Junebug Snapped At Me!

[Guest Mommy2Junebug]

So, I've been reading a lot on this forum about what makes greyhounds "tick"... I know not to put your head right on their chests... Junebug doesn't like this at all, and snapped at DBF once for doing it... I know about some issues with food aggression and toy aggression, which Junebug hasn't had, except when it comes to rawhides... so, no more rawhides for her...

 

But tonight, she snapped at me! It's never happened before, and now I'm a little afraid of my dog...

She'd had a long walk, and got up on the bed to snooze... I was laying with her and petting her, which she seemed to like... But she must've fallen asleep, because when I went to stroke her neck - SNAP!

 

Growling, barking, teeth-baring, the whole works! It scared me so much that I jumped and fell off the bed! I promptly got up and told her NO! DBF got her off the bed and made her lay in her own bed... The rest of this evening, we've both gotten nothing but sad faces and stink eyes.

 

I ignored her for a couple minutes, but I can't stand being angry at her... I tried telling her it was okay, and (carefully) petting her some more... But she's basically giving me the blow-off... And honestly, I'm too shook up to really try and pet or cuddle her...

 

Also, please be gentle in any "parenting" criticisms you may have of me... She's my first grey, and I'm doing everything possible to be the best owner I can be! So far, she's been amazing, (aside from a couple little naughty, but minor, things), so that's why I'm so taken aback by this whole incident...

[kamsmom]

If it were my dog she would not be having bed priviledges for a while. Now you know that she wakes up with a bit of aggression so probably best not to mess with her when she is sleeping. Unfortunately that also means no petting and loving on her while she is asleep.

Hopefully with time and patience you and she will be able to mend the feelings. Some dogs are just not cuddlers and especially while asleep. Good Luck to you both

[TwiggysMom]

First, I don’t see this as a reflection of how Junebug feels toward you as her person, caretaker, packmate, etc.

 

It seems to me that this is solely about her having always slept in her own completely personal space untouched in her life prior to now. All of a sudden she is happily drifting off to sleep cuddling, being petted, and then she is soundly asleep when she discovers AAAAUUUUGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! Something is touching me!!!!!!!! HELP!!

 

It wasn’t her fault, it wasn’t your fault, it was just probably just too soon to “go to that level”.

 

Many greyhounds take quite a long time (if ever) before they can take sleeping/cuddling with their people. I have had some fosters (current included) who don’t have this type of personal space issue, but I wouldn’t try sleeping with my girl Twiggy – she just isn’t a cuddler.

 

I would say that the jury is still out on whether Junebug will ever be a cuddler, but my advice is to give her her space for now, and see what time brings. On the other hand, I don’t think you should feel that this has an influence your relationship while she is awake.

[greysmom]

Sounds like you have a bit of a sleep aggressive hound there. It's not a big deal, and certainly nothing to get all shook up about. It was mostly sound and noise and her startling YOU. If she had *wanted* to bite you, she would have. Mostly, remember that this is a reflex action, not a choice that she's making. She doesn't hate you, and the stinkeye is probably because she got kicked off the bed. Also, she may get better with time - some do and some don't, I've had both kinds - you'll have to wait and see.

 

Lots of people live quite well with with sleep aggressive dogs. She shouldn't sleep on the bed with you - unless you are willing to live with the snarl of death (SOD) every time she gets disturbed. Have her sleep on her own bed at night. If she is used to sleeping on your bed it may take some time and patience to retrain her. During the day, make sure she has a bed that is near you but out of the general flow of traffic.

 

If you have guests - especially children - they should all be instructed to never touch the dog when she's on her bed. Period.

 

You and your BF need to get in the habit of making sure she is awake before you come into range. Call her name, throw a light toy on her, use a clicker sound, anything that will wake her from a distance. And make sure she *IS* awake! Many greys have the ability to sleep with their eyes open, and look like they are awake when they aren't. Be sure.

 

You just have to train yourself to be careful every time you wake her. It's not hard and pretty soon you'll be doing it without thinking.

