Lumbra Sacral

[Guest Derrick]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm posting in hopes that someone can give me some advice. My 12 year old grey Jake has been suffering from this ailment for a few months now. I found this link on the net http://www.greyhoundgang.org/medical-lumbrasacral.php.

 

He's beginning to become very shakey. Over the last few months, his hind legs have just come right out from underneath him. Thank God we were home to help him.

 

He's fine when he's on level ground, although he tends to drag his legs along. He's had trouble going upstairs but has always managed after a few shuffles. He fell twice this morning while trying to go downstairs. Again, I thank God I was home to help.

 

My wife and I are very concerned. We are concerned about him falling when we're not here. We can't bare to think of that happening to him while he's alone.

 

Any help or advice is very much appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Derrick

[Guest barkdogs]

Hi Derrick,

 

I have had a few old dogs with lumbrasacral issues. Acupuncture has really done amazing things for them! Not sure where you live (if you're near Philly, I can recommend one) but if you ca find one that does animals, it's worth checking out!

 

Best of luck, Adelaide

[Guest Derrick]

Thank you Adelaide for your response. I live in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada.

 

Don't know if there's any vets here who offer acupuncture treatments. We're willing to try Depo-Medrol as suggested by Dr. Suzanne Stack in the link I posted (which, for some reason, doesn't appear to be working).

 

Sincerely,

 

Derrick Barrett

[KF_in_Georgia]

Can you block his access to the stairs when you aren't home? Maybe, an ex-pen or something else you can prop in front of the stairs to keep him from trying it. And make sure he has plenty of water within reach and a comfy bed on whichever floor he'll be staying on.

[Guest Mom2Shiloh]

The technique for the Depo Medrol injections that Dr. Stack has on her website has provided a great deal of relief for quite a few dogs. The vet I was going to at the time my Shiloh began developing this problem wasn't willing to do it... I still am mad at myself for not looking for a good vet who would. There isn't a cure per se, but it can give them a good bit of better quality life.

 

You might want to check on the Holistic Veterinary website (I'll try to find it for you, but I don't have it off the top of my head) in case there is a veterinary acupuncturist up there - you never know. Acupuncture can help a great deal, but I'd pursue the Depo Medrol in the meantime.... and blocking off areas that strain him is good too. Best wishes.

 

Edited to add:

http://www.holisticvetlist.com/

 

I didn't have any luck finding specific vet. acupuncture for Newfoundland; P.E.I., Ontario and the west coast yes.... But for what it's worth.

(I lived in Newfoundland for 3 years when I was young, my father was U.S. Navy and I went to Newfoundland schools while there.. it's a beautiful province!)

Edited June 26, 2010 by Mom2Shiloh

[GeorgeofNE]

The technique for the Depo Medrol injections that Dr. Stack has on her website has provided a great deal of relief for quite a few dogs. The vet I was going to at the time my Shiloh began developing this problem wasn't willing to do it...

 

Interesting! The specialist that I took George to would not do it either! Since she was a greyhound owner herself, and did her surgical residency at a clinic in Jacksonville that some of the severe track injuries go to, and has studied extensively in pain management and stuff (a very impressive resume--not a typical garden variety vet!) I listened to her.

 

She said something odd too, "You'll have to find a much older vet to do that procedure for L.S."

 

???

 

She told me the potential side effects of Depo Medrol simply outweigh any temporary benefit.

[Hubcitypam]

Dr Stack herself told me older vets are more willing to do depo medrol injections. In Rex's case it literally changed his life so I will never regret it.

[Guest Derrick]

We've considered that scenario but we have a 7 year-old grey who is very spry. Our fear is she'll jump over any barrier and we'll wind up with two ijured puppies.

 

Derrick

 

 

Can you block his access to the stairs when you aren't home? Maybe, an ex-pen or something else you can prop in front of the stairs to keep him from trying it. And make sure he has plenty of water within reach and a comfy bed on whichever floor he'll be staying on.

