What Heartworm Preventative Do You Use?

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

For the obvious financial benefit, as well as its other uses, I use ivermectin.

[Hubcitypam]

A well known greyhound vet and my own vet both told me a greyhound could basically eat all the heartgard it could stand in and not suffer any ill effects from the Ivermectin. The dose is so tiny that is why there is a wide weight range.

 

I must say that I really disagree with the vets you cite. I have seen a 50# boxer that ate a 6 pack of heartgard and was in ICU for 4 days with uncontrolable vomitting, heard tremors, seizures and irregular heartbeats. He lived but was a seizure dog for the rest of his life. Ivermectin can and will cause all sorts of problems if they are given too much.

 

http://worldvillage....se-of-heartgard

 

Even the heartgard website warns of what to look for in an overdose. I feel it is pretty irresponsible for a vet to tell someone that a dog can eat all the Heartgard it wants and not have a problem.

Well, neither vet was telling me to feed Heartgard by the handful instead of soft treats.

 

Where is Aaron when you need him for math and science conversions?...and where is Aaron in general?

I am not that good at math but Ivomec says it delivers 200 mcg Ivermectin per ml and a 51-100 Heartgard contains 272mcg. It would seem if you are giving your 60 pound dogs 6 ccs you are in fact giving them about 4.5 Heartgard brown of Ivermectin.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Hubcitypam

[Guest TheUnrulyHound]

A well known greyhound vet and my own vet both told me a greyhound could basically eat all the heartgard it could stand in and not suffer any ill effects from the Ivermectin. The dose is so tiny that is why there is a wide weight range.

 

I must say that I really disagree with the vets you cite. I have seen a 50# boxer that ate a 6 pack of heartgard and was in ICU for 4 days with uncontrolable vomitting, heard tremors, seizures and irregular heartbeats. He lived but was a seizure dog for the rest of his life. Ivermectin can and will cause all sorts of problems if they are given too much.

 

http://worldvillage....se-of-heartgard

 

Even the heartgard website warns of what to look for in an overdose. I feel it is pretty irresponsible for a vet to tell someone that a dog can eat all the Heartgard it wants and not have a problem.

Well, neither vet was telling me to feed Heartgard by the handful instead of soft treats.

 

I am not that good at math but Ivomec says it delivers 200 mg Ivermectin per ml. It would seem if you are giving your 60 pound dogs 6 ccs you are in fact giving them about 4.5 Heartgard brown of Ivermectin.

 

.6 mL/cc for a 60 lb hound

 

6 mL/cc would be for a 600 pound hound

[Hubcitypam]

I said I wasn't good at math. Ivomec dosage for Dermodex is .3 mg/kg or 10.2 mg for a 75 pound dog. That is 37.5 Heartgard, isn't it?

[Guest TeddysMom]

A well known greyhound vet and my own vet both told me a greyhound could basically eat all the heartgard it could stand in and not suffer any ill effects from the Ivermectin. The dose is so tiny that is why there is a wide weight range.

 

I must say that I really disagree with the vets you cite. I have seen a 50# boxer that ate a 6 pack of heartgard and was in ICU for 4 days with uncontrolable vomitting, heard tremors, seizures and irregular heartbeats. He lived but was a seizure dog for the rest of his life. Ivermectin can and will cause all sorts of problems if they are given too much.

 

http://worldvillage....se-of-heartgard

 

Even the heartgard website warns of what to look for in an overdose. I feel it is pretty irresponsible for a vet to tell someone that a dog can eat all the Heartgard it wants and not have a problem.

Well, neither vet was telling me to feed Heartgard by the handful instead of soft treats.

 

Where is Aaron when you need him for math and science conversions?...and where is Aaron in general?

I am not that good at math but Ivomec says it delivers 200 mcg Ivermectin per ml and a 51-100 Heartgard contains 272mcg. It would seem if you are giving your 60 pound dogs 6 ccs you are in fact giving them about 4.5 Heartgard brown of Ivermectin.