[Guest Samantha]

Sleep agression, It really is quite common, I would say 75% of the greys I have had, have had it in some form. I would say, it wasn't your ot her fault either, but you did right by removing her from the bed, and if she were mine she wouldnt be getting up on the bed for a good while yet. The ideas I have seen on here before seem good, desensatise ( spelling? lol) her, starts by throwing a soft toy or rolled up socks near her while she is sleeping, and gradually move on to throwing it gently on her. She may never be safe to sleep with, its just the way it is. I have been real lucky with Maddison, she and my son often fall asleep together and she has no sleep agression at all.

 

When I had Maddison only afew weeks I posted on here about her snapping....air snapping extremely loudly, and I was abit scared of her after she did this, now we laugh at it, its her way of telling us she is excited or she wants to go out. She's like a croc when she does it CHOMP!!. As time goes on you will become more aware of her little quirks and probably laugh and take them in your stride

 

And yes ALL greys hate being told off,especially when they are newish, but you did the right thing, and of course after afew treats and some scritches she will be your friend again

 

Good Luck!

[dante2zoe]

We have one with really bad sleep aggression. We are also slow learners. It took a couple bites before we understood what was happening (pre-GT) and that she also sleeps with her eyes open. Now, and it has been this way for several years so it is routine, we call her and make sure that there is a response before approaching her while she is lying down. She is not permitted to sleep on our bed with we are on it. She is a sweetie the rest of the time (with people and otherwise it's a whole 'nother story) and we just consider it to be part of her personality. She has mellowed as time has passed.

 

We also have one that does sleep with us and gives us the SOD (love that description!) when accidentally touched while he is asleep. It was disturbing at first, but now we just dump him off the bed if we are awake enough to do that or just tell him to take a pill. He has never snapped and just gets up and adjusts his position for 5 minutes before throwing himself on your legs to make sure you understand how inconvenienced he has been made!

 

I would imagine that everything will be better today - let us know!

[TheFullHouse]

Exactly what everyone else said. She's still new to your home and it may take a while for her to get to the point where you can have her on the bed again. Most hounds "outgrow" those sleep startle responses, not all but most. Give it some time. Don't hold it against her, she didn't mean to. You did the right thing by making her get off the bed and get on her own, so good job there! I'd make her stay off the furniture for a while.

[jetcitywoman]

What everybody else said. Plus I'd like to add that you should try not to take it too personally and try not to be afraid of her because of this. Dogs can't say "oh, you startled me, mom" or "I don't like that, please stop". They can only growl and snap. You should take a growl and a snap that missed your flesh as one of the above two statements. A warning of a kind. Just try to understand it from her point of view, consider yourself corrected, and move on from there. While your dog is new to you, it's very helpful to respect her boundaries. It doesn't give her "alpha" dominance over you, but it does show her that you are kind and understanding, and she will begin to respect you in turn.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Two things, first, call your hounds foster parent and ask if they noticed any other behavior that you should be aware of. Second, if anything else happens, contact your adoption rep and let them know what is going on, GO has a very good support group of people that can help you with issues. The above suggestions of not allowing her on the bed for a while is a very good suggestion, you shouldnt allow her on any furnature for that matter until you are sure this behavior has been extinguished. I would suggest a few things to help with this behavior, first I would enroll in the K9 Windy City greyhounds obedience class as soon as the next class is available, just watch your email from GO and you will see the next class. Second, I would consider hand-feeding your hound each meal for about a week or so - this will quickly help to establish your role as the leader as well as create a very strong bond. Third, I would work on desensitization. I would lay with her on the floor (at her butt, not head) and gently pet her as you watch tv or something else where you can just zone out while you pet her. If you notice she falls asleep, call her name to wake her, but keep petting her. Do this every day. If you are nervous about her snapping at you, just put her muzzle on before you attempt this desensitization, that way you arent worried about her snapping at you. Keep up the daily routine of petting her while she is laying down, and after a week or so, slowly start to move your petting closer to her head. If she does come up snapping, you dont need to get overly agressive about correcting her, a simple "uh-ah" will suffice and continue petting her. Or you can say something like "enough" in a firm voice. But the key is to continue to pet her, that way she doesnt have the poor behavior reinforced by you stopping. I know this is counter to what others have said above, but this is what I do with every single foster that I get in my house. I dont push them too hard, but I let them know that there is nothing to fear from me and that I will pet them if I want to. There is a fine line you need to be able to walk between pushing too hard which will create fear from your hound, and not pushing at all which will simply extend the bad behavior. If you dont feel comfortable calling your foster parents or adoption rep, feel free to call me: 630-272-8178 (cell)

 

I just re-read my post, when I say "lay with her" I mean have her lay on a bed on the floor, and you sit behind her at her butt and pet her, NOT laying on her or touching her in any way except for your hand that is petting her.

