Final Hour Wizard Help

[Guest SusanP]

Please anyone, tell me if this is crazy. Wizard is on prednisone for possible IBD (without diarrhea or vomiting). When he began taking prednisone and metronidizole, he got worse quickly--muscle spasms in his head/jaw, iffy apptetite got much worse, tiredness and wobbliness increased. Vet took him off of metronidizole and upped the prednisone, put him on a course of doxycycline and he seemed to get slightly better--ate better for a day or so, fewer spasms, less wobbliness. But he's gradually gotten worse again, spasms, eating only babyfood and peanutbutter, restless, seems unsteady. Vet's conclusion is that his problem is probably neurological, and we were going to put him to sleep this morning--because he seems mostly miserable and has been for way too long, and because the vet(specialist) thinks it's time.

 

But she has not been willing to try taking him off the prednisone. We send her an email one last time asking if we could get him off it or switch to a different med, but so far no response, and for all I know she's gone for the weekend.

 

Instead of taking him to our regular vet at 9am to put him down, I want to ask her if she'll help us take him off the prednisone first to see if it helps. Does this sound sensible to you? I don't want to put Wizard through foolish experiments, but we'll never know if the doxycycline did anything for him if the prednisone is making him so sick we have to put him down.

 

The specialist doesn't seem to think the pred is causing his problems, and she may well be right, but I see that human side effects of prednisone can include upset stomach/indigestion/nausea, dizziness, sensation of spinning, restlessness, muscle weakness, muscle cramps or pain, unusual tiredness/weakness...

 

What would you do today?

[Batmom]

Would be worth PMing Burpdog or greyhndz about how to wean him off given his dose and how long he's been on it. I've never had one on it so long that I couldn't just stop the med.

 

I'm sorry he isn't better and that your vet isn't helping.

[CaliforniaGreys]

I've had to wean off Pred with Misty, but I don't know if that's your solution. But I sure do understand your thought process.

 

Will keep you both in my prayers, but try to remember, whatever you decide to do, will be out of love, so there is no wrong decision, but I realize that doesn't make it any easier.

[Guest SusanP]

Just saw a late-nite email vet sent to Dh (on his email). She told us we can try tapering off the prednisone. We're going to try it and also have our regular vet look at him and discuss this with us this a.m.

 

Wiz just walked into the kitchen and ate some dry kibble (!) But he was up twice during the night crying with muscle spasms in his face.

 

I don't know what to think.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Oh, man, I really wish things were going better than this for you and Wizard. DEFINITELY try stepping down the pred, if he didn’t really need it in the 1st place then no wonder it’s having some nasty effects. Kelly DOES need it and we know this because he gets worse when we try to take him OFF it.

 

And whatever happens it sounds like you have done absolutely everything you possibly can for Wizard. Nothing more to add but

[Guest KennelMom]

We had a greyhound that could not tolerate even the smallest dose of pred. Some greyhounds don't handle it very well at all...I think there's even a brief mention of it in the original Care of the Racing Greyhounds. I know of an adoption group that nearly lost a foster to prednisone. I only give pred as an absolute, positive LAST resort if there are no other alternatives for the dog. Once you have a dog have a really bad reaction to a drug, it makes you pretty gunshy about it though...We have used it with success, but the improvement was pretty much noticeable right away (tick disease related auto-immune issue).

 

It's a really tough call, but if your gut is bugging you to make this one last ditch effort you may regret it or always wonder if you don't.

 

How old is Wizard?

[Guest SusanP]

We're going back to our regular vet this a.m. so she can evaluate his condition--there are things I wouldn't know how to check, and also to discuss this with her, find out about her availability after hours should we need an emergency euthanasia trip. I think the prednisone helped the original symptoms of accidents in the house, but his other symptoms (iffy appetitite and slowing on walks) have gotten worse, and he never had these awful muscle spasms before she put him on the prednisone.

 

This morning he ate a mouthful of dry kibble and trotted up the block a little when i took him out with the others. I don't know what to think.

 

He did get a course of doxycycline in there, but it's hard to know if it helped the original problem if he's reacting badly to the pred.

 

I suspect even off the prednisone he will still be sick, but how will we know if we don't try?

 

specialist added that Butisonide could be a possibility, tho it causes more gastric distress--fewer neurological side effects, though. I don't know where we're headed here, but it's our last ditch try.

 

Kids have been up all night in distress and are not going to school today. We're all a mess.

[Burpdog]

Anything over 10 days on pred you have to wean off.

 

Did you ever get him stomach meds?

 

 

[Guest SusanP]

Got a couple doses of stomach meds into him before he began spitting out pills and we backed off on it as an "extra". he's back on it now and doing better taking his meds again.

Vet gave us instructions for first step of weaining off only, so taoday instead of 20 mg am and pm, I have him only a half dose this a.m. She didn't say where to go from there, but we'll be seeing our regular vet this morning.

[MP_the4pack]

You will ALWAYS second guess yourself and doubt if you did the right thing if you don't listen to yourself.