 

If you go back and read my post, I said 6/10ths of a cc not 6cc. Ivermectin is dosed at 1cc per 100lbs.

[Batmom]

Not going to recheck everybody's math, but Hubcitypam is essentially correct that a normal dog would have to eat a lot of Heartgards to suffer ill effects or even get close to what's considered a toxic dose. Per the Merck Manual, dosage for demodex, for example, is 0.3-0.6 mg/kg. For a 55 lb dog, the Heartgard dose is roughly 2%-4% of that. The dose in Heartgard is so small that not even collies & related breeds that may have ivermectin hypersensitivity are likely to react to it.

 

The idea behind monthly heartwormer is to give a teensy tinesy dose of, yes, insecticide in order to kill any heartworm larvae. You only need a teensy dose because the little boogers are susceptible at that stage. In terms of potential for adverse impact on the dog, the difference between marketed dosage levels is minuscule. Your dog probably picks up more insecticide -- and more dangerous insecticide -- if you live next to somebody with a lawn service.

[Guest eaglflyt]

I use Ivermectin. It is the active ingredient in HG and it covers all the worms and is so cheap and you don't have to do the once a year test if you are on time and don't miss any doses. I give it to them with a little canned food once a month and they never know the difference. And I will never tell them it's medicine either. I would have a rebellion on my hands.

 

Sorry, but Ivermectin covers ONLY heartworm prevention. It *does not* treat roundworms, hookworms, whipworms or tapeworms. See this chart as mentioned previously. Pyrantel Pamoate controls rounds and hooks, but not whips and when added to Ivermectin = Heartgard Plus. Milbemycin Oxime (Interceptor) controls heartworms, whips, rounds, & hooks.

 

If you're treating with Ivermectin only, your only preventing heartworms. Your dog is still susceptible to hooks, rounds, whips & tapes!

[Hubcitypam]

If you're treating with Ivermectin only, your only preventing heartworms. Your dog is still susceptible to hooks, rounds, whips & tapes!

That is the difference between Heartgard and Heartgard Plus. Ivermectin only treats heartworms. My discredited vets mentioned earlier both agreed that Heartgard Plus is generally overpriced and one might be better off giving straight Ivermectin (in whatever form you wish) and a heavy duty multi wormer such as Drontal as needed.

[Guest RocketDog]

We used Interceptor in the past, but I use injectable ivermectin now, and worm everyone with pyrantel twice yearly. No oogies so far, and clean HW tests every spring, so it's working for us

[Guest Sweetreba]

I use Revolution cause it is also good for heartworm and also ticks and fleas and mange and ear mites. I do one dose every month. All my dogs have done great on it.

[GeorgeofNE]

Heartgard Plus chewables!

[Guest KennelMom]

liquid ivermectin used here.

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

I use Ivermectin. It is the active ingredient in HG and it covers all the worms and is so cheap and you don't have to do the once a year test if you are on time and don't miss any doses. I give it to them with a little canned food once a month and they never know the difference. And I will never tell them it's medicine either. I would have a rebellion on my hands.

 

Sorry, but Ivermectin covers ONLY heartworm prevention. It *does not* treat roundworms, hookworms, whipworms or tapeworms. See this chart as mentioned previously. Pyrantel Pamoate controls rounds and hooks, but not whips and when added to Ivermectin = Heartgard Plus. Milbemycin Oxime (Interceptor) controls heartworms, whips, rounds, & hooks.

 

If you're treating with Ivermectin only, your only preventing heartworms. Your dog is still susceptible to hooks, rounds, whips & tapes!

I'm confused. On the link you provided it list that Ivermectin only covers Heartworm, but if you actually click on Ivermectin this is what it says

In the mid-1980's, ivermectin was introduced as probably the most broad-spectrum anti-parasite medication ever. It is effective against most common intestinal worms (except tapeworms), most mites, and some lice. It is not effective against fleas, ticks, flies, or flukes. It is effective against larval heartworms (the "microfilariae" that circulate in the blood) but not against adult heartworms (that live in the heart and pulmonary

arteries), though technically it can shorten their lifespan.

