What Could Have Done This?

[Guest bigorangedog]

So, we have this adoptable named Hammie. He's a 100-lb black alpha male with a cutoff tail, and has been waiting over a year for a home. (He probably can't live with another male dog, unless an experienced owner is willing to work with the alpha issues.) But he is SWEET SWEET SWEET, loves people, loves kids, will sit on your lap. You can see him here.

 

Anyway, at "late night potty" turnout on Tuesday, he came in limping a little. DH looked at his leg/foot but didn't see anything. When we got up yesterday morning, it was a little swollen, and by afternoon it was swollen up to the wrist joint. I called the orthopedic vet to ask whether he thought I needed to do xrays. Dr Pete knows that we're on a limited budget with MNGR, so he said it's probably a soft-tissue injury (or sprain) since he is putting some weight on it, so just to ice it and give him some Deramaxx, and if it's not better in a day or two then we'll xray.

 

So, okay, that's what we did. I fully expected to wake up this morning and find that the swelling was down a little and he was feeling a little better. NOPE!

 

Between midnight last night and 6AM today, it had swelled up HUGE up to his shoulder and he had actually chewed through his skin in several places and it was all juicy and oozing like crazy. Super duper gross.

 

Up to the vet I went. My regular vet, Dr Meg, and the ortho vet Dr Pete both took a look and agreed that it looked like a reaction to venom. She said that if I lived in the Southwest, she would think a rattlesnake bite. But since I live in Minnesota, her best guess is a wolf spider or brown spider and he just had a crazy reaction to it.

 

I have never seen anything like this, and am now afraid to go out in my backyard. I am NOT a bug person. Ack!!

 

So, what might have done this to poor Hamms?? Anyone have experience with this kind of thing??

 

They think all the tissue on the front of his leg where it is raw is going to slough off, and I am doing a wet-to-dry bandage on it (plus DMSO gel around the wound and over all the swelling), plus amoxicillin and metronidazole. (I have NO problem flushing out gross wounds, digging out sutures, you name it - but I do NOT do bugs!!!)

 

Any thoughts??

Jen

[Guest Energy11]

BROWN RECLUSE SPIDER bites can do what you are describing!

 

They ARE TISSUE NECROTIC (***kills the tissue where they bite ***) almost like the "Flesh Eating" thing ....

 

I'd call the vet and mention this, AND see if the vet doesn't think IV OR IM BENEDRYL is in order ... NOW!

 

Sending prayers and lots of love, and good luck!

 

 

[Guest sheila]

There are some rare but poisonous snakes in some parts of Minnesota

 

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/reptiles_amphibians/snakes/index.html

 

Here is a link about different spiders that could be venomous

 

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/dd6962.html

[Guest Energy11]

DO YOU, per chance, have a photo of this "bite?"

[Guest bigorangedog]

The vet mentioned a brown spider or wolf spider... And while there I asked doesn't he need some Benadryl or something and they both said no. ???

 

He is in his wet-to-dry bandage right now but I plan to take a photo when I redo it before bed, mostly so I can better keep track of whether it is getting better or worse.

 

It is pretty ugly looking, though...

[Guest Energy11]

The vet mentioned a brown spider or wolf spider... And while there I asked doesn't he need some Benadryl or something and they both said no. ???

 

He is in his wet-to-dry bandage right now but I plan to take a photo when I redo it before bed, mostly so I can better keep track of whether it is getting better or worse.

 

It is pretty ugly looking, though...

 

I HAVE TO preface this with the statement ... I am NOT a veterinarian,", but if it were MY dog, I'd give 50 mg of Benedryl, NOW, and then, every four to six hours. Can't hurt! Good Luck! Poor baby!

[TheFullHouse]

There was one of the pups that got a bite from the brown recluse when I used to work at the adoption kennel. That leg got really bad before it got better. Like you mentioned, the skin sloughed off before new skin grew. It looked really bad for a while but then healed up nicely.

[Hubcitypam]

DeVon (Tenderhearts) can tell you how awful spider bites can be. Hugs to you and Hammie.

[Guest bigorangedog]

Called my vet for reassurance. She said yeah, brown recluse spider is what they assume it is since it's the "worst case scenario" for this part of the country. Asked again about the Benadryl and she said nope. She said the antibiotics treat it. So! Guess that is what I'm going to do...

 

Yeah, I am expecting it to get pretty ugly. There are three big spots where he must've been bit that are now open wounds, and she said that she does expect the tissue between and around them to necrose. Blecch. This is by no means my first disgusting wound, but wet-to-dry bandaging for a month is certainly not my favorite thing to do.

