liquid and tehn I fed chk last night, which would not normally do much to firm it up, but today, AM & PM both totally normal raw dry poo!! We'll see, it's only one day, but I really think it must have been teh arte doing it. Which is good b/c at least I'll know, bu bad b/c well, it's the arte and I plan to put her back on it.

[Batmom]

For cooked meat, most greyhound-sized dogs would need (precooked weight) 1 - 2 lbs of meat, depending on amount of fat and on other things fed. If you Google "USDA nutrient database," you can use their search to find the calories in just about anything. The search is cumbersome but it'll give you a ballpark idea. Most not terribly active greyhounds should be getting 1200-1600 calories per day; more for big boys, towards the high end or above if sick and trying to heal.

[Guest azlorenz]

Good boy Puck!! You keep on eating those delicious meals mom is making.

 

Regarding how much, for raw you are supposed to feed 2-3% of their body weight each week - not sure hwo different that would be from cooked food, but it would at lesat give you a place to start. For a 70 lb dog, this would be about 1 1/2 - 2 lbs per day. Raw does have a lot of water so take that into consideration.

 

I need to catch up on teh thread a bit, but in the meantime, here's a quickie tidbit. I stopped Neyla's arte 2 nights ago so she hasn't had it since Thursday night and today she had a totally normal poop. For the first time in about 2 months! Yesterday morning it was almost liquid and tehn I fed chk last night, which would not normally do much to firm it up, but today, AM & PM both totally normal raw dry poo!! We'll see, it's only one day, but I really think it must have been teh arte doing it. Which is good b/c at least I'll know, bu bad b/c well, it's the arte and I plan to put her back on it.

 

 

 

Fingers crossed for firm pooh on a regular basis : ()

[Guest ChasesMum]

So, since Puck will not eat kibble, I took everyone's advice and cooked. I made ground beef and turkey, a little molasses, some carrot and spinach and noodles. He loved it and licked his bowl clean - I added about a quarter cup of kibble which he also ate. Question is - how much of this type of food should I give him. He usually gets 2 cups of kibble, but I've no idea how much to feed him with home cooking.

 

with Chase I added as much soaked kibble as I felt she would eat and at least that amount in cooked. I fed her 3-4 times a day at the end, so 1/3c-1/2c soaked kibble, and 1/2-3/4 cooked/canned/addins or thereabouts. I didnt look too far into supplements and things for vitamin content because I knew she was in her last week(s) and I didnt want to worry about that on top of her dozen pills a day (seriously! i fed her 8 pills in the morning alone )

 

I need to catch up on teh thread a bit, but in the meantime, here's a quickie tidbit. I stopped Neyla's arte 2 nights ago so she hasn't had it since Thursday night and today she had a totally normal poop. For the first time in about 2 months! Yesterday morning it was almost liquid and tehn I fed chk last night, which would not normally do much to firm it up, but today, AM & PM both totally normal raw dry poo!! We'll see, it's only one day, but I really think it must have been teh arte doing it. Which is good b/c at least I'll know, bu bad b/c well, it's the arte and I plan to put her back on it.

hmmm maybe when you start it again add in probiotics or pumpkin or something?

[Guest ChasesMum]

I am going to make up a basket for the Hope for Hounds auction in honor of the 7.5 dogs. I would like to include favorite things of each of the 7.5 dogs in the basket. Could you please pm me with some of your dogs favorite things? If anyone has a good dog cookie recipe, that would be great also.

 

Let's go kick some cancer butt!

 

aww! what a great idea!

 

Chase's fav thing (other than anything edible!) was her stuffed, very tattered, cat who we called 'scum cat'. it went to be cremated with her.

[NeylasMom]

Catching up a bit...

 

Thank you Neylasmom for the link, I will check that out. How is your pup feeling without amputation and chemo...and to all of you, how did you find out your dogs had this, did they have an injury like Freddy did?

 

Also, would anyone be willing to share how much these various options cost.