 

We have always used Ivermec in the kennels as a basic all around wormer, other then tapes of course.

[Guest KennelMom]

Ivermectin IS effective against common intestinal worms if dosed at the right amount. Just had this conversation with the vet treating Rocky because he wanted to know the likelihood we could be looking at a whipworm infestation. , Since we use liquid Ivomec instead of the pre-packaged pills, he wanted to know our dosage rate. The typical dosage of Ivomec at .1 cc/10lbs body weight will kill off most common intestinal worms (except tapes). The dosage in most pre-packaged HW pills is so small that it will most likely not have any impact on them and will only be effective against heartworms, which is why they may add the second de-wormer.

 

Since we dose at the "general de-worming" level and his fecal was negative, we ruled out worms. If we gave regular pre-packaged hw prevention, one negative fecal probably wouldn't have led him to rule out worms as quickly.

Edited June 11, 2010 by KennelMom

[Guest eaglflyt]

It is only listed as effective in preventing heartworm disease in canines. It can help with roundworms, but the dosage required to treat many canine roundworms or other canine types of worms would be toxic in dogs. It is not effective in treating canine hooks or whips. See this LINK (scroll down to the dogs & cats section).

 

It can also be used to treat ear mites and some other external parasites.

 

In cattle and horses, it is effective in treating many other types of worms that are specific to those species but they can tolerate the much higher dosages that are required.

 

Heartgard Plus chewables has pyrantal pamoate added which will treat hookworms and roundworms in canines. But, NOT whipworms. The ivermectin portion prevents heartworm disease.

 

Interceptor, mylbemycin oxime, is effective in preventing heartworm disease and treating canine roundworms, hookworms and whipworms.

 

Our canine friends just can't tolerate the dosage of ivermectin required to control canine parasites ... it is too toxic for them at those dosages.

 

For those that use ivermectin (Ivomec or other form) only, the canines treated will only have effective heartworm prevention. All other intestinal parasites are open for business.

 

edited to correct error

Edited June 11, 2010 by eaglflyt

[Guest eaglflyt]

The dosage of 1/10th cc of ivermectin for each 10 lbs of body weight in a canine is also controversial. I understand wanting to be economical, truly. However, when a lower dosage of an optional medication is equally or *more* effective at a lower dosage, why hit it with the big dosage of ivermectin? We have a good friend that lost her doberman to ivermectin toxicity/organ failure when dosing him with 0.1 cc per 10 lbs. Her vet verified that the ivermectin dosing was the cause.

 

See this link from the American Board of Veterinary Toxicology for ivermectin safety information in different species.

Edited June 11, 2010 by eaglflyt

[TheFullHouse]

It's the same old argument. You have those who wouldn't use Ivomec and those that will. Greyhounds are given Ivomec to prevent heart worms until they go into adoption. You ask any kennel around and they will tell you that's what they use. Track adoption programs continue to use Ivomec, and I'm sure there are adoption kennels not at tracks that are using it also. We just continued to use what they were used to getting. The only dog in the house that doesn't get Ivomec is Jilly Bean because small breeds do not do well on Ivomec. My vet told us this so Jilly Bean gets Heartguard Plus.

 

I've been giving my dogs Ivomec since the day they came home at the dose of .10 of a cc per 10lbs. of weight and we have never, ever had a problem. Most information you see about Ivomec toxicity are problems with other breeds (usually smaller breeds). I say to each his own, if you're not comfortable using it, then don't.

 

There is more of a danger under dosing Ivomec than over dosing. Heart was under dosed at the adoption kennel for a year and when we brought her home she had heart worms. She was dosed at .30 cc and she weighed 75lbs. She had to undergo heart worm treatments because of being under dosed.

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

Judy's right, this discussion has been had many times before about the safety of Ivomec.

 

All I can say is just from my experiences in using the product. In our kennels and in our home for the last 15+ years.

Our pets in our home are worm free and the kennel, well I would say about 80% of the dogs are worm free.

I stay in close contact with the adoption folks to learn if our hounds heading into retirement have worms because that is useful info for our kennels to have.

