Typical Sighthound, Just Couldn't Give A Hoot

[cleptogrey]

what can i say, i was really lucky with all my other dogs, they loved obedience classes. my salukis learned to look me in the eye, my scottie- got it and used it, my welsh terrier- the demo dog extraodnairre, my first retired racer- i'll do it first and win!, my greyhound pup- yeah, let's do it and do some more and then there is my newbee, annie(we have had her since feb).

 

annie just looks the other way, will do a fast sit, fast down and pops right up. her recall is fantastic as she barrels right into me wagging her tail a mile a minute. down stay- if there is a dog bed or mat, sit say- you gotta be kidding, heel and tight turns- now that's fun. i have put MY breaks on not pushing her at all. when she turns off in around 15 seconds, off to something more pleasurable and yes there are BIG rewards for her positive behavior in following the script. practicing with her in between classes, well that is the look of pain!

 

she is really motivated by food, raw meat, liver treats, marshmallows, kibble,you name it,( she's a chow hound) those are her rewards! any suggestions besides laying low and maybe sneaking in some training at a later date? i have been returning from class feeling as if i have wasted an hour. the first time ever in training a pup! do i take my fun loving felix to class and just bite the bullet, she doesn't want to do it and review w/ felix,the king of fun?

 

i have seen some positive changes in annie's self esteem, she is a far more positive less fearful memeber of our house. but is it just her, me, a combo? i remember reading the intro in controll unleashed, the author purchased a dog for obedience and it just wasn't their thing. she moved on to another dog. is that what i have or is there an other key to unlock this block. annie is not panting, stressing or showing any signs of distress. she wags her tail going into class, wags in the heeling, figure 8, recall exercises as well. just has regressed big time and i am stuck!

Edited July 13, 2010 by cleptogrey

[Guest kydie]

really? wasted your time? one on one time with a dog that has other pack members is always good, I think it makes their bond with you better, Annie is who Annie is, so, In my pack of 4 all are so different,all have manners, some "birders" follow direction and are tuned in to humans, the grey a therepy dog, the "birders" would HATE therepy dog work, to slow and boring, and the old girl, well she hears you, but "will take a message and get back to You" I always think they are who they are, as long as they have manners, each has a nitch

[Batmom]

Not sure I understand what is going on that's frustrating to you? It sounds like she is learning some stuff and having some fun. On the off chance that one of these applies, I will note two things: 1. Some dogs, it takes time (months and months!) to "get" the general notion of training; and 2. For home work, I like to keep the sessions short, as in 5-10 minutes tops.

[cleptogrey]

training sessions are ALWAYS short and informal, while we walk, while i cook, whenever i can sneak it in.i pop in a quick down, stay or whatever and always praise big time. that much i learned many, many moons ago. bonding and trusting is increasing. i'm not sure if it's the work at classes or what, for the first time ever annie slept at the foot of the bed! that was until she fell out somewhere around 3 am. for a pup who hid when company came(posted a thread on her freaking out w/ my son-in-law from spain a month ago)there are improvements. i am just wondering if i should continue working with her or come back at a latter date. it's just weird, not getting the "connection" that i have been able to get in the past. the instructors talk about hitting a plateau, well ours is around 1k miles long!

[Batmom]

I'd keep working with her. If she's really shutting down and sulking, might try adding a clicker or a toy to some sessions or, if it happens during class, take her out of the class for a 5-minute mental break.

[Guest simile]

I started obedience classes with Chloe when she was just a little over two years old. We did 18 weeks straight in three different classes (same instructors, different activities and levels). I learned really quick that I couldn't do much repetition with Chloe. One or two times of the same command in a row was about all she was going to comply with. She figured she'd done it, it was fun, but now it was sooo yesterday - Next! Once I figured that out, classes became much more rewarding for both of us.

 

When the instructor would ask us to do something with our dogs (sit, down, stand), I'd do a run through of that, then I'd switch to "watch me" or "with me (heel), front", then maybe throw in a sit or down. I found that if I mixed it up, and really paid attention to her, we had a lot of success. It also taught her to pay attention to me because she never knew what I was going to ask - and that was my goal for obedience classes - not that she would do a sit/down/stay 12 times in a row(are we ever going to do that in real life?), but that she would listen and pay attention to me when I asked her to do something in real life situations.

 

I should add that there were a few class nights when Chloe was just not "on". She had zero interest in doing anything. As a teenager (two years old) that's not uncommon. When we did a class this year (she's three now), it was very different. She was more focused and more patient with things that bored her. A big part of that was maturity, but an even bigger part was my ability to read her to keep her motivated.

 

Good luck with your hound, and try to enjoy the challenge .

[TheFullHouse]

Sounds to me like she's learning, just at her own pace.

[Guest lovemyhounds]

Having taken greys through obedience classes, there are a few things I have come to understand, keep training short and varied, as stated above. Also, vary the rewards. A treat that may have been a huge hit one week may no longer work the next. During classes, I usually have at least 3-4 different treats and as I loose my hounds focus, I will try a different treat, saving the favorite for last. Also, my greys were very sensitive to corrections. Lily would just shut down if I corrected her too much, especially with her stays. What worked best for us when she would begin to shut down was to have her do some things I knew she could do successfully, reward those and then return to stays or whatever it was that she needed to work on improving.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I wonder if you are expecting a border collie, or greyhound when it comes to willingness and obedience execution. Yes a greyhound can learn, but remember, they are independent hunters for a reason.