 

 

 

Ten years later I still wonder if I did right by Topaz.

Edited April 30, 2010 by MP_the4pack

[Guest momofevie]

I'm sorry you have to make these difficult decisions.

[Guest Energy11]

Yes, as the others have said, you need to wean him off the pred slowly.

 

It could be causing the symptoms you are describing, and it might be worth trying that first, before sending him to The Bridge. If he were mine, I'd do this.

 

Sending love, hugs, support and prayers!

[Batmom]

The stomach meds are really important if he's getting any pred at all. He should have those first.

 

Is he also on Enalapril, or am I thinking of a different dog? Pred + a heart condition can cause some issues.

 

Fingers crossed you can get him on the path to good health.

[Guest SusanP]

Back from our own vet (not the specialist). She agrees that the pred may be making him sicker than anything and has us cutting his dose from 20 mg 2x day down to 10 mg 2x a day immediately. She said after 3 weeks, the prednisone may have even settled the original bowel problem, and if not, there are other meds we can use with fewer side effects. She took blood to check calcium levels, electrolytes, etc and will let us know the results today. She said if I'd brought Wizard in to be put down, she'd have taken one look at him and told us it isn't time yet.

 

I'm kind of dizzy and shaky but very relieved for now. Though I know he's still sick and that this may not be a magic bullet.

 

Yes, Wiz is on enalapril for mild congestive heart failure. Yes, he will get 10 mg Pepcid 2x day from now on.

 

How can two vets handle a situation so differently?

[CaliforniaGreys]

How can two vets handle a situation so differently?

 

Welcome to the medical profession!

[Batmom]

Yeah, every vet has different experience and different risk-reward calculations going on in their head. I'm lucky that two of our vets (multivet practice) tend to think through those things out loud -- very helpful to the pet owner.

 

Glad your vet could reassure you that there were some things yet to try and that "it's just not time yet." I know how hard it is to watch the ups and downs of a sick dog and feel so helpless.

 

Lots of hugs.

[Guest Energy11]

How can two vets handle a situation so differently?

 

Welcome to the medical profession!

 

AMEN!

 

Sounds like you are on the right track. Please, just TRY to relax, and take it day by day from here. Sendings love and prayers!

 

 

[greyhead]

 

specialist added that Butisonide could be a possibility, tho it causes more gastric distress--fewer neurological side effects, though. I don't know where we're headed here, but it's our last ditch try.

 

Kids have been up all night in distress and are not going to school today. We're all a mess.

 

to you, your family, and Wizard

 

Budesonide does not cause gastric distress, in our experience and as far as I know. Not recommending that you use it now. Don't know if Wiz needs it anyhow. Just saying. It doesn't sound like the specialist is very familiar with budesonide.

[Xan]

I don't have any advice. I just wanted to let you know you're not alone in this experience. As have many others here, I went through so much of the same; doubt, frantic fear, head-banging regret, hopeful flights, dashed hopes, gearing up to euthanasia then riding one more wave of hope and doubt.....

 

I hope your search turns up a solution for you all. In the mean time, make as many good memories as you can.

:bighug

[Burpdog]

Get some carafate (sulcrafate is the generic) for him also. It makes a very big difference.

[Remolacha]

For what it's worth, I think you are doing the right thing to wean him off the pred before you make any further decisions. While it has always worked well for my dogs, I know some can't handle it at all.

Sounds like your regular vet has a good understanding of the situation.

 

[Jackandgrey]

This is such a horrible conundrum I know but without a doubt you are doing right by Wizard to try this first. And yes vets are human with differing experiences and ideas. It can be very confusing and frustrating. However, it makes little sense to give you an option such as continue pred vs euthanasia. I'm so glad your own vet is working with you now.

[Guest zoolaine]

As long as you are doing it with love - which you are - it is the right thing. I agree to listen to your gut. Sunny was on prednisone and was switched straight to Dexamethasone ??????? - something like that - around the time he started doing so much better and went into remission (he also started a new chemo protocol so which one bad the biggest difference I don't know) Hugs to you and Wizard

[krissn333]

Susan

 

Something to keep in your vault of ideas - if he continues having muscle spasms, ask about putting him on Robaxin (muscle relaxer). First I would make sure he is getting enough electrolytes (give him Pedialyte or some Gatorade cut with water) and that he's not dehydrated.

 

I hope that being off of the pred will help Thankfully Ace has not had any problems being on it (she takes 25 mg every other day for her leukemia), I don't know what we would do if she couldn't tolerate it. Wiz has always been kind of sensitive to things...I remember when we first got him from the track, he and his buddies had some skin issues, but Wizard's were worse than the other two. Had a heck of a time getting it under control and keeping him comfortable.

 

Hugs!

[Guest PiagetsMom]

I have absolutely no experience with any of this, so I've had no advice, but I want you to know that I've followed your posts on Wizard and send many good thoughts your way. I truly hope you see some improvement for your boy