We worm with Ivomec and rotate in Safe Guard and Zimecterin Gold every few months.

 

My best guess is that 95% of kennels and farms use Ivomec under the guidance of a board certified vet.

 

But knowing the risks is never a bad thing so thanks for the links.

[Guest Tes623]

A well known greyhound vet and my own vet both told me a greyhound could basically eat all the heartgard it could stand in and not suffer any ill effects from the Ivermectin. The dose is so tiny that is why there is a wide weight range.

 

I must say that I really disagree with the vets you cite. I have seen a 50# boxer that ate a 6 pack of heartgard and was in ICU for 4 days with uncontrolable vomitting, heard tremors, seizures and irregular heartbeats. He lived but was a seizure dog for the rest of his life. Ivermectin can and will cause all sorts of problems if they are given too much.

 

http://worldvillage.com/how-to-tell-the-signs-of-an-overdose-of-heartgard

 

Even the heartgard website warns of what to look for in an overdose. I feel it is pretty irresponsible for a vet to tell someone that a dog can eat all the Heartgard it wants and not have a problem.

Scarlett got into our package of Heartgard Plus and ate 4 of them with no ill effects.

[Guest TeddysMom]

A well known greyhound vet and my own vet both told me a greyhound could basically eat all the heartgard it could stand in and not suffer any ill effects from the Ivermectin. The dose is so tiny that is why there is a wide weight range.

 

I must say that I really disagree with the vets you cite. I have seen a 50# boxer that ate a 6 pack of heartgard and was in ICU for 4 days with uncontrolable vomitting, heard tremors, seizures and irregular heartbeats. He lived but was a seizure dog for the rest of his life. Ivermectin can and will cause all sorts of problems if they are given too much.

 

http://worldvillage.com/how-to-tell-the-signs-of-an-overdose-of-heartgard

 

Even the heartgard website warns of what to look for in an overdose. I feel it is pretty irresponsible for a vet to tell someone that a dog can eat all the Heartgard it wants and not have a problem.

Scarlett got into our package of Heartgard Plus and ate 4 of them with no ill effects.

 

I'm glad that Scarlett had no problems. Just like with people, some dogs have a higher sensitivity to drugs than others. Luckily none of my dogs has had any problems with drug reactions. I think all of us try to make the best decisions for our animals and that is all we can do.

[Guest KennelMom]

 

My best guess is that 95% of kennels and farms use Ivomec under the guidance of a board certified vet.

 

Our vet wrote us an RX for liquid ivomec to be dispensed from a compounding pharmacy. Same strength as the injectable from the farm supply store, but beef flavored. Label had the dosage at .1cc/10lbs body weight. We just use the stuff from the feed store now b/c I can't find a pharmacy to compound it with the beef flavor. But, yeah, even vets for us regular pet folks will prescribe liquid ivomec for hw prevention.

[Batmom]

Hate to be a pest, but I have to wonder if that's why so many greyhounds have hookworm infections. According to this study, for example, http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8410551 , if you do the math, ivermectin alone needs to be dosed at approximately .02 mg/lb or .2 mg/10 lbs to clear 90% of hookworms. It may be cheap, but used alone it is not terribly effective against most intestinal parasites in dogs.

 

BTW, add some pyrantel pamoate -- which is extremely cheap -- to your ivermectin, and you get near 100% efficacy.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Batmom

[krissn333]

Hate to be a pest, but I have to wonder if that's why so many greyhounds have hookworm infections. According to this study, for example, http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8410551 , if you do the math, ivermectin alone needs to be dosed at approximately .02 mg/lb or .2 mg/10 lbs to clear 90% of hookworms. It may be cheap, but used alone it is not terribly effective against most intestinal parasites in dogs.

 

BTW, add some pyrantel pamoate -- which is extremely cheap -- to your ivermectin, and you get near 100% efficacy.

 

 

We are Ivomec users here. With 5 dogs it's economical. Also our vet has no issue with it whatsoever. It's what the kennel dogs get at our group as well.