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So this is perhaps the last piece of my osteo treatment plan puzzle. Has anyone used it or Artemix? If so, can you give me the particulars - what dosage, how often, did you cycle, how did you administer, any additional supplements like butyrate or anti-oxidants, etc.? And what was your experience? Side effects, did it work?

 

I am planning to give it, but I am thinking of doing the treatment plan that the guy who discovered the stuff could work on cancer recommends, which is Artemix at bedtime (2 pills/day for Neyla's size) rather than the 100 mg/day of Artemisinin that Dr. Couto recommends, but I'm torn.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Guest MnMDogs

We didn't get the Artemisinin until it was too late for Matty, and I recall that when I was researching it, there was confusing info on the doses. So I can't help you there.

 

What we did try for her was cold-pressed flax seed oil (a tablespoon or so on cottage cheese), and curcumin and salmon oil caps. My understanding is that they all have anti-inflammatory properties and they were recommended by a member of our group whose hound was diagnosed at the same time.

 

I hope you have a lot more time with your girl, and you get dose info about the artemisinin.

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We were told not to use it when chemo was happening. We did use it after chemo until the end. For us, it made no difference, Polli was gone in 5 months. :(

 

 

ROBIN ~ Mom to: Beau Think It Aint, Chloe JC Allthewayhome, Teddy ICU Drunk Sailor, Elsie N Fracine , Ollie RG's Travertine, Ponch A's Jupiter~ Yoshi, Zoobie & Belle, the kitties.

Waiting at the bridge Angel Polli Bohemian Ocean , Rocky, Blue,Sasha & Zoobie & Bobbi

Greyhound Angels Adoption (GAA) The Lexus Project

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We used it on Cosmo. She only made it about 4 1/2 months post-amp, BUT - Cosmo only got one chemo in before we determined the cancer had spread and had spread a LOT. At that point, our vet thought she might've had about a week left and we upped her dose of Artemisinen to 6 pills a day. We had almost another 7 weeks with her. I don't know for sure if it was the Artemisinin that did it or not, but it was worth every cent as far as I'm concerned.

...............Chase (FTH Smooth Talker), Morgan (Cata), Reggie (Gable Caney), Rufus
(Reward RJ). Fosters check in, but they don't check out.
Forever loved -- Cosmo (System Br Mynoel), March 11, 2002 - October 8, 2009.
Miss Cosmo was a lady. And a lady always knows when to leave.

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I used 100 mg a day with Winnie after her amp. We didn't do chemo. I also used pycnogenol, another immune system booster, and fish oil. I don't know if any of this helped, or if we were just incredibly lucky---maybe a combination of both---but Winnie had 3 1/2 great years with us before we lost her to kidney failure a few weeks shy of her 12th birthday. I was kinda clueless, as the only thing I knew about artemisinin was what I'd read in Celebrating Greyhounds, and then researched online. So I just continued to give it to her the whole time.

 

Sending lots of prayers out to you and Neyla.

gallery_11446_3599_3864.jpg
Nancy, Mom to Evangelina, Kiva and Laila
Missing Lacey, Patsy, Buster, my heart dog Nick, Winnie, Pollyanna, Tess, my precious Lydia, Calvin Lee, and kitties Lily, Sam and Simon
My Etsy shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/Catsburgandhoundtown

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What is the dosage on the Pycnogenol? I used that with my Candy, the first of many of our greyhounds to have Osteo.

Vallerysiggy.jpg

Then God sent the Greyhound to live among man and remember. And when the Day comes,

God will call the Greyhound to give Testament, and God will pass judgment on man.

(Persian Proverb)

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Sutra is taking 200mg artemisinin in the morning. It's to be given on an empty stomach and with something like peanut butter or cheese...no meat as iron makes it less effective. So, he takes it when we get up and I feed him about an hour later.

 

He is also taking the Longevity supplement from Springtime Inc. It's a powder you mix with a wet food. Not being a big fan of commercial canned food, I've added it to ground beef. I am going to try making my own homemade canned food sometime this week. The powder looks disgusting but it must taste good because both he and Ace snarf it down :lol

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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We used it on Cosmo. She only made it about 4 1/2 months post-amp, BUT - Cosmo only got one chemo in before we determined the cancer had spread and had spread a LOT. At that point, our vet thought she might've had about a week left and we upped her dose of Artemisinen to 6 pills a day. We had almost another 7 weeks with her. I don't know for sure if it was the Artemisinin that did it or not, but it was worth every cent as far as I'm concerned.