[greyhead]

Our holistic vet does acupuncture for Spencer's LS and it has worked very well for a year and a half.

 

But what's the issue with Depo-Medrol and the age of the vet? Does it take the confidence/experience of an older vet? Are they not teach it in vet school? It's very curious.

[Hubcitypam]

Evidently they have taught the evils in recent years while ignoring the fact it can help when not much else will.

[FiveRoooooers]

I'm sorry about this. But FWIW, my Pal, who will turn 12 in September, has been receiving Depo injections for the past two years, and they have done wonders for him. The dose is about what one would give a cat, it is very small, and he needs it about every 6-8 weeks. We are now at the point where I need to consider acupuncture for him, it has not been a good week and it's been just a week since his last injection. But for two years now, he has been good.

 

Pal also gets 100 mg Tramadol twice a day, and I believe that this has contributed to his feeling well for the past two years. No side effects for him at all.

 

Good luck to you.

[Guest Derrick]

I'll bet you lived in Argentia or Placentia.

 

Thank you for your help. I'm going to insist that our vet at least investigates the procedure. From what Dr. Stack describes, it not that complicated for a trained veterinarian. I hope we can be persuasive.

 

Even though he's 12, he's still very much a puppy at heart. The way he runs around in our garden melts my heart every time. We want him to have a quality life until the end. I'm very afraid that he'll wind up falling over the stairs and I'm not home to help him.

 

Derrick

 

 

 

The technique for the Depo Medrol injections that Dr. Stack has on her website has provided a great deal of relief for quite a few dogs. The vet I was going to at the time my Shiloh began developing this problem wasn't willing to do it... I still am mad at myself for not looking for a good vet who would. There isn't a cure per se, but it can give them a good bit of better quality life.

 

You might want to check on the Holistic Veterinary website (I'll try to find it for you, but I don't have it off the top of my head) in case there is a veterinary acupuncturist up there - you never know. Acupuncture can help a great deal, but I'd pursue the Depo Medrol in the meantime.... and blocking off areas that strain him is good too. Best wishes.

 

Edited to add:

http://www.holisticvetlist.com/

 

I didn't have any luck finding specific vet. acupuncture for Newfoundland; P.E.I., Ontario and the west coast yes.... But for what it's worth.

(I lived in Newfoundland for 3 years when I was young, my father was U.S. Navy and I went to Newfoundland schools while there.. it's a beautiful province!)

[KF_in_Georgia]

We've considered that scenario but we have a 7 year-old grey who is very spry. Our fear is she'll jump over any barrier and we'll wind up with two ijured puppies.

 

Derrick

 

 

Can you block his access to the stairs when you aren't home? Maybe, an ex-pen or something else you can prop in front of the stairs to keep him from trying it. And make sure he has plenty of water within reach and a comfy bed on whichever floor he'll be staying on.

 

What I've learned to do is put more than just the ex-pen in the way. I had to keep a dog from going over a baby gate to get to the trash can, so I put empty cardboard boxes in the floor around the trash can, so there was no landing zone for my would-be jumper. So maybe an ex-pen right in front of the stairs, then dining room chairs in front of the ex-pen? Or if you're trying to block the top of the stairs, then put extra obstacles to prevent the 7-year-old from getting near enough to the barrier to go over it. Alternatively, if you think your 7-year-old could clear a barrier without injury--as long as the stairs themselves aren't involved--maybe you could put the barrier far enough away from the stairs that she could jump safely. For instance, if you want to keep the dogs upstairs, put the barrier in the hallway leading to the stairs; she could clear the barrier, but Jake would be unlikely to try it.