Thanks

I found out b/c Neyla started limping really badly one day out of the blue. I knew she couldn't have done anything to cause a muscle injury. Given that and her age, I immediately suspected osteo. Unfortunately my regular vet failed to dx it via x-ray, but I took her to my ortho who was able to take better x-rays and caught it. Regarding how Neyla is feeling, she's doing really well. Thursday will officially be 3 months since her diagnosis, but I think it's important to point out that we seem to be a rare exception in terms of how well she is doing. If you search back, you will find a thread I started asking for people whose dogs made it past 3 months with only palliative care and there are very few although I think with the addition of some new/better pain mgt options and some holistic treatments, these numbers will continue to improve. Regarding cost, I have learned that costs vary dramatically depending on where you live and whether you seek treatment through your regular vet or a specialist. The estimate I received for an FNA (they were requiring anesthesia - we never did it) was $800!! IV pamidronate treatment alone with our specialist (supposedly the best of the best in the DC metro area so $$$) is $200-300, but that does not include any pre-treatment x-rays or blood work. They like to do blood work to check kidney values and x-rays of both the leg to check progression and her lungs to check for mets. If I chose to do all of that, the estimate was closer to $700-800/treatment every 3-4 weeks. Palliative radiation was going to cost me $1600 for the 2 necessary treatments I believe, but I have pet insurance that would cover that completely under my double cancer coverage. The holistic stuff is obviously less expensive. I don't actually know what I spend monthly on supplements. The artemisinin is probably the priciest and depending on the dosages you choose could run $50-100/mo. I believe I'm currently spending about $45/mo on my arte but I am at the lower end of the spectrum dosagewise right now.

 

Charlie's 'stump' I believe is standard as there is no bone remaining, that is muscle. I read the post amp report and it detailed how they removed the leg plus all the other nasty stuff...now I know why I decided against being a doctor . I am glad Neyla seems to be doing better and I know what you mean by stopping the Art regimen. Are you doing the 5 day on, 5 day off or 10 day on 10 days off? I have read several cycling regimens and am a little confused over the best if there is one. Once we are through Chemo, we'll start it up.

Thanks for the info about the amp. I'm not sure what cycling we're going ot do. Ultimately, stomach issues withstanding, I want her on the regimen where you cycle b/w arte and curcumin - it's a 10 day cycle that includes some days off of arte where she would get only curcumin and then you can choose to take an additional 1-3 days off b/w cycles. Right now, I thought I might do 7 days on, 3 days off until I get the arte dosages back up. I was only using artemisinin and artemether before too and I want to introduce artesunate or switch that for the artemether if that turns out to be the stomach issue causer.

 

I am going to make up a basket for the Hope for Hounds auction in honor of the 7.5 dogs. I would like to include favorite things of each of the 7.5 dogs in the basket. Could you please pm me with some of your dogs favorite things? If anyone has a good dog cookie recipe, that would be great also.

 

Let's go kick some cancer butt!

This is a really nice idea. Neyla especially loves toys that make good grunting or squawker type noises like the hedgehog and Burpdog biskies!

Edited August 9, 2010 by NeylasMom

[Guest ktarantino]

Well we got an appointment with another vet that was highly recommended. We are looking for a second opinion and now that the initial shock has [ased we want to learn more about options. The doc we are seeing is also into holistic medicine so that could be helpful. We are leaning towards pain management vs amp and chemo...but it so gut wrenching to think about. Emotionally, financially, physically etc i don't know if we could go the amp route..but I feel a tremendous amount of sadness and guilt in that. I mean he is only 7. But we have a beautiful 2 year old daughter and are hoping to have another child..we have to consider all that would be effected in this decision. Again, this is so tough..I am kinda of just typing to get some of my thoughts out of my head to help process. Thank you for all of your posts current and past, I continue to read through them for support and assurance.

[Guest azlorenz]

[Guest ChasesMum]

Well we got an appointment with another vet that was highly recommended. We are looking for a second opinion and now that the initial shock has [ased we want to learn more about options. The doc we are seeing is also into holistic medicine so that could be helpful. We are leaning towards pain management vs amp and chemo...but it so gut wrenching to think about. Emotionally, financially, physically etc i don't know if we could go the amp route..but I feel a tremendous amount of sadness and guilt in that. I mean he is only 7. But we have a beautiful 2 year old daughter and are hoping to have another child..we have to consider all that would be effected in this decision. Again, this is so tough..I am kinda of just typing to get some of my thoughts out of my head to help process. Thank you for all of your posts current and past, I continue to read through them for support and assurance.

