A Euthanasia Question

[galgrey]

Just seeing this. I'm so very sorry, Susan.

[Guest Whistle]

Susan, I am so so sorry, both for your loss and because even after trying to get answers to make the process as painless as possible, things didn't go as expected.

 

I will be calling hte vet that I hope will come to my home when the time comes and will be asking her these questions. I'll let you know what seh says.

 

I do have a really morbid question for those of you who have had the vet come to your home. When it's over, obviously teh vet needs to remove the body. What did you do while that happened? Did you stay in teh room, did you go with them outisde, did you leave the room until they were gone?

 

I've only done this with one animal, my childhood cat who I took to the vet and I made the mistake of trying to pick him up to hold him after it was over. Naturally his body was limp and that is an image/feeling I will never forget so I'm afraid of seeing that again but it doesn't feel right to just leave the room. I suppose maybe that is somethign I will just know when teh time comes, but I would like to hear what other people have done. Wow, I can't think of a worse thing to talk about.

 

Afterward, they went to the car to get a stretcher. They were gone less than a minute. I sat next to him and took his collar off while they were gone. When they came back in, they gently moved him to a stretcher. I laid his favorite stuffy on it and covered him with my favorite blanket I had cut in half. He was cremated with half and I still have the other half. I couldn't bring myself to walk out to the car but asked my husband to. He walked my boy out to their SUV where he said they gently laid him in the back. When I have to do it again, I hope it goes the same way. I wouldn't do anything different.

[Guest mhall]

Things didn't go as well as I wanted for Wizard, but I have 3 more aging hounds, and I want to get it right for them.

 

I'm so, so sorry it didn't go as you hoped. It's really hard to watch them struggle.

 

We had a similar experience with our Tarmac, though in his case it wasn't the sedative that caused the reaction, but being poked at in general. They insisted on giving him a sedative because even with several people restraining him they didn't think they'd be able to hold him still long enough to get all of the euthanasia injection in. He had some fear aggression issues at the vet anyway, and the his last few days he was in a lot of pain and wouldn't let anyone other than me or DH anywhere near him.

 

 

I'm so sorry Susan.

 

I have seen euthanasia from both sides, both as the pet owner and as a vet tech. There is no perfect solution, it depends on the animal.

 

At the vet where I worked, and at my own vet, sedatives are only given to dogs that are aggressive or extremely difficult to handle. It may be stressful or scary to receive the sedative shot, but it's usually far less stressful than struggling to place an IV catheter or trying to find a vein for the euthanasia injection.

 

Sometimes there are strange reactions to sedatives or even to the actual euthanasia injection, but that usually can't be helped. One of my ferrets had uncontrollable muscle twitching for 10-15 minutes after he was put down. I remember sitting in the room with his body waiting for his whiskers to stop moving. He also had what looked like "hiccups" as his abdomen kept twitching. I thought he was still breathing and made the vet check for a heartbeat. I know he was gone and didn't feel any of this, but it was traumatic for me.

 

I had to put a foster dog (non-Grey) to sleep for extreme aggression issues and the vet gave an intramuscular sedative in the hind leg, they were afraid to handle him otherwise. Once he was sleepy she gave the final shot in the front leg. It was pretty painless and went quickly, but it did bother me a bit that Brutus was "out of it" for so long. I talked to him and gave him treats, and he tried to eat them, but he couldn't. He also fought the sedative and kept swaying back and forth, falling and trying to get up, it was hard to watch. But given the alternatives I think it was the best way. He would have freaked out if they tried to muzzle him or hold him down. At least this way he got to go with his head in my lap and he never had to fight to be restrained.

 

Placing the IV catheter is extremely stressful for some animals. That's why the vet staff takes them into the back to do it, they don't want the owner to be upset by seeing their pet struggling and fighting. For the owner it may be easier, the animal leaves the room, they return with a catheter, and the shot is given easily. But for some animals I think it would be less stressful to be given a sedative or for the vet to search for a vein in the exam room with the owner present.

 

I helped place many IV catheters in my time and I was glad the owners weren't there to see the struggle. There were some dogs that were really easy to place a catheter, especially dogs like Greyhounds with easy to find veins. Like Batmom said it's about the same as drawing blood, but if your dog freaks out for blood draws chances are they'll freak out for a catheter too, it depends how they are feeling. It's also a sore topic for me because my Shepherd mix Nicki was one of those strugglers when I had to put her down in 2005. She was aggressive at the vet but they couldn't muzzle her because she was having difficulty breathing. They didn't want to place a catheter in her front leg because that's where the teeth were, so they tried for at least 15 minutes to place a catheter in one of her hind legs. My aunt and I were in the back room with them while the techs were struggling to do this and Nicki was freaking out, it was absolutely horrible. I was about to freakin give her the injection myself! Finally the vet just gave her the injection in a front leg (what they should have done all along) and Nicki passed quickly. I'll never forgive myself for letting them fight for that stupid catheter, it stressed her unnecessarily.