 

Chad

Edited June 16, 2010 by Greyt_dog_lover

[Batmom]

Exactly what everyone else said. She's still new to your home and it may take a while for her to get to the point where you can have her on the bed again. Most hounds "outgrow" those sleep startle responses, not all but most. Give it some time. Don't hold it against her, she didn't mean to. You did the right thing by making her get off the bed and get on her own, so good job there! I'd make her stay off the furniture for a while.

 

Yep.

 

My angel Batman never outgrew sleep startle. Didn't happen very often, but if he was asleep and got startled awake, every now and then he'd wake up with a huge snarl and a snap. He never showed any interest in getting on the people furniture. If I got on the floor with him for a cuddle, I just had to make sure to move away before he fell asleep.

 

First @ 2 weeks our newer girl Gidget startled awake a time or two with a quick growl or a bark. This has diminished over the several weeks we've had her. She isn't a snappy dog. So, at this time she is allowed on the sofas and allowed to share Joseph's bed ... but not the people bed if a people is in it .

 

If the dog is genuinely asleep, doesn't help to scold or angrily evict -- they have no idea what they did wrong. I just calmly "off" the furniture and send to their own bed.

[CaliforniaGreys]

May just be me, but I wouldn't call that sleep aggression. Startle yes, aggression, no.

 

I also may be alone in how I would handle it because I wouldn't banish them from the bed, I would just not touch them when they're sleeping. Or, call her name before you attempt to pet her to be sure she's fully awake

 

I know Lenny is a little like this, you can touch his head, but not his body when he's sleeping, so I just don't.

 

Wayne, is the total opposite, he can'r get close enough when he sleeps

[Guest KennelMom]

Exactly what everyone else said. She's still new to your home and it may take a while for her to get to the point where you can have her on the bed again. Most hounds "outgrow" those sleep startle responses, not all but most. Give it some time. Don't hold it against her, she didn't mean to. You did the right thing by making her get off the bed and get on her own, so good job there! I'd make her stay off the furniture for a while.

 

yep, yep, yep.

 

May just be me, but I wouldn't call that sleep aggression. Startle yes, aggression, no.

 

I also may be alone in how I would handle it because I wouldn't banish them from the bed, I would just not touch them when they're sleeping. Or, call her name before you attempt to pet her to be sure she's fully awake

 

 

this too. We don't banish dogs from a "resource." That doesn't solve the problem, it simply avoids it. We teach them "off." In this case, though, the dog was simply sleeping and was startled awake. That's more of a reflex than a conscious decision from the dog. (I've known some humans that come up swinging if startled awake)

 

Have you read the article by Kathleen Gilley about a greyhound's life before retirement? If not, one of us can dig it up and post it here for you. It's excellent in describing why greyhound are simply not used to being touched awake.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

I know that many choose to share bed and furniture priveledges with their pups, but I'm actually not such a big fan of it, most especially for this very reason. It's very easy to respect their space if they're in their own bed while resting or sleeping, and I'm not real keen on having to avoid my bed or my couch in order not to disturb a pup. Also, I'm pretty much a big fan of Batmom's usual advice of, "Let sleeping dogs lie".

 

Good news for you is there's an easy solution - limit bed and furniture priviledges, and be more careful of your interaction with Junebug when she's made herself comfortable.

 

edited to add: It's completely understandable that you're feeling a little shaken and nervous around Junebug afterwards. A little bit of time will help with that. While it might be hard to act "normal" around her for the moment, push yourself to try very hard to do just that. Remember, that while the incident is still lingering in your mind, she's moved on and will only be confused by negative reactions from you.