 

that's where we were exactly when george was diagnosed. our dd was nearly 2 and we were trying again. we did amp but no chemo because we couldnt afford it, and because the logistics were insane. and 4 mos later when he passed i was 7-8w pregnant. you do what you can, with what you have, and the sad truth is you can throw money at this endlessly but there isnt a cure. not usually. *hugs* we all have had the same thoughts!

[NeylasMom]

So how are everyone's pups doing this morning?

 

We have a good report. Neyla has been back to her usual happy, playful, silly self the last 2 days. I was going to stop the extra bedtime Tramadol last night, but we had a really active day - she decided we should go for a nice long walk in the morning ad it was her gotcha' day so there was a lot of extra playing and a visit from her favorite pal, Uncle Dave so I decided to give it one more night. I won't tonight and will see what happens. If she needs to be on the slightly higher dosage now that's fine, but I don't want to give it unnecessarily.

 

The mixed report is we've had squirty and runny poo again so I don't think it's the artemisinin after all. Good because I'm ready to start her back on it and won't have to worry that that's the problem, bad b/c I don't know what is the problem, but if this is the worst problem we're dealing with, I'm pretty happy.

 

If you guys didn't catch it, I posted a thread for Neyla in EEG yesterday, including a little video of her playing in the morning.

[teri_d]

oh so glad neyla is more herself!! hey runny poo and greyhounds go together like - well, runny poo and greyhounds! rivie has had a couple bouts of big d as well - she is doing ok today - but from episodes of "stuff" that come on all of a sudden out of the blue, i know that i cherish every second! hope all the other os club members are doing ok today, too - hugs to you all. prayers with apollo & his skin folk - our thoughts are with you for strength today -

[Guest ChasesMum]

hugs to everyone this morning!!

[Charlies_Dad]

Jen, I loved the video of Neyla!!! She is so sweet. That's great news she is doing well.

 

Teri, good news that Rivie is doing 'OK', that's still good in my books.

 

Charlie is doing well even though I am not home to see him. I'll be working from home next week though. We are very confused over starting Artemisinin or not. The holistic vet we met today, states that in Europe they give it with Chemo. We also have read that it can actually enhance it so we are confused as we know OSU does not recommend it. I just wish there was one good way to treat this horrid disease but it appears there are many paths one can go down.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Charlies_Dad

[Guest ChasesMum]

hmm even with humans there are many paths... aargh! will OSU be upset if you start Arte sooner than later? like will they cut you off kinda mad? ultimatley i think its your decision. I upped Chase's doxy (had I done it from the start would it have helped more? I will never know) and of course we are all free to up the pain killer dose for our dogs as we see fit. So it kinda goes with the arte too in my books.

 

scratch a hound for me..i miss the soft fur and velvet ears. sigh

[NeylasMom]

Kyle, I would not base my decisions about artemisinin on OSU's recs. Are you ont eh artemisinin_and_cancer yahoo group? There have been a lot of threads in teh last couple of months about using it with chemo. I haven't paid close attention b/c Neyla isn't doing chemo, but I think it's starting to become more widely accepted that you can use both. I think it may also depend on which chemo drugs you choose. There is also SO much more info there about how to use it beyond the 100 mg/day that OSU recommends, which is really behind the times if you ask me. I just downloaded a copy of Dr. Dressler's book from that site and printed it - going to dig in soon. He has info about a lot of other holistic options.

 

Neyla was so wound up when I got home as I worked a long day today. She ran around like a maniac. When she got up a little bit ago, she was stiff and a bit gimpy so I guess we're not stopping the extra Tram after all. I am trying not to get carried away with the worrying, but I am getting scared...

 

Tonight is her last night off the arte. I ordered extra supplements today too so I can start the arte/curcumin cycling regimen. I am anxious to get her on it.

[Guest azlorenz]

Just checkin in. All is well here. Flash is more his normal self this week than any of the past few weeks. His anxiety and anxiousness has seemed to disappear somewhat. Any sign of the rash he had this weekend is totally gone now. Thank goodness.