 

For small animals it can be extremely difficult to find a vein. The easiest way to euthanize a small animal is often a direct injection to the heart, but understandably that is very traumatic for most owners to witness. They usually take small animals into the back and use a sedative to calm them, then place an IV catheter. When I had to put my ferrets to sleep they used gas in the back to make them sleepy, then placed the catheter. They brought them back into the room and did the injection into the catheter. Both of my ferrets liked being handled and weren't afraid of the vet, so I didn't really worry about them going in back.

 

Anyway, my point in all this is that it depends on the dog. For some dogs a sedative is better than being restrained for an IV catheter. For dogs that are fine with blood draws and don't mind going into the back without their owner, they will probably be fine getting a catheter and that might be the way to go.

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

This is helpful information. I do think the "right way" to go really depends on the dog, and for some dogs that are nervous or aggressive there isn't necessarily a good or easy way .

Edited June 8, 2010 by mhall

[Guest Gert]

My vet was excellent in his explanations, and had warned us that some urine or feces may leak out after she had passed.

 

It's been a long time since I lost my first grey, Maurice. But, if I recall correctly, my vet gave him two shots in the front leg, the first was some kind of sedative. (Maurice had been a blood donor before I adopted him, so, he wasn't really scared of the vet.) I was sitting on the floor with him, his head in my lap. During his final moments, he did lift his head and gasp for air....broke my heart. But, the vet assured me that that was his body reacting...that he was completely out. Once he was gone, his bladder did empty onto his bed.

 

Nobody warned me that this might happen. So, even though it's not something you want to think about, know that this could happen (happened with my kitty, too).

 

 

 

Susan, I'm so sorry Wizard's passing was stressful.

 

I think Lindsay is right. There is no perfect solution for every animal....we just do the best we can.

[Guest IGmom4now]

I asked my vet for a pre-med sedative. She prescribed Xanax for Stella, to be given prior if needed. She didn't need it, but it has helped me!

[Guest Samantha]

With Wizard declining, I have one nagging question about euthanasia meds--I'm going to talk to our vet later today. When we put our sweetheart Simon to sleep, the "sedative", (same one they used pre-surgery) made her rather suddenly anxious and active just before she got the shot to end things. I'm hoping not to have a repeat of that in the future, and my dogs all respond that way to pre-meds for surgery. I want to ask the vet about better methods of sedation we can use, especially as Wizard has become very sensitive, even to things like blood being drawn and the vitamin B shot. He's been through a lot, and I want to make this final procedure comfortable for him.

 

what is the gentlest but strongest way to sedate a dog for this? I'm thinking the med they give dogs to knock them out for brief procedures that they then reverse with another shot works better. Could that be used? Forgive me; I don't know the names of any of these drugs.

 

Help?

 

My brother when he was 16 insisted on taking his own greyhound in to be PTS, he has been there before, but wanted to do it alone as she was his girl. The vet just gave her the shot and she went, that was 30 years ago, and to this day he has never been able to go through it again, she howled. We have a sedative given before hand now. Im sorry your having to ask these questions, and I know you will choose whatevers right for you and your hound. Big hugs to you both xx

[Guest SusanP]

I'm so sorry Susan.

 

I have seen euthanasia from both sides, both as the pet owner and as a vet tech. There is no perfect solution, it depends on the animal.

 

At the vet where I worked, and at my own vet, sedatives are only given to dogs that are aggressive or extremely difficult to handle. It may be stressful or scary to receive the sedative shot, but it's usually far less stressful than struggling to place an IV catheter or trying to find a vein for the euthanasia injection.

 

Sometimes there are strange reactions to sedatives or even to the actual euthanasia injection, but that usually can't be helped. One of my ferrets had uncontrollable muscle twitching for 10-15 minutes after he was put down. I remember sitting in the room with his body waiting for his whiskers to stop moving. He also had what looked like "hiccups" as his abdomen kept twitching. I thought he was still breathing and made the vet check for a heartbeat. I know he was gone and didn't feel any of this, but it was traumatic for me.

 

I had to put a foster dog (non-Grey) to sleep for extreme aggression issues and the vet gave an intramuscular sedative in the hind leg, they were afraid to handle him otherwise. Once he was sleepy she gave the final shot in the front leg. It was pretty painless and went quickly, but it did bother me a bit that Brutus was "out of it" for so long. I talked to him and gave him treats, and he tried to eat them, but he couldn't. He also fought the sedative and kept swaying back and forth, falling and trying to get up, it was hard to watch. But given the alternatives I think it was the best way. He would have freaked out if they tried to muzzle him or hold him down. At least this way he got to go with his head in my lap and he never had to fight to be restrained.