Edited June 16, 2010 by PiagetsMom

[Guest Energy11]

I have this with both Oakly and Goldie.

 

They are loves, especially Goldie. She WANT to lie by me, and we "hold hands," .. etc., but if she is sleeping or dozing, and I come to bed, sometimes, she will go after me. Oakly is especially space aggressive.

 

I know this about these two, and I am just careful. This is the way they are, and I respect them, and their spaces.

 

It is scarey, but ALWAYS be on guard with your dogs. Yes, they are Greyhounds, and we all hold them in high esteem, but they are still dogs :-)

[Guest redreed]

Just to mention it again!! -- Some greys sleep with their eyes open. Tiger Shark almost always had his eyes open a bit when he was asleep - so please be aware that even if you think they are awake, they may not be. Tiger grew into sleep startle as he aged and his hearing started to go. We would stomp hard on the floor if we thought he was asleep and needed to go past him or near him.

[Time4ANap]

We are having a similar issue with Rocket. He will lay on the floor, or on his bed and give you the "pet me" paw signal or roll over to have his belly rubbed. I think he just has some leftover space agression that he doesn't know how to get rid of. He wants to be petted or play, but his natural reaction is to snarl because you are too close. I have the teeth marks in my hand to prove it. I also think that he sometimes falls asleep while being petted and is then startled, much like what happened with you and Junebug.

 

We have started enforcing some boundaries for him, and have gone back to "nothing in life is free." We know that he is more prone to this in the morning and evening which are his "napping" times. We avoid that type of play or petting during those times unless he comes to us and is standing, not laying down.

 

He is our best buddy and right by our side 99.9% of the time. We just need to make sure that we are both in tune to whether or not he is really wanting to play until this behavior stops. He has been here a year and a half, and I really think he will eventually be a snuggler based on the changes we've seen, but that day is still far away.

[Guest SusanP]

I also want to add that when you correct a dog, you don't need to stay angry with them for a long time after. Make the correction and then move on to normal, because the dog isn't going to understand the idea of lengthy punishment for something that is already forgotten.

 

A dog with sleep aggression isn't doing it on purpose; I'm sure she had no idea you were even you when she was asleep. Our dogs with sleep aggression got over it eventually, though I did get bit once years later when I was petting Doug and he fell asleep and I somehow startled him. Drew blood right through my bra! it was a very isolated incident in the 8 years we've had him, and he didn't "mean it" at all; he's the sweetest dog you could ask for, and would never even think of biting when he's awake.

 

I hope this thread has helped you to feel better about what happened. Your dog still loves you!

[Guest BlingDogs]

I wouldn't take it personally, a sleepy dog is not thinking properly, just following instincts.

[Guest TBSFlame]

You have received good advice. It takes time....lots of time. First, do not let the dog on the bed. It may not be safe. That doesn't mean the dog can never get on the bed ever again but that may be the case. I promise you the dog you have now will not be the same dog on it's first gotcha day. My first one had sleep agression and snapped a few times. He lived with us for 5 years and did get over it. I have a friend that cured a bad case of sleep agression/space agression with her dog. While he lay on his bed she would toss rolled up socks on him. It helped a lot. I babysit for him and trust me any dog coming to my house must not be sleep or space agressive. lol. My hounds lounge all over each other. lol.

[Guest Mommy2Junebug]

Thanks so much everyone, I'm really glad to have a caring, understanding online community I can turn to for advice. GT has been a great resource for me.

Junebug's back to her normal self today. Last night before bed, I carefully approached her and gave her a few ear-rubs and told her "It's okay sweetie." She kept giving me the stink-eye, but didn't show anymore aggression. DBF said that she was probably overtired... He'd taken her to his parents' house earlier in the day, and she was wiped out from playing with the neighbors' 2 Brittany Spaniels for several hours.

 

This morning, I took her for a walk before I went to work, and all was forgiven!

 

Regarding the furniture issue, it's been something we're working on. She's definitely learned that when it's time for Mom and Dad to go to sleep, she can't be on the "human" bed. She's been good about this. We only allow her in the bedroom when one of us is home, otherwise she has to stay in the living-room/kitchen area. If I know she's sleeping, I'll say "Junebug!" loud enough to wake her before I approach her for any affection. Last night, she fell asleep mid-cuddle, so I think that accounts for why she got startled when I was petting her chest.