What dosage were the pills you were giving?

 

Thanks for the responses so far. I need to make a decision and order tomorrow as I want to get her on it asap. She is going to be on quite the cocktail. Trying to restrain myself from trying everything but teh kitchen sink and go with the things that are backed by good research, but I'm still ending up with a good number of things.

 

MnMDogs, I started her on fish oil a couple of weeks ago. It was the first thing we did (my vet had recommended we do it when she still thought it was a muscle injury), but I'm currently upping the amt a bit to an appropriate cancer dosage. Had worked her up to 3 pumps of Grizzly salmon oil per day but the holistic vet said she could have double that if she could tolerate it for cancer (1000mg/10lb).

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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We got the 100 mg capsules from holleypharma.com. I gave her 3 pills twice a day.

 

Also, we put her on a high protein low carb diet; I imagine your research has led you there as well.

...............Chase (FTH Smooth Talker), Morgan (Cata), Reggie (Gable Caney), Rufus
(Reward RJ). Fosters check in, but they don't check out.
Forever loved -- Cosmo (System Br Mynoel), March 11, 2002 - October 8, 2009.
Miss Cosmo was a lady. And a lady always knows when to leave.

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We got the 100 mg capsules from holleypharma.com. I gave her 3 pills twice a day.

 

Also, we put her on a high protein low carb diet; I imagine your research has led you there as well.

Interesting, that is a lot more than I have read is recommended. Good to know that you didn't have side effects from it - I've heard there typically aren't any, but a study on monkeys is just not the same as hearing it from other people.

 

Neyla has actually been rawfed (prey model) for some time so we have the high protein low carb diet under control at least. I've stopped giving her even treats with carbs, with the exception of Burpdog biscuits, which I could not deprive her of! :shakefinger

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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We got the 100 mg capsules from holleypharma.com. I gave her 3 pills twice a day.

 

Also, we put her on a high protein low carb diet; I imagine your research has led you there as well.

Interesting, that is a lot more than I have read is recommended. Good to know that you didn't have side effects from it - I've heard there typically aren't any, but a study on monkeys is just not the same as hearing it from other people.

 

Neyla has actually been rawfed (prey model) for some time so we have the high protein low carb diet under control at least. I've stopped giving her even treats with carbs, with the exception of Burpdog biscuits, which I could not deprive her of! :shakefinger

 

Actually, I got the dosage here : Bone cancer dogs under the Complementary Therapies section.

...............Chase (FTH Smooth Talker), Morgan (Cata), Reggie (Gable Caney), Rufus
(Reward RJ). Fosters check in, but they don't check out.
Forever loved -- Cosmo (System Br Mynoel), March 11, 2002 - October 8, 2009.
Miss Cosmo was a lady. And a lady always knows when to leave.

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What is the dosage on the Pycnogenol? I used that with my Candy, the first of many of our greyhounds to have Osteo.

 

I gave her 1 capsule a day, at a different time than the artemisinin. You can get pycnogenol at Vitamin World---it's actually an immune system booster for humans.

gallery_11446_3599_3864.jpg
Nancy, Mom to Evangelina, Kiva and Laila
Missing Lacey, Patsy, Buster, my heart dog Nick, Winnie, Pollyanna, Tess, my precious Lydia, Calvin Lee, and kitties Lily, Sam and Simon
My Etsy shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/Catsburgandhoundtown

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What is the dosage on the Pycnogenol? I used that with my Candy, the first of many of our greyhounds to have Osteo.

 

I gave her 1 capsule a day, at a different time than the artemisinin. You can get pycnogenol at Vitamin World---it's actually an immune system booster for humans.

