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Greyhounds And Anaesthesia


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I went to the vet with Merlin yesterday about the growth in his mouth. My vet is not sure it's an epulis. He's due to have surgery next Wednesday to remove it (after which it will be sent to a lab for testing), and since his back teeth have tartar on them he is going to have a dental at the same time. He's had a dental at my vet's before, and he's been under general anaesthesia 4 times in his life already. So I'm not worried - right?

 

WRONG.

 

1 - I just don't seem to remember my vet's words about the risks involved making me this anxious the last time he had surgery. I have not even had the time to freak out about the growth - I am just really worried about something going wrong when he's "under". One of the reasons is that my vet told me that she uses a drop of something - for the life of me I can't remember the medical term - and that, in her words, "that word alone makes greyhound folks go 'Aaaargh!' when they hear it" - she says she uses it because she finds that it's the best way to make sure that they stay asleep, otherwise the anaesthetic is too light. But she says she uses just a drop. She used it on her greyhound, too. And one of the greys at playgroup also has her as a vet, and she's gone "under" with Dr. Katie too, and she's always been fine. Also, she does all of the greyhound spays/neuters/dentals for a local shelter that adopts out greyhounds. But I'm still worried now, because I keep thinking about this "drop" of whatever it is! (why didn't I ask her to write it down for me?). I do trust my vet's knowledge, expertise and experience with greyhounds (that's why I chose her), but I have a hard time trusting ANYONE generally, and when it comes to Merlin I just go bananas and neurotic :rolleyes: because I can't, can't lose him, I just can't.

 

2 - Also, I have a question... I was told not to feed Merlin that morning, which is fine. However, I am concerned about their request that I don't give him ANY water that morning either. They told me that he can drink the night before but then I should pick up his bowl. It's supposed to be humid and 80 degrees the day of his surgery. I can skip his usual 45 minute walk to keep him from overheating and wanting water, but I HAVE to take him out for a short walk as he won't poop in the yard. Can I give him a little ice? Or can I get up at 2am to give him some water? How long does it take for a dog to digest water? :huh:unsure

 

3 - Merlin is in very good health and is five years old, so the vet said that he should just need the regular pre-surgical tests, and not the additional ones. There is a big price discrepancy between the two, so I thought I'd take her advice, especially since the surgery is going cost over $500. Is that standard procedure? I am pretty sure he just got the usual tests the last time he had a dental, but then he was also 2 years younger.

 

Any advice, comments, expertise, thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I am VERY nervous this time around.

 

Thank you so much in advance!

Edited by MerlinsMum

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Kerry with Pippin (Paid Vacation), adopted 4/15/2017
Missing the best wizard in the world, Merlin (PA's Paris), the biggest Love I've ever known, and my sweet 80lb limpet, Sagan (Leon B) :brokenheart :brokenheart, every single day.

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I know exactly how you are feeling - I worry every time as well.

 

Anaesthesia is always a risk - for any animal - but more so in greys so am not going to say stop worrying - everything will be fine. But what I will say is that you seem to trust your vet and she seems to have a lot of experience with greys, so there is not a whole lot more you could ask for. As well in your favour, Merlin is relatively young and in excellent health.

 

We will all be waiting to hear that Merlin is home with lump removed and a pearly white smile.

 

Deb

Deb, and da Croo
In my heart always, my Bridge Angels - Macavity, Tila the wannabe, Dexter, CDN Cold Snap (Candy), PC Herode Boy, WZ Moody, Poco Zinny, EM's Scully, Lonsome Billy, Lucas, Hurry Hannah, Daisy (Apache Blitz), Sadie (Kickapoo Kara), USS Maxi, Sam's Attaboy, Crystal Souza, Gifted Suzy, Zena, and Jetlag who never made it home.

http://www.northernskygreyhounds.com

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Good thoughts from here. I wouldn't overwory about a healthy 5 year old, but I would ask my vet about the water issue.

 

In my experience with many many spay and neuters vets are split about picking up water at 10 or midnight the night before surgery and leaving it down. For many years I've just left it down with no problems as about 2/3 of the vets leaned that way.

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Guest IrskasMom

You got good Thoughts and Prayers from here. My Morty had Surgery (Mastcell Tumor on his left Hind Thigh) last Tuesday and his Teeth cleaned to. We just cannot be worried no matter what anybody says ,at least I was. My Vet said not feed him anything past 9 PM and Water is ok . :colgate

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When Gary had his dental and extractions a couple of weeks ago, I was told to let him have a drink in the morning, then take up the water. He was going to have his surgery between 11 and 1 sometime. I think the concern is that they will vomit, I can't imagine that it takes more than a couple of hours to digest any water they drank, but I would check with your vet.

 

Will be thinking of you and Merlin.

 

Linda

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Angel Gary (Hallo Smoke'em 2000-2013), Angel Molly (Kiowa Mysticrule 1999-2011) Linda, Hana, Sultan

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We just had Shelby in for a major dental and we were concerned as you are about the anaesthetic. Our vet is Grey savvy and used Propoflo that she says she uses for sight hounds only and it costs more but she considers safer (she used to show Whippets) and Isoflurane (general anaesthetic). As for the water, we thought the same thing and left if available for her even though she did not drink much the day of because we brought her first thing in the morning.

Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge.

Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl.

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Kerry,

 

Is it possible she mentioned to you that she uses Ace?(Acepromazine)

Edited by cbudshome

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Missing my little Misty who took a huge piece of my heart with her on 5/2/09, and Ekko, on 6/28/12

 

 

:candle For the sick, the lost, and the homeless

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Guest scfilby

If you are very concerned, ask that the vet put in an IV. Our vet does this at no charge, others charge for the fluid. The reason is if something does go wrong, they already have an open line to add fluids and administer meds.

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My vet only does extensive presurgical testing if the dog is 7 years old or older. That's about all I can add to this, since I don't know squat about medical anything.

 

 

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Christie and Bootsy (Turt McGurt and Gil too)
Loving and missing Argos & Likky, forever and ever.
~Old age means realizing you will never own all the dogs you wanted to. ~

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Guest Energy11

Sending lots of hugs and good thoughts to you!

 

My former vet/employer in Fla., used to say, no food OR water after midnight, but a SMALL amount of water EARLY in the morning would probably be OK. I was also thinking the drug the vet mentioned may have been Ace (Acepromazine).

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Guest Fasave

It's always a worry. I have to admit that I have decided to trust vets with anesthesia but if I were at all worried, I would ask them to write it down so that I can understand what they're using and they're protocol. You can then check it out with other people or vets to see if it makes sense. I like the idea of having an IV inserted "just in case".

 

As far as water, I've been told both. My guy had surgery this week and I was told to pull it up at bedtime. I also knew he was going to have surgery first thing in the morning. I don't want to take the risk of having anything in their stomachs when they are put under. It's very hot here too and I was thinking the same thing so I did my best to keep his environment cool until we got there. I'm not sure about blood tests but maybe it's the difference between a senior panel and a regular blood check? My guy had just had a physical and they had done a full senior panel so there was no need to run additional tests.

 

Best of luck with Merlin. Thinking good thoughts that it's just a boring old benign epulis.

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If you are very concerned, ask that the vet put in an IV. Our vet does this at no charge, others charge for the fluid. The reason is if something does go wrong, they already have an open line to add fluids and administer meds.

 

This is what I would do...get the IV line in, just in case it's needed :) I think a tiny bit of water in the morning won't be harmful. Like someone else said, let him have a drink and then pick the bowl up. He'll be fine :grouphug

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Michelle...forever missing her girls, Holly 5/22/99-9/13/10 and Bailey 8/1/93-7/11/05

Religion is the smile on a dog...Edie Brickell

Wag more, bark less :-)

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Thank you all so very much for your advice, you have no idea how much it helps!! You've given me ideas about what to ask.

 

Kerry,

 

Is it possible she mentioned to you that she uses Ace?(Acepromazine)

 

I just don't remember... :( Would Acepromazine be a problem?? I have decided that I am going to send an email to my vet and ask her if she can email me back with the exact names of the substances she will be using. I hope it won't sound as if I don't trust her, because I so trust her judgment, but I just like to be informed so I know what to expect (even though I know that sometimes the unexpected can occur :cry1).

 

All I know for now is what is on the estimate I was given, which isn't much. One of the items listed is "Anesthesia ISO" - maybe that stands for Isoflurane?

 

This is what I have:

 

Ca Routine Prophylactic Cleaning

Dental Radiographs 0-4 Views

Anesthesia ISO

Surgical Pre-Anesthetic Screen - IH

Temporary IV Catheter

Surgical Procuedure IV Fluids

Lincocin Sterile Inj./cc

Clindamycin 150mg (which I have been told is the antibiotics I will need to administer after the surgery - although I seem to remember getting Clavamox last time)

Oral Biopsy Collection

Dental Histopathology

 

Does that sound good?

 

I am glad to see that she already thought to put in an IV for the procedure, thanks for mentioning that!

 

I'll also ask her directly about the water issue. She's always been very straightforward and thorough about everything she does -- I remember once she spent an extra 25 minutes or so on a visit with me with a big veterinary tome, going through all the exceptions for greyhounds -- so I think she will understand...

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Kerry with Pippin (Paid Vacation), adopted 4/15/2017
Missing the best wizard in the world, Merlin (PA's Paris), the biggest Love I've ever known, and my sweet 80lb limpet, Sagan (Leon B) :brokenheart :brokenheart, every single day.

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Ace is part of a lot of vet's protocol. I hate the drug, however, I hate it when it's used for phobias only because of how the drug works in the body. That has nothing to do with the way your vet will use it.

 

Don't let it freak you out Kerry, like your vet said, she uses so little of it and so do many many vets.

 

Can't get any safer than Isoflourane gas.

 

As for the water issue, they tell you to withhold water after a certain time because they don't want the dog to throw up. I've always followed the no food to the letter, but I don't withold water until the morning.