 

I use an ex-pen to keep my dogs out of the foyer, so that I can get in and out of the house without dogs right in the doorway. (The doorway is configured strangely, and if the door is opened quickly, a dog's head could be pinned between the door and the wall.) Either/both of my dogs could jump the ex-pen if they really wanted to, but they're willing to accept the "suggestion" of the ex-pen and not go over it since there's nothing on the other side of the pen--once I get out the door--that they want. The baby gate in the kitchen was a different situation, since there's an unbelievably desirable trash can on the far side. If it's at all possible to make "good side of the barrier" = "desirable" to both dogs, "bad side of the barrier" = "undesirable", a barrier might be safe.

 

Also, if you can supply all of Jake's wants and needs in one place--water, bed, a nice view (especially so he can see when you come and go)--he might be willing to stay where you want him. He may be as uncomfortable on the stairs as you are when you see him there.

 

Edited to correct Jake's name. I'm getting my dog names muddled.

Edited June 26, 2010 by KF_in_Georgia

[Guest Derrick]

Thank you everyone. We've decided to keep Jake downstairs. Again this morning he had to be carried. We have a vet appointment on Tuesday. Will let you know how it goes.

 

Thanks again.

 

Derrick

 

 

 

We've considered that scenario but we have a 7 year-old grey who is very spry. Our fear is she'll jump over any barrier and we'll wind up with two ijured puppies.

 

Derrick

 

 

Can you block his access to the stairs when you aren't home? Maybe, an ex-pen or something else you can prop in front of the stairs to keep him from trying it. And make sure he has plenty of water within reach and a comfy bed on whichever floor he'll be staying on.

 

What I've learned to do is put more than just the ex-pen in the way. I had to keep a dog from going over a baby gate to get to the trash can, so I put empty cardboard boxes in the floor around the trash can, so there was no landing zone for my would-be jumper. So maybe an ex-pen right in front of the stairs, then dining room chairs in front of the ex-pen? Or if you're trying to block the top of the stairs, then put extra obstacles to prevent the 7-year-old from getting near enough to the barrier to go over it. Alternatively, if you think your 7-year-old could clear a barrier without injury--as long as the stairs themselves aren't involved--maybe you could put the barrier far enough away from the stairs that she could jump safely. For instance, if you want to keep the dogs upstairs, put the barrier in the hallway leading to the stairs; she could clear the barrier, but Jake would be unlikely to try it.

 

I use an ex-pen to keep my dogs out of the foyer, so that I can get in and out of the house without dogs right in the doorway. (The doorway is configured strangely, and if the door is opened quickly, a dog's head could be pinned between the door and the wall.) Either/both of my dogs could jump the ex-pen if they really wanted to, but they're willing to accept the "suggestion" of the ex-pen and not go over it since there's nothing on the other side of the pen--once I get out the door--that they want. The baby gate in the kitchen was a different situation, since there's an unbelievably desirable trash can on the far side. If it's at all possible to make "good side of the barrier" = "desirable" to both dogs, "bad side of the barrier" = "undesirable", a barrier might be safe.

 

Also, if you can supply all of Jake's wants and needs in one place--water, bed, a nice view (especially so he can see when you come and go)--he might be willing to stay where you want him. He may be as uncomfortable on the stairs as you are when you see him there.

 

Edited to correct Jake's name. I'm getting my dog names muddled.

[Rickiesmom]

The technique for the Depo Medrol injections that Dr. Stack has on her website has provided a great deal of relief for quite a few dogs. The vet I was going to at the time my Shiloh began developing this problem wasn't willing to do it...

 

Interesting! The specialist that I took George to would not do it either! Since she was a greyhound owner herself, and did her surgical residency at a clinic in Jacksonville that some of the severe track injuries go to, and has studied extensively in pain management and stuff (a very impressive resume--not a typical garden variety vet!) I listened to her.

 

She said something odd too, "You'll have to find a much older vet to do that procedure for L.S."

 

???

 

She told me the potential side effects of Depo Medrol simply outweigh any temporary benefit.

 

What did she recommend instead?