 

Placing the IV catheter is extremely stressful for some animals. That's why the vet staff takes them into the back to do it, they don't want the owner to be upset by seeing their pet struggling and fighting. For the owner it may be easier, the animal leaves the room, they return with a catheter, and the shot is given easily. But for some animals I think it would be less stressful to be given a sedative or for the vet to search for a vein in the exam room with the owner present.

 

I helped place many IV catheters in my time and I was glad the owners weren't there to see the struggle. There were some dogs that were really easy to place a catheter, especially dogs like Greyhounds with easy to find veins. Like Batmom said it's about the same as drawing blood, but if your dog freaks out for blood draws chances are they'll freak out for a catheter too, it depends how they are feeling. It's also a sore topic for me because my Shepherd mix Nicki was one of those strugglers when I had to put her down in 2005. She was aggressive at the vet but they couldn't muzzle her because she was having difficulty breathing. They didn't want to place a catheter in her front leg because that's where the teeth were, so they tried for at least 15 minutes to place a catheter in one of her hind legs. My aunt and I were in the back room with them while the techs were struggling to do this and Nicki was freaking out, it was absolutely horrible. I was about to freakin give her the injection myself! Finally the vet just gave her the injection in a front leg (what they should have done all along) and Nicki passed quickly. I'll never forgive myself for letting them fight for that stupid catheter, it stressed her unnecessarily.

 

For small animals it can be extremely difficult to find a vein. The easiest way to euthanize a small animal is often a direct injection to the heart, but understandably that is very traumatic for most owners to witness. They usually take small animals into the back and use a sedative to calm them, then place an IV catheter. When I had to put my ferrets to sleep they used gas in the back to make them sleepy, then placed the catheter. They brought them back into the room and did the injection into the catheter. Both of my ferrets liked being handled and weren't afraid of the vet, so I didn't really worry about them going in back.

 

Anyway, my point in all this is that it depends on the dog. For some dogs a sedative is better than being restrained for an IV catheter. For dogs that are fine with blood draws and don't mind going into the back without their owner, they will probably be fine getting a catheter and that might be the way to go.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

This is really helpful; thank you. It helps me understand better why the vet did it the way she did, though I"ve certainly had better euthanasia experiences in the past. Wizard reacted to the pain of the injection, nothing else. I wish she could have used a less painful sedative (perhaps not in a muscle?), especially as his illness had caused him to become hypersensitive. But I know that the premed sedative they use for surgery often makes my guys stressed, which it did to Simon when she was put down. Still, it was better than this!

 

Are there other sedatives they can give subcutaneously that would be less painful? I was with my Labrador years ago when she was put down at age 14, and I think there was only the one shot, though she had an oral sedative first. What oral sedatives can be used? I don't like the idea of my dog struggling as they put an IV in without me there *at all*; I feel that I should be there with him/her. I would prefer no struggling.

 

I've had two house rabbits put down with the needle into the heart method, and it was very peaceful, not stressful at all.

 

There has to be an ideal way to do this. Unless I can figure this out, I'm going to be very afraid the next time, especially if we use the same vet.

[Batmom]

My vet has always been able to use IV sedation, even when there wasn't time/ability to place a catheter. I've not seen any other kind than intravenous. It may be that your vet felt Wizard wouldn't be calm enough for any other type of sedation. Perhaps when some time has passed, you might steel yourself to ask her ... but I would certainly understand if you did not.

 

When a catheter has been placed, it's been my choice to watch that procedure or not. On a dog who is moderately calm, it really is @ like a blood draw.

 

For us, the process has been peaceful but even with IV meds, catheter, etc. the dog's nerves and physiology can react in some non-calm ways.

[macoduck]

My vet gave Niña one injection into her thigh as a mild sedation. She also gave it time to work - maybe 4-5 minutes. She said it might sting going in but Niña didn't react to it.

Niña perked up at about the 4 minute mark for a few seconds but then relaxed. My guess is that she finally was feeling less pain and was taking one last look around.

For the final shot the vet inserted a butterfly needle (not a large bore catheter) and held it in place. And then she slipped away.

 

When I pick up her ashes I'll ask what the sedative was.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I know that my Sam has issues with some sedatives, so I'm braced for a potentially nightmarish situation if I have to face that (if he doesn't go peacefully in his sleep some time--far down the road, please god).

 

But I've also heard Sam hootin' and hollerin' in his sleep like you wouldn't believe. I've known him to scream bloody murder and wake himself up. (I don't know if he had a muscle cramp or what, but the second he woke up he stopped screaming. He went right back to sleep...took my heart quite a while to settle down.) So I'm busily telling myself that noise from Sam doesn't necessarily mean he's in pain, or frightened, or anything else really bad. Noise from Sam is...noise from Sam. (He's got the GSOD down pat.)