 

Merlin would probably be fine if you do decide to withold water. Remember, while he's under, they're pumping in a lot of fluids

 

I know it's easier said then done, believe me I know, but try to relax

Edited by cbudshome

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Missing my little Misty who took a huge piece of my heart with her on 5/2/09, and Ekko, on 6/28/12

 

 

:candle For the sick, the lost, and the homeless

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Guest MnMDogs

I don't recall ever being told to withhold water when we've taken our dogs in. I know that they often wait many hours before their scheduled surgery, maybe that's why? I think even with human surgeries, there's some debate if one really needs to be "NPO" for 12 hours prior to surgery, or if clear liquids up to several hours before is ok.

 

Good thoughts for Merlin. It's so stressful whenever they go under, no matter what.

Edited by MnMDogs
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Ace is part of a lot of vet's protocol. I hate the drug, however, I hate it when it's used for phobias only because of how the drug works in the body. That has nothing to do with the way your vet will use it.

 

Don't let it freak you out Kerry, like your vet said, she uses so little of it and so do many many vets.

 

Can't get any safer than Isoflourane gas.

 

This is very helpful and a real relief. I'll still email the vet about the water to be sure, but thanks for reminding me that he will have fluids going into him when he's under... so maybe that's worth a little thirst beforehand, just to be sure I follow their instructions to the letter. Since I'm worried about complications, that at least would be one less thing to worry about...

 

Thanks so much! :)

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Kerry with Pippin (Paid Vacation), adopted 4/15/2017
Missing the best wizard in the world, Merlin (PA's Paris), the biggest Love I've ever known, and my sweet 80lb limpet, Sagan (Leon B) :brokenheart :brokenheart, every single day.

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No real help here but lots and lots of good thoughts and support!

 

You should ask your vet if they have that drug on hand to give after surgery if there are complications - and of course I can't remember off the top of my head. Hopefully someone else with more brain cells right now will pipe up!

 

Hugs to Merlin!

Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

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Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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Kerry, my two cents. Ask the vet. I saw that you plan to email her, so really this is just encouragement to follow through. There's no shame in being educated and it doesn't imply that you don't have faith in your vet. And to be honest, even educated vets can become comfortable with protocols that aren't ideal b/c they've worked for them. Case in point, Neyla was bitten by a dog and had to be put under to be stapled up. I went to an emergency hospital (it was a Saturday) but the vet happened to be a neurologist who doubled as an ER vet and who had adopted from us. I was beyond confident in his ability to use the appropriate anesthesia, but she had a really bad reaction. She pulled out of it, but it turns out that he used Dormitor, which I have since heard multiple times to avoid (you shoul duse propofol instead). And of course, it's made me incredibly fearful about anesthitizing her for anything else.

 

Regarding the water, I doubt he would become dehydrated in that short time, but again, ask your vet.

 

I understand your worry, believe me, but don't let it paralyze you. Educate yourself and ask your vet to work wtih you if need be, but don't be afraid to do waht he needs.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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When my guys have had anethesia, and Beau has had it more times than the other 4 multiple times over, he has always been allowed water, just not gallons of it.

 

 

ROBIN ~ Mom to: Beau Think It Aint, Chloe JC Allthewayhome, Teddy ICU Drunk Sailor, Elsie N Fracine , Ollie RG's Travertine, Ponch A's Jupiter~ Yoshi, Zoobie & Belle, the kitties.

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Kerry I personally would also make sure to ask if my vet had two important drugs on site.

 

Dantrolene is I believe the only known antidote for malignant hypothermia. Since Merlin has already had several uneventful exposures to anesthesia, perhaps MH is not an issue.

 

Amicar is a drug to help with bleeding disorders.

 

The group that I volunteer with has made sure that the vet that we use always has both of these drugs on site just in case they are needed.

 

Keeping Merlin (and you) in my thoughts and prayers.

 

Carol Ann

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Molly Weasley Carpenter-Caro - 4 Year Old Standard Poodle.

Gizzy, Specky, Riley Roo & Lady - Our beloved Greyhounds waiting at the Rainbow Bridge.

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Thank you very much for more great advice.

 

Carol Ann, thanks for those two names! I have not yet emailed my vet, so I will definitely make sure to mention those two when I do.

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Kerry with Pippin (Paid Vacation), adopted 4/15/2017
Missing the best wizard in the world, Merlin (PA's Paris), the biggest Love I've ever known, and my sweet 80lb limpet, Sagan (Leon B) :brokenheart :brokenheart, every single day.

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Guest Fasave

I was just thinking about my experiences with pups going under for procedures and you might want to ask what pain killers they are using as well. My newbie fell and broke a canine this Winter and had to have it removed. When I brought him home, he would suddenly sit up and SCREAM! I had never seen this before but I guess it can happen. My vet told me it was related to the pain meds and not the anesthsia and while a little scary, nothing to worry about. I of course was panicked for a few hours. Always good to know what to expect. It could just be that he came home pretty early. If I remember correctly, I dropped him off at 6:30 and picked him up at 1:30. Of course the minute I called to ask if was normal, he stopped screaming. :lol Just a thought.

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