 

On a lighter note, she even let me file her nails today with the "Pawdicure"... No aggression, just a couple of groans like, "Really Mom? You gotta do that?"

Thanks again for everyone's understanding and helpfulness. I love my girl so much, that I think I was just saddened by the whole situation and wasn't thinking clearly last night. I'll use it as a learning experience going forward.

[Guest UtahCoyote]

I'm sorry to hear that you've had this experience. About 4 months after I adopted my girl, I was kissing her and petting her in the morning while she was in her dog bed, something I had done many times before. Out of the blue, she growled and snapped at me, biting me in the face. I had a small puncture would in my chin, and required 3 stitches on my cheek. I was so surprised and mad at her. It took some time to rebuild the trust and love, and now we are fine. I no longer pet her when she's in her bed (I don't allow her on my bed).

 

My feelings were so hurt. I couldn't believe that she'd bite me, but I realized shortly after that she was just being a dog, a grey with some sleep aggression. I foolishly thought that she and I were "above" that sort of thing. But she's a dog, and I learned that day to respect her space a bit more. It was a tough and emotionally painful lesson. Thankfully my boyfriend was able to come right away and help normalize things for me, and stayed with me in my bedroom for 3 nights following the incident. Time does heal, and the scar is barely visible.

 

I love my girl, and I hope that you can move past this. Good luck to you.

[Guest 2greygirls]

When they jump up like that... it is scary, but like everyone said, she wasn't attacking YOU, she was startled. My boy loves to cuddle, but he had terrible sleep aggression, I was afraid to let him sleep with me...and I have known him since he was a puppy! His first day home he fell asleep in my lap ( he thinks he's a lap dog, but is really a ninty pound galoot)..he woke up swinging. NOw he is just fine, I am still respectful of him when he is sleeping, but now he sleeps in my bed, with his muzzle in the crook of my neck! No more Cujo. Some get over it after they adapt to the hosue, some improve, but never wuite get over it. The same thing goes with the kissy face thing, I kiss my dogs, and we regualry touch faces, but that is how we relate..I wqould never do it to another dog, and I tell my friends to never try to kiss mine. sorry for the typos, I can't see the bottom half of the post, and I'm tyriong to edit, but I can't see that either...oh well, good luck!

Edited June 17, 2010 by 2greygirls

[gazehund]

Kathleen Gilley's article per request of Miss Heather

 

Junebug's new life from HER point of view.

 

Of all breeds of dogs, the ex-racing Greyhound has never had to be responsible for anything in his life. His whole existence has been a dog-centered one. This breed has never been asked to do anything for itself, make any decisions or answer any questions. It has been waited on, paw and tail. The only prohibition in a racing

Greyhound's life is not to get into a fight----------------or eat certain stuff in the turn out pen.

 

Let us review a little. From weaning until you go away for schooling, at probably a year and a half, you eat, grow and run around with your siblings. When you go away to begin your racing career, you get your own "apartment," in a large housing development. No one is allowed in your bed but you, and when you are in there, no one can touch you, without plenty of warning.

 

Someone hears a vehicle drive up, or the kennel door being unlocked. The light switches are flipped on. The loud mouths in residence, and there always are some, begin to bark or howl. You are wide awake by the time the human opens your door to turn you out. A Greyhound has never been touched while he was asleep.

 

You eat when you are fed, usually on a strict schedule. No one asks if you are hungry or what you want to eat. You are never told not to eat any food within your reach. No one ever touches your bowl while you are eating. You are not to be disturbed because it is important you clean your plate.

 

You are not asked if you have to "go outside." You are placed in a turn out pen and it isn't long before you get the idea of what you are supposed to do while you are out there. Unless you really get out of hand, you may chase, rough house and put your feet on everyone and every thing else. The only humans you know are the "waiters" who feed you, and the "restroom attendants" who turn you out to go to the bathroom. Respect people? Surely you jest.