 

On the other hand, when Oreo died I wasn't there. She died in surgery (threw a blood clot), and the surgeon called to tell me they were having problems and were doing CPR. I could hear horrific noises in the background on that phone call, and I think I screamed at the doctor and told him to stop and let her go. I don't know if I was hearing her or another dog. If I was hearing something from her, she wouldn't be aware of anything. (They were trying to bring her out of the anesthesia and she wasn't getting oxygen although she was on O2. The vet said pulmonary embolism...) But I can still hear that noise as if it happened yesterday (plus her screams as I drove her to the e-vet after she broke her leg, and the way she cried out the last time I saw her before the surgery), so all my personal warnings about Sam and noise won't really be enough to get me through it if he has a hard time. (Damn! Now I'm starting to cry...)

 

I'm reading all the posts on this thread and hoping I never need any of this information. But if something goes wrong suddenly, I'm going to need to know what to watch out for at the vet's. I won't have time to log onto Greytalk and look up posts about what I should do, so I'm grateful for this thread.

[Guest Energy11]

IMO the kindest way is to have an iv cath placed first. That way propofol can be administered first--that way the pet will be sleeping when the final injection is given.

 

This is the procedure we followed with Misty, and I felt it was the kindest method to say goodbye

 

 

WE followed the same procedure with Energy, Dasher, and Max... it is a VERY good idea to have the IV catherter placed, and the dog pre-medicated. NEVER a fun subject, I am afraid. Good Luck and lots of love !

[Guest boondog]

I'm sorry to hear about Wizard's passing. I want to thank all of you who have shared your stories. I've never had to go through this and these are the kinds of things I've wondered about but never asked. My heart goes out to all of you.

[macoduck]

My vet gave Niña one injection into her thigh as a mild sedation. She also gave it time to work - maybe 4-5 minutes. She said it might sting going in but Niña didn't react to it.

Niña perked up at about the 4 minute mark for a few seconds but then relaxed. My guess is that she finally was feeling less pain and was taking one last look around.

For the final shot the vet inserted a butterfly needle (not a large bore catheter) and held it in place. And then she slipped away.

 

When I pick up her ashes I'll ask what the sedative was.

 

Updating to add that the sedative given to Niña was Dexdomitor. Initially after the injection she was calm but she had a small flurry of movement that lasted a few seconds. None of it looked to be pain or fear. I think she was reacting to the vet coming back in the room after giving the injection a few minutes to take affect. The "flurry" was some tail wagging and smiling - nothing that showed distress.

[Guest SusanP]

After reading this thread, I think my main focus in the future will be to avoid injections into the muscle at all costs, and probably to have an oral sedative on board before we get to the vet's. Does that sound right?

 

I understand that IV sedation is probably ideal, but are there some sedatives that are give subcutaneously? I'm wondering if that's another option.

 

Still have no idea what we'll do about continuing to go to this vet.

[IndyandHollyluv]

Susan - I am so very sorry about Wizard. Some of these posts were painful to read and I am sad for all whose euthanasia experience was filled with regret or guilt.

 

I had to say goodbye to my first hound, Indy, in February -- so this has been my first and only euthanasia experience. I elected to take Indy to the vet who had performed acupuncture on him for over one year. This vet is about as compassionate as they come.

 

I had read about different euthanasia techniques but I ultimately deferred to the vet as to the approach he thought best for Indy.

 

I suppose which techinique is utilized may depend on the dog -- fear, anxiety, degree of mobility, gravity of illness, owner's wishes, etc. Indy had nasal cancer but was still mobile, eating, smiling (I didn't want to wait a day too late) -- so he was in relatively good spirits while at the vet's office.

 

I suspect some of what the vet explained did not penetrate my cranium as I was clearly devastated at the pending loss of my heart dog. Anyway, the vet tech took Indy in the back room, placed an IV cath or port (?), taped to his hind ankle. She brought him back to the room and the vet explained what would happen, what to expect, and what we needed to do. He said after the injection was administered Indy would slowly collapse and I was to support his front legs and ease him down. So when I was ready - that's what we did. The vet or tech adminstered the injection (Indy did briefly wimper at little at the start of the injection but not a big deal) and held Indy as he slowly collapsed (if you will).

 

The vet listened with his stethescope and softly told me when Indy's heart stopped beating. In Indy's case, there was no urination, defecation, or other neurological body movements.

 

I can only say that it went as well as I could have hoped for. I have no regrets with my decision or the process. Indy did not appear to suffer, which was of utmost importance to me.

 

I am very teary as I type this so even when all goes swimmingly well, it is still bittersweet.