 

Can't believe I have never heard of this spider before, with all the dogs we have had through here.

[ahicks51]

The consensus is that telling what caused the bite from looking at it is like telling which way the train went by looking at the tracks. The studies show that when medical professionals looked at bites from known causes (without knowing the cause), they were no better than chance at telling what did it.

 

However, with the first signs of necrosis at any envenomation site, you may have to consider debridement as that could be brown recluse. If there are two wounds at least a few mm apart, then it could be snake envenomation; snakebite would likely have hemotoxic effects- you wouldn't have neurotoxic snakes up there, unless one got loose from a collection- and those could show up in a blood panel.

 

There are rattlers in Minnesota, but they're pretty rare. Often they'll bite the nose, from an inquisitive dog; if the snake got stepped on, that might explain the foot/ankle bite. There may be too much swelling to tell by now where the original injury was.

[Guest Energy11]

Called my vet for reassurance. She said yeah, brown recluse spider is what they assume it is since it's the "worst case scenario" for this part of the country. Asked again about the Benadryl and she said nope. She said the antibiotics treat it. So! Guess that is what I'm going to do...

 

Yeah, I am expecting it to get pretty ugly. There are three big spots where he must've been bit that are now open wounds, and she said that she does expect the tissue between and around them to necrose. Blecch. This is by no means my first disgusting wound, but wet-to-dry bandaging for a month is certainly not my favorite thing to do.

 

Can't believe I have never heard of this spider before, with all the dogs we have had through here.

Yep! GOOD MOVE for sure, checking with your vet. We have these UGLY SPIDERS all over the place here! UGH!! I found on in my SHOWER the other day!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Good Luck, and sounds like you are on the right path.

[Guest GreyFan09]

Poor Hammie. I hope he gets better really soon. Just the thought of a spider like that in my yard will keep me up tonight, and I've killed some doozies in my yard. Yuck!

[Guest bigorangedog]

Here's the photo from evening bandage change. The swelling is going down, so that's good. DMSO is working great on him, just like it did when we used it on Whitey. I hate the taste it makes in your mouth though, even with gloves!!

 

[ahicks51]

Use butyl rubber gloves with DMSO. Anything else risks carrying anything contained in the DMSO, or picked up from the gloves, into your bloodstream.

[Guest PhillyPups]

Awww poor Hammie.

 

That looks nasty!!

 

 

My newest boy, DonJuan is still healing/recovering from a cotton mouth snake bite he received April 21, exactly one month ago today.

 

Healing thoughts for Hammie.

[Guest Energy11]

Wow... that does look pretty nasty. I would bet on a Brown Recluse Spider bite, but no matter, as long as it heals and he gets better SOON!

 

Sending lots of love his way!

[Guest bigorangedog]

Day 2 of the spider bite. Y-U-C-K. But Hammie is in better spirits today, anyway. Just did his bandage change.

 

[jamngrey]

ya that is yucckie. I do have a friend whos grey had the same issue and was able to recover (tho he does have quite scar). I do believe the did the Sugar bandage trick. Good luck

[Guest SusanP]

Yikes! Our neighbor got bit by a brown recluse when I was a teenager. She had a hole the size of a tennis ball in her thigh. It was shocking, but she got better and is a feisty 70-something today. Sending all kinds of healing thoughts to your boy.

[jamngrey]

jusst checking in on Hammies progress

[Guest SueG201]

wow all this from a spider

[grey14me]

Poor guy...man, this freaks me out!

[Fruitycake]

There are definitely brown recluses in the area. They have been expanding their original territory north and used to be extremely rare up here and now are more common than I would really like (any is too many!).

 

Good luck to the poor guy.

[TheFullHouse]

That's what the dog in the kennel looked like after being bitten. It's going to take a while but should heal up nicely.

[Guest bigorangedog]

Here are Days 3 & 4 of the spider bite.

 

 

 

Last night at bandage change it bled like crazy, which it hasn't been doing before. I think (and my vet agrees) that he was starting to get some new tissue growth going, but I disturbed it when I changed the wrap. I have to take Apollo in for chemo tomorrow, so I'll bring Ham-dog along for a look-see just for the fun of it, but I am pretty sure we are on the right track. No signs of infection yet, and today for the first time he is putting weight on it normally. Just looks super gross.

 

For those with brown recluse experience -- what dog-safe bug killer can I put in the yard that will annihilate the little ba$t@rds??