[cleptogrey]

i have tried most of the suggestions mentioned above, all except taking annie out for a break as batmom has suggested. that will be tried out next week. treats are varied, exercises mixed up, targeting, quarter turns,puppy push ups, toys(she ignores them out of the house)and lots of praise and good rub downs. anything to keep it a positive experience.

 

i guess i'm doing the bad mom thing, comparing siblings! felix who did 60 weeks of classes used to yodell at the instructors, greet all the incoming members of the class and worked like a maniac! emily who was as reserved as can be was a spit fire in class, the fasted down and sit i've even seen a greyhound do. she was a real workaholic. emily was also a therapy dog and had her cgc after being off the track for 3 months. so, that's where i am coming from greyhound wise. my salukis had stink eye down to perfection! so, the independent hound thing is not new to me, i like it.

 

i am looking for saftey,bonding and most of all fun. we are getting the first two goals accomplished, it's the fun part i want to have annie experience.

 

this week the junk food junkie(gimme candy post) has a craving for angle food cake... will try that if dh hasn't devoured all of it.

Edited July 13, 2010 by cleptogrey

[Guest eaglflyt]

Have you changed up your treats lately? High value and variety always kept Ady Bea fresh and interested. Although, if the class went too long, it was an effort. The one hour classes were a bit too long for her ... she just wanted to lay down and sleep by the time it was ending. She could always be revived with smelly cheese!

[cleptogrey]

cheese, raw meat,kibble, dehydrated liver, marshmallows, cereal, bread, cooked chicken, cooked pork/beef, home made dog cookies(the owner of the school bakes for dogs) and hot dogs are in our treat menu.the instructors are really supportive and use annie as an example of "set backs", they laugh and say, "she will get it, don't worry!" it's getting over this hump. i do let her zone out if the class seems too long. i also take her there "hungry". i found out a while ago, a greyhound can't digest and think at the same time. they need to sleep off the food! so, she always goes hungry.

[Guest lovemyhounds]

Regarding treats, I have treats that are only given during class and others used during home training. When I use the same treats for both class and home training, the treat value is decreased. Saving special treats for class increases their value. Also, my hounds seem to do better if I don't let them zone out but instead keep them engaged and focused in class. We also take agility classes during which we at times must wait our turn. While waiting we continue training, even simple things like focusing on me where rewards are given for making eye contact without any command to do so..this soon becomes a fun game and my hound becomes very focused. If I start to loose attention during class, I engage my hounds to regain it. As batmom said, removing Annie from class to give her a break may help but in the class environment I would try to keep her engaged. Also, from your description, it sounds as though Annie is enjoying class but because of expectations, you may not be having fun and Annie will pick up on your feelings. My hounds are very tuned in and sensitive to my emotional state during training.

[cleptogrey]

will try ALL of the suggestions mentioned above. treats are only for class and training. i'm one of those strict people who does kibble and a couple of dog biscuits when i leave or put them to bed.(there are kongs, marrow bones and toys to keep them busy.) trust me, the good stuff is under lock and key so dh doesn't give it out! mean while felix is working away when i try to practice. annie butts her nose in and tries to sit, i'm letting her want it, working on anything that can be praised for and hoping for the best. i might just bring felix along on monday in reserve and do a switch and give annie a break. if she looks interested, i'll bring her back down on the floor and let her participate.

 

if anyone think of any other suggestions before monday, do post it. i'll check in after class...

[Batmom]

Relax. Tell yourself some jokes that will make you laugh in class. Smile, even if you need safety pins to do it. Set your expectations at rock bottom. You're there 3 minutes and she hasn't peed on the floor? Tell her she's a good girl in a nice high squeaky excited over-the-top voice. Bounce when you walk. If the class is doing "fast" (trotting), skip instead, and sing a silly song (I can't sing so mine is always "Found a peanut"). Get one of those cat gloves with the long fingers and the balls on the end and tweedle it at her from time to time. .................. You think I jest! But no. She might could use some help from you in figuring out what's fun about all this. Best luck!

[cleptogrey]

annie started sticking her head inbetween my legs and being very very submissive even with the teeniest amount of homework! i spoke to my old adoption rep(also a vet) who in her past life had sheppards and other breeds and has done extensive obedience work with her greys. she too had a female, a wonderful therapy dog, the dog she took on homevisits and then some who shut down totally in class.my rep said, let felix have fun and leave annie alone. so, annie stayed home w/ dh and hung out, felix yodelled in class,hugged and smiled at his long lost instuctor(he loves all the instructors he has had) played w/ his tennis ball inbetween activities and had a BLAST! he loved reviewing everything, it's been beastly hot here and he can't really run, so the workout was much needed. for the last week is the last class in the series, i'll bring both and have dh work annie or just let her watch.- i'll give it a shot in the future, she has come a long way, but this just isn't for her.

 

so, felix gets to do quarter turns to the left(he finally found his butt) and agility when it starts again! can't wait

[GreyPoopon]

You've tried and others have suggested a lot of what I do, so I don't have a lot to add, but here are a couple of thoughts. For the treats, try something soft and stinky, like chicken weiners. Pink just about went nuts when I brought out the turkey weiners. As for the in class breaks, if your instructors/class situation permit, try taking off at a fast run, cheering her on.

 

I've taken all of mine to school. There have been huge variations in how quickly they learn and how much they can handle at once. Several have hit a plateau or shut down for varying periods. Graham is currently on an extended (maybe permanent) break because he finds it all too stressful, even when practicing at home. He's got his basic skills, and he behaves well, so I've switched my attention to those who need and/or enjoy it more. I just do the occasional sit/down/whatever with him, and he's much happier.