 

No one comes into or goes out of your kennel without your knowledge. You are all seeing; all knowing. There are no surprises, day in and day out. The only thing it is ever hoped you will do is win, place or show, and that you don't have much control over. It is in your blood, it is in your heart, it is in your fate-- or it is not.

 

And when it is not, then suddenly you are expected to be a civilized person in a fur coat. But people don't realize you may not even speak English. Some of you don't even know your names, because you didn't need to. You were not asked or told to do anything as an individual; you were always part of the "condo association?; the sorority or fraternity and everyone did everything together, as a group or pack. The only time you did anything as an individual is when you schooled or raced, and even then, You Were Not Alone.

 

In my "mobile abode," the Greyhounds each have several unique names, but they also have a single common name: it is Everybody. We continue to do things as a group, pack or as we are affectionately known in-house, by Kathleen's Husbandit, "The Thundering Herd."

 

Back to those who have not been permanently homed. Suddenly, he is expected to behave himself in places he's never been taught how to act. He is expected to take responsibility for saying when he needs to go outside, to come when he is called, not to get on some or all of the furniture, and to not eat food off counters and tables. He is dropped in a world that is not his, and totally without warning, at that.

 

Almost everything he does is wrong. Suddenly he is a minority. Now he is just a pet. He is unemployed, in a place where people expect him to know the rules and the schedule, even when there aren't any. (How many times have you heard someone say, "He won't tell me when he has to go out." What kind of schedule is that?) Have you heard the joke about the dog who says, "My name is No-No Bad Dog. What's yours?" To me that is not even funny. All the protective barriers are gone. There is no more warning before something happens. There is no more strength in numbers. He wakes up with a monster human face two inches from his. (With some people's breath, this could scare Godzilla.) Why should he not, believe that this "someone," who has crept up on him, isn't going to eat him for lunch? (I really do have to ask you ladies to consider how you would react if someone you barely knew crawled up on you while you were asleep?) No, I will not ask for any male input.

 

Now he is left alone, for the first time in his life, in a strange place, with no idea of what will happen or how long it will be before someone comes to him again. If he is not crated, he may go though walls, windows or over fences, desperately seeking something familiar, something with which to reconnect his life. If he does get free, he will find the familiarity, within himself: the adrenaline high, the wind in his ears, the blood pulsing and racing though his heart once again--until he crashes into a car.

 

Often, the first contact with his new family is punishment, something he's never had before, something he doesn't understand now, especially in the middle of the rest of the chaos. And worst of all, what are the most common human reactions to misbehavior? We live in a violent society, where the answer to any irritation is a slap, punch, kick, whip, or rub your nose in it. Under these circumstances, sometimes I think any successful adoption is a miracle.

 

He is, in effect, expected to have all the manners of at least a six-year old child. But, how many of you would leave an unfamiliar six-year old human alone and loose in your home for hours at a time and not expect to find who knows what when you got back? Consider that if you did, you could be brought up on charges of child abuse, neglect and endangerment. Yet, people do this to Greyhounds and this is often the reason for so many returns.

 

How many dogs have been returned because they did not know how to tell the adoptor when they had to go out? How many for jumping on people, getting on furniture, counter surfing, separation anxiety, or defensive actions due to being startled or hurt (aka growling or biting)? So, let's understand: Sometimes it is the dog's "fault" he cannot fit in. He is not equipped with the social skills of a six-year old human. But with your love and help, you can make it happen.

 

 

[NevadasMom]

It's probably happened to almost all of us. It's hard not to be upset by it. But I'm learning that it's part of the learning process for both of you. I strongly suggest reading about NILIF. It worked wonders with Trolley & really helps you bond. Don't be too hard on yourself....

[greyhoundlov]

I haven't read the entire thread, but Gidge had sleep aggression and slept with her eyes open.

 

We started tossing socks, stuffies (all light, soft things) on her while she was sleeping. If she woke up snarling, we ignored her. If she woke up normally, we gave her a treat. We had two incidents on the bed and was banished for 2 weeks each time. Between the two things, she eventually was fine, to the point that when our kitten (at the time) walked up her body on her ribs towards her neck, I was having a heart attack and expecting a blood bath. She just lifited her head, yawned, and went back to sleep.