I just got around to looking this up - I didn't realize what it was, but see that it's extract from maritime pine trees, which I came across somewhere else in my research. I was told that you should give an anti-oxident supplement in the mornings to "clean up" after the artemisinin, which you give at night. I believe the artemisinin working actually produces free radicals so you don't want to give the anti-oxidants with it, but you want them around afterward to clear them out (this is me probably very poorly conveying what I've read). Anyway, I hadn't gotten to settling on a supplement, but I think this one looks promising. Although it does say that it acts to recycle vitamins like A & E so I don't know if I should still give both. I am trying not to go overboard here on supplements and failing somewhat miserably. :P

 

The guy who discovered artemisinin's cancer fighting properties also mentioned I could give butyrate alongside the artemisinin - it's supposed to enhance it's effects. But that's yet another supplement! :dunno:riphair

 

I need to order the Artemisinin, whatever I decide to go with today. I've waited too long and we're going away on Saturday so I need it to arrive before we leave!

Edited by NeylasMom

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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So I ordered my supplements. I decided to go with the 100 mg/day of Artemisinin that Dr. Couto is now recommending along with 40 mg/day of Artemether that is part of the supplement that Dr. Singh recommended as a sort of compromise b/c the Artemix he recommend is quite expensive if I'm to give 2 caplets/day (he recommends 1-2). For future reference, I thought I'd share his full email. FYI, for those of you who don't know, Dr. Singh and Dr. Lai are the researchers who originally thought that artemisinin could kill cancer cells and conducted a study:

 

You may try Artemix from Wellcare (http://www.hepalin.com/artemix.htm Email: hepalin@gmail.com Tel: 310-377-0056 or 877-728 2073) may be better as it contains artemisinin, artesunate and artemether. Calculate doses based on artemether contents (1 to 2mg/lb/day) as artemisinin and artesunate are very safe and do not matter from safety point of view. So if your pet weighs 55 lbs, and artemix has 40 mg artemether, one to two capsules per day is enough if given as mentioned below. You may continue treatment every day for 8 weeks. If a response is noted (symptoms, signs, MRI, CAT), then switch to alternate days for 3 to 4 months. If no response in 8 weeks, switch to other therapy. The pet should not have radiations in last 2 months.

 

Suspend capsules contents in whole milk and fill up in a syringe to give orally or wrap the capsules in cottage cheese and let the pet eat it 3 to 4 hours after dinner. After giving the artemix, if it is feasible, wrap the tumor bearing area with soft cloth/towel to keep it warm and increase blood circulation. Add low doses of antioxidants, specifically, 250 mg of vitamin C and 200 units of vitamin E around breakfast and lunch.

 

Let the pet drink plenty of water during therapy and plenty of pleasant, playful exercise, particularly after dinner for 2 to 3 hours. Inactive and old pet with poor health responds poorly to treatment. Iron supplements are NOT necessary. Avoid iron rich food, such as meat, 3 to 4 hours before dose. Get the pet evaluated before and after this treatment (ultrasound, biopsy, X-rays and etc.) to see if the treatment is effective.

 

Additionally, the pet may be given 4 capsules of butyrate (15863 N. Greenway-Hayden Loop, Ste 120 Scottsdale, AZ 85260, Phone: 1-866-601-5800, http://www.jigsawhealth.com/supplements/butyrex) at the same time along with Artemix.

 

I actually found the same butyrate supplement on jigsaw.com - with a promo code of "OOPS" that gives you $10 off, it's the best price although Holley Pharm also sells it so you can lump it into your Artemisinin order. I haven't ordered yet, but I think I will. Still need to figure out what I'll use for anti-oxidants yet.

 

Dr. Singh did also say that giving the pills with fish oil would be okay. I've read a lot of recommendations online to give it with cod oil so I feel good about that - we'll be doing that since the fish oil is a part of our regimen already and I have mixed feelings about giving dogs dairy. The point is just to give it with something high in fat b/c artemisinin (and artemether) are fat soluble and it should help with absorption.

 

Thanks for all of the input. I hope that this thread will help others in the future as well.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Guest bigorangedog

Sutra is taking 200mg artemisinin in the morning. It's to be given on an empty stomach and with something like peanut butter or cheese...no meat as iron makes it less effective. So, he takes it when we get up and I feed him about an hour later.

 

This is what we did with Whitey (lived 5.5 months post-amp, but in hindsight probably had mets pre-amp), and are doing with Apollo (who is now 4 mo post-amp and healthy so far).

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