He's Jealous And She's Kind Of Scared.

[Guest burgerandfrey]

Awhile back I posted about the two greys we adopted last Summer:

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/250995-bossy-boy-and-submissive-girl-should-we-intervene

 

Zeke is a 6-year-old male who likes to quietly dominate our smaller 3-year-old girl Lola. We decided not to worry about it since they always resolved their disputes peacefully. Unfortunately Zeke's behavior seems to be getting more bratty by the week and Lola seems to be more withdrawn and less playful than she used to be. It's kind like he is jealous of anything she enjoys. It used to be that Zeke would make Lola move out of certain dog beds when he wanted the one closer to where we were sitting. Zeke always needs to be close to either me or my wife, while Lola doesn't mind having some alone time. Now we are seeing Zeke walk up to Lola when she is just sleeping in the yard and standing over her until she moves. He will also steal her toys. They never fight and there isn't even any growling, because Lola just gives up right away. It used to be just an every now and then thing, but now if Zeke walks into a room or into the yard where Lola is sleeping, the first thing he will do is make her move

 

Worse than that Lola is now afraid to run because Zeke chases her and pins her into a corner. We run them with their muzzles on (otherwise Zeke will sometimes nip at Lola which she really hates). Lola used to enjoy running around with Zeke even when he chased her into corners, but now she seems scared of him. He will run and run while she just stands next to us. Sometime she will run a little and then run right back behind one of us or into the house where she feels safe. It's really sad to watch because Lola loves to run... she just gets a little freaked out by Zeke.

 

Fortunately she is not so scared of him (yet) that they can't be walked together or sleep next to each other. And there is some affection between them. They like to stand next to each other in the yard. They swan hug, and they sniff and greet each other. They don't growl and snark at each other. It's just these two issues: Zeke scares Lola when they run together, and Zeke likes to take whatever toy or resting place Lola may be enjoying. The only time Lola feels like a queen is when she is on the sofa with one (or both) of us. For whatever reason Zeke leaves her alone when she is on the sofa. He also lets Lola sleep in our bed at night.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for how we can make Zeke leave Lola alone? We sometimes distract him, but when he makes up his mind he is difficult to distract for long. Some tips on getting them to play nicely together would also be good. We have tried just running Lola by herself, but oddly enough she wants to be with Zeke. If we let her out without him, she just wants to go back inside!

[IndyandHollyluv]

Oh good lord! Too funny. I just posted about Holly and New Dog, but what you're describing was very much like Indy and Holly's relationship. Indy was competitive. Had to take whatever Holly had. Would stand over her until she got up out of her bed. I could go on for hours.

 

Out in the yard, Indy didn't know how to play nicely -- once a game of chase ensued, he would run after Holly and go for the jugular. Seriously.

 

In every other aspect, Indy and Holly got along fine. I do believe his bullying undermined her confidence -- but I tried not to interfere unless I had concerns that the snarking would escalate to fight level (which it never did).

 

But you're right -- regardless of his bullying, Holly really loved Indy (kinda like being married to someone who beats you every day -- you start to think it's normal).

 

As Indy got older, he did mellow out to some extent. I often took Holly out for mom-daughter car rides, walks and romps in the yard. I took her to Greyhound obedience school in an attempt to bolster her confidence.

 

Sometimes I just had to redirect Indy or change the subject so he would leave Holly alone.

 

Maybe Holly and Lola could be friends!!!

[Guest burgerandfrey]

Maybe Holly and Lola could be friends!!!

 

It sounds like they would be a good match for each other! What you described going on between Holly and Indy is pretty much exactly what we see with Zeke and Lola. Zeke has actually gone for the jugular on a couple of occasions while chasing Lola, but never breaking the skin. When he catches Lola sometimes he grabs her neck in his jaws for a second and then releases. We know he is playing (otherwise he could have easily drawn blood or worse), but it really scares Lola. I think it's just his way of saying, "I got you!" We thought muzzling them for play would help, but she still seems scared of him.

 

The funny thing is that Lola is pretty outgoing and fearless when it comes to meeting strange dogs on our walks. We walk them to a park that is very popular among dogs, and they sniff and greet dogs ranging from little bitty things to giant Great Danes and Mastiffs. There are times when Lola gets a strange vibe from a dog and she will actually move to the other side of Zeke as if for protection, but most of the time she is the first to approach a strange dog for a greeting... even if the dog is much larger than she is. Zeke is not nearly as interested in greeting other dogs. We have also seen Lola stand her ground against Zeke as if she is tired of being pushed around, but I think her typical strategy is to take a toy or treat and hide from Zeke, but then to give in if he finds her. He usually won't go looking for her though.

 

We all love Zeke dearly, but he can be a bit of a brat

Edited April 26, 2010 by burgerandfrey

[IndyandHollyluv]

Sean - thanks for your response to my Q!

 

I am not the Dog Whisperer, so I can't say what would work best but I tried to keep both Indy and Holly out of harm's way because I wasn't going to give up either dog. The problem with the New Dog is not a matter of simply muzzling but rather stopping the fully body contact!

 

I will say I did muzzle Indy on occasion (when he was younger) while out in the yard. As the hounds aged, both suffered back issues so the run and chase episodes eventually ceased. However, even during his final months, Indy would still stand over Holly to make her move out of whatever bed she was in. Honestly, he could be such a turd. But a very lovable one.