[Guest Mom2Shiloh]

Derrick.. sorry to be off topic, but I can't p.m. you yet.. Re: my time in Newfoundland, I lived on the Naval Base of Argentia, but went to school at the Parish School in Freshwater. Best school years I ever had. I'm still in touch with my 9th grade teacher.

 

Good luck with your boy! And since you're new -- welcome to GreyTalk, it's a great place.

[Guest dmona]

Derrick, just wanted to say that my Kelsey(age 12) took the depo injections and they definitely helped her. My vet is not old and had no problem is us at least trying it, which I am glad we did.

[Guest kerber]

Has anyone here had their dog on Prednisone and Gabapentin for LS? We just started our 13 year old grey after getting a couple x-rays done last Friday to confirm our suspicion of LS. Just wondering other people's experiences, as we just went through what Derrick is going through.

[Guest Paige12]

We had our senior (11 1/2) on Pred (famotidine for his stomach is a must) and Gabapentin. He also took tramadol 3 X a day, 50 to 75 mg. each time for the pain. One website compared LS to Doggy Sciatica, (sp?) and I've never had that, but my sister has and I know her pain is very sharp and intense. Also as the meds stopped working we gave him Diazepam ( a dog version of valium) when he had trouble sleeping at night because of pain. Sorry this sounds so negative. He fought the good fight for many months. Weds. will be two weeks. He was a bounceback that we adopted in April 2009, but he took our hearts the first minute we saw him. Good luck, I would also recommend trying acupuncture, it's worth a try and you'll know you did all you could. Our vet who is Dr. Feeman also said he felt the risks that came with the Depro made it not a good option for Cha-Cha. Okay, sorry had to edit this it is just way too negative. Cha-Cha had many months and days where he had wonderful quality of life. He would gallop around the yard like a big goof and put his rear end up in the air and shake the stuffy and kill it, and man did he love the flying squirrel toy! So good luck, sounds like you are on a good path and getting lots of good advice on containing your boy. Keep you in my thoughts and prayers, all of you! Beth

Edited June 28, 2010 by Paige12

[Guest Derrick]

We have a vet appointment for Jake on Friday.

 

We've had to keep him on the main floor of our 3 story house since Saturday. He couldn't manage the stairs at all so I carried him. We bought a baby gate to block access. It took him a couple of days to adjust but he seems contented. It's almost like he knows why he can't go upsatirs anymore.

 

Our vet has had him on 50 mg of Deramaxx daily for the last few months. We want to avoid pred. Our first Grey (who died from immune-mediated thrombocytopenia) did not do well with it.

 

Will let you all know what transpires on Friday.

 

Thanks everyone for your help and words of encouragement.

 

Derrick

 

 

 

 

 

We had our senior (11 1/2) on Pred (famotidine for his stomach is a must) and Gabapentin. He also took tramadol 3 X a day, 50 to 75 mg. each time for the pain. One website compared LS to Doggy Sciatica, (sp?) and I've never had that, but my sister has and I know her pain is very sharp and intense. Also as the meds stopped working we gave him Diazepam ( a dog version of valium) when he had trouble sleeping at night because of pain. Sorry this sounds so negative. He fought the good fight for many months. Weds. will be two weeks. He was a bounceback that we adopted in April 2009, but he took our hearts the first minute we saw him. Good luck, I would also recommend trying acupuncture, it's worth a try and you'll know you did all you could. Our vet who is Dr. Feeman also said he felt the risks that came with the Depro made it not a good option for Cha-Cha. Okay, sorry had to edit this it is just way too negative. Cha-Cha had many months and days where he had wonderful quality of life. He would gallop around the yard like a big goof and put his rear end up in the air and shake the stuffy and kill it, and man did he love the flying squirrel toy! So good luck, sounds like you are on a good path and getting lots of good advice on containing your boy. Keep you in my thoughts and prayers, all of you! Beth

[GeorgeofNE]

Our holistic vet does acupuncture for Spencer's LS and it has worked very well for a year and a half.