 

Glad to hear Neyla is feeling better, runny poo or not.

 

Glad to hear Rivie and Charlie are doing well also.

 

Kyle, I hear on the whole to supplement or not to supplement during chemo.

 

Hope you are all having a wonderful evening and a better week than last.

[Charlies_Dad]

Thanks everyone for your input on starting Artemisinin or not on Chemo. We decided to move forward yesterday and start him on it because our hoslitic vet said yes to start, we contacted some specialists in Europe and they said yes (our holistic vet is from the UK and gave us some contacts there as well as California). So we are going to do everything possible and we don't see how it can hurt and can only help.

 

I am happy to hear Neyla went nuts when you came home Jen. That is what these pups do, make you thankful every day because they make you smile. You're doing really well by her so keep it, keep up the positive thinking.

 

Great to hear Flash is back to his normal self Shannon. It's so nice to see them back to themselves.

[NeylasMom]

Nice that you were able to get some answers Kyle.

 

I have to run to a meeting and won't be back online until tonight, but I just had to really quickly announce that today is officially 3 months post diagnosis! Here's to another 3 more Neyla!

[Guest nikkikaye]

Hi everyone. Nikki here from post #14. Jasmine went to the bridge yesterday. Diagnosed 7/23, bridge 8/11. My sweet, sweet angel was in too much pain. She was getting meds every 2 hours and the pain was too much- she was panting thru the meds. I think she just had it for a long time before she ever showed me a limp or any sign of pain- OR it was just a super agressive fast growing tumor. Either way, the whole thing happened fast- altho the nites up all nite medicating seemed like forever. We did immediately go to raw and artemisini, but it was too late.

I am not much of a poster, but i have been reading everyone's posts to keep me sane over the last 2 1/2 weeks. I love this site for the support it gives me. Reading Chasesmum's post about her feelings... its like pulling the words right out of my head. I know I am not alone in feeling the way I do. This was Jasmine, my first greyhound, my queen, my best friend, the one who started it all for me- 9 years ago. Reading Teri's posts and Sirocco's and Anubis'. I know how you all feel because i am just like you.

Really, I dont want this to be about Jasmine's dying of osteo- but rather Jasmine's 2.5 years of life post stroke. In April 2008, Jasmine had a massive stroke (there is a long post about her on here- search words Jasmine & stroke) When we survived the stroke, I saw every day as a gift. She and her 11 yr old bro Ben (whom I got from Neylasmom Jen) and i lived the crap out of life. I worked from home and we went to dog beaches constantly, trails and hikes all over beautiful SW Florida. She totally came out of her shell (this terrified greyhound- yeah- she was one of those). She made a total 180. She went from trembling in my room when guests came over.. to being the first one to run out and see who was at there door to kiss them. It took 9 years. And just when she was perfect, she was taken from me. A piece of me died with Jasmine yesterday. I dont know if I will ever really get over this one but i will move on. Ben and I will pick up the pieces, somehow, and learn to live day to day without her... thanks everyone for the support and advice and honesty. This is a great site and I am always so grateful for it:)

 

ps- i would like to post a pic, but dont know how- so if someone emails me at nikkikaye@gmail.com... ican send you a couple pics to see my beauty... and she was a black and white beauty.

[Guest ChasesMum]

big hugs to you nikki, its so very hard! we are here grieving with you

[NeylasMom]

Nikki, I'm so sorry for your loss. I remember when she had her stroke - you've been through some really scary stuff with your 2 b/w that and Ben's near death experience. You're a wonderful dog mom and have always provided the best care and love for your pups. I know how much you loved Jasmine. I wish there was more I could say. I'll send you an email - if you email a couple of pics to me, I will post them here so the group can see her. Feel free to throw in a pic of Ben for his old foster mom while you're at it. Hang in there.

[teri_d]

nikki - i am so so so sorry - your jasmine sounds like a real trooper - it is just awful to let them go - however it is the most loving thing.

 

neyla - you GO GIRL!!! happy 3 months - and heres to many many many many more!!!

[Sirocco_Nikki]

Nikki, I am very sorry for the loss of your Jasmine. I bet that Sirocco and Chase are showing her the ropes at the bridge. Please know that we are with you in your grief.