 

Oh, both hounds had low thyroid function such that each was started on thyroid meds. Indy's disposition did improve and he wasn't quite so churlish with Holly.

 

Like people, certain animals are just more sensitive and fragile than others. I always tell Holly to put her big girl pants on ... but to no avail. Will let you know if I recall any helpful tips or suggestions.

Edited April 26, 2010 by IndyandHollyluv

[Guest burgerandfrey]

Sean - thanks for your response to my Q!

 

I am not the Dog Whisperer, so I can't say what would work best but I tried to keep both Indy and Holly out of harm's way because I wasn't going to give up either dog. The problem with the New Dog is not a matter of simply muzzling but rather stopping the fully body contact! /quote]

 

I'm glad Zeke doesn't try to body slam Lola. I can see how that would be a bigger issue...especially when Holly has some back problems.

I will say I did muzzle Indy on occasion (when he was younger) while out in the yard. As the hounds aged, both suffered back issues so the run and chase episodes eventually ceased. However, even during his final months, Indy would still stand over Holly to make her move out of whatever bed she was in. Honestly, he could be such a turd. But a very lovable one.

 

I can easily picture a geriatric Zeke bossing Lola around, but since she is a few years younger maybe she will start to boss him around when she realizes he's getting old We do love 'em both, and Zeke is such a sweet dog to us... but we can't help but root for Lola.

 

Oh, both hounds had low thyroid function such that each was started on thyroid meds. Indy's disposition did improve and he wasn't quite so churlish with Holly.

 

That's interesting...I never thought of it being health related. We have been trying to get some allergies under control with Zeke. We thought it was a food allergy, but now we are thinking it's environmental. His allergies have improved, but I wonder if he gets more needy and more jealous on the days he is itching?

 

Like people, certain animals are just more sensitive and fragile than others. I always tell Holly to put her big girl pants on ... but to no avail. Will let you know if I recall any helpful tips or suggestions.

 

Thank you! I hope you figure out a way to build peace between Holly and the new dog. It's tough when you love them both but they just don't bond with each other the way you hoped they would. When it comes to Zeke and Lola I just keep reminding myself that it could be worse. At least they aren't fighting or snarking, and much of the time they seem very bonded. We boarded them for a week over the holidays and they had adjoining spaces with a door so they could go back and forth between each others spaces. The staff said they were inseparable and very sweet together.

 

Sean

[IndyandHollyluv]

Sean - a quick comment. Just fyi. I adopted Indy when he was 3-1/2. During the next few years he struggled with what the vets thought were allergies. I have previously posted about this so I won't blather on, but I spent big $$$ on allergy treatment only to watch my dog progressively decline. Skin problems, major hair loss, irregular bowel habits. Not to mention, Indy was, understandably, crabby and ill-tempered at times.

 

I finally insisted on a fourth thyroid panel. Results appeared within normal limits - just barely. I said look, nothing else is working so can we try him on thyroid meds. All Indy's skin problems resolved. The constant scratching and licking stopped. Indy's hair grew back (he was darn close to bald - neck, tail, legs, butt, thighs, chest). And his disposition improved.

 

I also eliminated wheat, corn, soy, and beef from his diet. Switched to fish-based kibble. All those changes made a huge difference.

 

Good luck with your puppers!

Edited April 28, 2010 by IndyandHollyluv

[Guest LindsaySF]

I wouldn't worry too much about Zeke bullying her off beds and stealing the toys. He's clearly the alpha, and as long as Lola doesn't mind moving that's just the way they have worked things out. It seems sad to us, but like you said they get along otherwise and have some affection for each other.

 

The bullying/cornering in the yard I would nip in the bud, especially since Lola seems afraid. Some dogs get overly excited when running and playing and they think it's fun to pick on a weak or scared dog. Good call on the muzzles, I would keep that up. When I have dogs get too rambunctious and rough in play I intervene with the VOG and call the offending dog over to me. They get a few minutes time out before being allowed to play again. Over time Zeke will come to realize that he can't play too rough. If Lola won't correct him for being obnoxious, then it's up to you to do so.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest IHeartDogs]

How about some alone time in the yard daily with just mom, dad and toys? Will she not play/run if she's alone? I agree with Lindsay, there is not much you can do about toys/beds in the house. You could always keep on inviting Lola up on the couch since you say Zeke doesn't care if she is up there.

Good luck!

[GreytNut]

That sounds like Argus and Raven's relationship, and to a lesser extent Tiny and Raven's relationship. Argus would stand over her, shove her out of bed, take her toys and treats and refuse to let her play in the yard. If she started running he would body slam her. She loved him beyond all reason. It was like he was the controlling, narcissistic boyfriend and she was the doormat girlfriend. Tiny deals similarly with her, though he's not as big a bully as Argus was. He just knows what he wants, and if Raven happens to have it he's willing to take it.

 

Some greyhounds just wear "Kick Me" signs and are destined to be pushed around by more confident, dominant dogs. It's their lot in life as omegas and it doesn't upset them nearly as much as it upsets us. We have a sense of justice and fairness, and they don't understand those concepts.

 

What helped for us was distracting Argus in the yard so that Raven could get some quality play time. Sometimes we'd send him back in the house and let her run around by herself, though Lola doesn't sound too keen on that. We would also have other greyhound friends come over to play. Argus was so busy trying to herd any females into a corner (a harem of his very own!) that he didn't notice Raven sneaking off to play with someone else.