 

But what's the issue with Depo-Medrol and the age of the vet? Does it take the confidence/experience of an older vet? Are they not teach it in vet school? It's very curious.

 

I can tell you what the specialist told me--and don't flame ME anyone, this is what someone with extensive training (not just a "plain old" vet) believes:

 

Steroids actually don't do anything for the compressed nerves of the spinal column (the real problem). They only work on the inflammed tissue AROUND the spine. There can be serious side effects from injecting steroids, and once their injected, there is no way to "turn them off." While relieving the inflammation around the spine may provide temporary relief in some dogs, it doesn't actually treat the condition. Only surgery fixes it.

 

She believes (quite strongly) that the risk are not worth the very temporary benefits. She believes that simple pain relief is best.

 

Older vets may be more willing to do it since they haven't done the more recent research is how I took her comments. She told me it was more or less "bad science."

 

I even sent her the article on it, and she said she had already read about it and would not do it. Period.

 

So...

 

Given that she is considered the expert in this area in serious issues like L.S. (and is a greyhound owner herself) I have to hope she knows what she's talking about.

 

???

[Guest Paige12]

We have a vet appointment for Jake on Friday.

 

We've had to keep him on the main floor of our 3 story house since Saturday. He couldn't manage the stairs at all so I carried him. We bought a baby gate to block access. It took him a couple of days to adjust but he seems contented. It's almost like he knows why he can't go upsatirs anymore.

 

Our vet has had him on 50 mg of Deramaxx daily for the last few months. We want to avoid pred. Our first Grey (who died from immune-mediated thrombocytopenia) did not do well with it.

 

Will let you all know what transpires on Friday.

 

Thanks everyone for your help and words of encouragement.

 

Derrick

 

 

 

 

 

We had our senior (11 1/2) on Pred (famotidine for his stomach is a must) and Gabapentin. He also took tramadol 3 X a day, 50 to 75 mg. each time for the pain. One website compared LS to Doggy Sciatica, (sp?) and I've never had that, but my sister has and I know her pain is very sharp and intense. Also as the meds stopped working we gave him Diazepam ( a dog version of valium) when he had trouble sleeping at night because of pain. Sorry this sounds so negative. He fought the good fight for many months. Weds. will be two weeks. He was a bounceback that we adopted in April 2009, but he took our hearts the first minute we saw him. Good luck, I would also recommend trying acupuncture, it's worth a try and you'll know you did all you could. Our vet who is Dr. Feeman also said he felt the risks that came with the Depro made it not a good option for Cha-Cha. Okay, sorry had to edit this it is just way too negative. Cha-Cha had many months and days where he had wonderful quality of life. He would gallop around the yard like a big goof and put his rear end up in the air and shake the stuffy and kill it, and man did he love the flying squirrel toy! So good luck, sounds like you are on a good path and getting lots of good advice on containing your boy. Keep you in my thoughts and prayers, all of you! Beth

In reading what GeorgeofNE, wrote, that jiggled what Dr. Feeman also told me about why he was reluctant to inject our boy. The part about the "inflamed tissue around the spine" rings a bell. Glad it seems to have worked for some, but we didn't try it. Cha-Cha was on deramaxx when we adopted him and he did really, really well on it for quite a while! Sending good thoughts for Friday!! Edited June 29, 2010 by Paige12

[greyhead]

Steroids actually don't do anything for the compressed nerves of the spinal column (the real problem). They only work on the inflammed tissue AROUND the spine. There can be serious side effects from injecting steroids, and once their injected, there is no way to "turn them off." While relieving the inflammation around the spine may provide temporary relief in some dogs, it doesn't actually treat the condition. Only surgery fixes it.

Thanks much, Susan. I know at some point Spencer's going to "graduate" to needing something besides acupuncture. I mentioned those shots to his IBD internist but she just shook her head and told me to walk him as much as possible. Well, that's only going to go so far too. So I'll talk to his regular vet about pain relief when it looks like he needs it. Thanks again!