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Aleeya's Eye- Nictitating Membrane Won't Retract?


Guest sorenkkg

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An internist told us that pred can cause weight loss, despite the increased appetite. Our dog lost several pounds in just a few days before she took him off of it. So if your vet is looking to see if that's the right class of drug before changing to a different kind than pred, I'd give him the report as fast as possible! smile.gif

Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13).

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Did Aleeya already start on the pred? (Just trying to figure out the timing, because you mentioned she'd finish off the Deramaxx, and 48 hrs later start on pred.)

 

It's very unlikely the weight loss is due to steroids, especially if she's only been on them a day or two. However the doxycycline and pred can certainly cause GI unhappiness (how's that for a medical description? :lol) - specifically, gastritis, and that could make a big difference in her appetite. Are you giving her the pepcid regularly? Check with your vet, but I'd give it twice daily while she's on steroids. It can't be given at the same time as the doxy, though, because it interferes with absorption. Dogs on long-term steroids can lose weight because they lose muscle mass, but this isn't something that would occur at this point.

 

I've never heard of pred or any steroid directly causing a problem with teeth or gums, however - any immunosuppressant can open the door to various oral infections, so perhaps that's what was meant.

 

If she's started the pred, she's now on a relatively high dose, and this can really do a job on her tummy, so between the pred, the Deramaxx (even if she's stopped it) and the doxy, that would almost certainly account for her inappetance today. Pepcid and possibly sucralfate might make a big difference.

 

If the vet mentioned an "A" drug, that's probably azathioprine (Imuran), an immunomodulator commonly used for various autoimmune diseases. Usually, the vet will start the azathioprine while a dog is still on prednisone, because it can take a couple of weeks for it to become effective. The vet will also carefully monitor her CBC and liver function tests while on it, as it can be toxic to the liver. (Lexi, my Angel iggy, had polyarthritis, was put onto azathioprine, and developed severe drug-induced hepatitis. However, Jared, her brother, was on azathioprine for most of his life for another autoimmune disorder, and never had a problem.) If Aleeya goes onto azathioprine, she'll probably be on it for quite a while.

 

What a beautiful face, with those huge, shiny eyes! I so hope she's feeling better. I know you just want to know why this happened, and I really hope the answer is found quickly. If it turns out to be "ideopathic", as long as she gets better and doesn't have to go through this again, we'll all do the happy dance for her. :)

 

 

 

Update-- I'm a bit of a mess today

 

got her to eat her dinner last night by adding beef broth. That was a relief. She started the Prednisone yesterday, so we're changing the walk schedule, I took them out at 4pm, 9pm, and then a quick walk just for her around 12am (i'm still up anyway).

 

Today she was walked at 6:30am, then I gave her another break at 9am, and I'll do 11:30am, then maybe around 2, then both of them at 4pm, etc.

 

She didn't eat breakfast today though-- usually she gobbles her OMH giant cookie. Today, nothing :( DH had to put her pepcid in her mouth, she didn't want the pill pocket in any way at all.

 

I got up and she did take some soft treats, like her lamb jerky treat and some wellness soft treats.

 

I ran to the store and got some of her kibble's brand in wet food-- she does Eagle pack holistic, so I got some fish blend, duck, and some chicken/chicken liver. I also picked up some fresh food-- never tried it, but I know it's soft, and less likely to make me gag than the canned.

 

That was a hit at least :) -- I put about 1/4c in a bowl, and she took out a big chunk and ate it on her treat mat... Haka stuck his nose in and tried to eat some too, so I hand fed him a nugget at a time so that she could get more without big brother hogging all the food tongue.gif

 

I guess if found something she likes I shouldn't be so stressed, but I am... She's down a good 5lbs from her normal 67, and is looking skinny. She came to us from the farm at 59, and was quite bony. So we don't have much play here.

 

I was hoping the Pred would up her appetite, but I've read (maybe) that it could be making her gums or teeth sore? Is that true?

 

I am giving pepcid 2x a day now, so hopefully her tummy isn't what's bothering her. Poops so far are ok.

 

sigh...

 

 

S.

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Guest sorenkkg

Thanks folks! Let me try to reply:

 

1) the teeth/gums thing, I think I read that in a thread here, I think about Wonder and not eating and pred etc... I may have totally taken it out of context, sorry for confusion blush.gif

 

2) deramaxx was last given on Monday in the morning, so we were clear by Wednesday morning to start the Pred. the vet gave STRICT warnings that her stomach would be in SEVERE trouble if we mixed the two. I didn't throw the deramaxx out, but it's hidden far far away to avoid confusion.

 

I did NOT know that pepcid cause the Doxy to not absorb huh.gif we give it 2x a day, but I was giving the 2nd dose at the same time as the doxy, so I'll stop that. The one in the morning is a good hour before anything else is given.

Thanks for the heads up on that-- it's only been 2 days that I was doing that little trick, laziness on my part.

 

she REALLY doesn't want to take pills at this point, so DH is having to pop them down her throat-- which he isn't fully proficient at, so it's taking a while. Poor monkey.

 

Friday is the last day of 2x 25mg Prednisone! yay.gif

On Saturday we start 1x 25mg (half a pill) for 7 days, then we go to every other day.

 

The weight issue-- my problem is, even before this medical thing, she was only eating about 1/2 her food at some meals, then all of it at others (plus extra)... I figured she was self-regulating and didn't think much of it. She is notorious for going through food changes, on her own, several times a year.

She always eats all her food in the end and gets onto a schedule.

 

I got her weight history from the vet-- she came to us at 59 in 2006, and got up to 67 and stayed there until this year. My vet has her last at 65, but I weighed her at the eVet office where the eye doctor is, on Monday, and she was at 62.8.

 

Not the same scale as the other measurments, but I figure it's still accurate enough. I think those 5lbs are from the start of Spring and this issue, not this issue alone, and not b/c of the Pred since we just started on Wednesday, ya know? I had hoped it would make her eat more, so not happy to hear she can lose while on it and still be eating.

sigh.

 

her poop is still ok (fingers crossed, knock wood, etc) and she's not thrown up recently (I think someone barfed the other week, but can't tell who it was of course repuke.gif (that is such a gross emoticon!)

 

We've managed to not have any pee accidents in the house thus far-- I'm working at home, so I'm being careful with the water, though it is basically there all day since Haka shares it too...

I'm walking her 3 extra times-- Haka is mad that he gets a hand in the face and can't come with (we just go across the street, but he's mad anyway).

 

Food-- I'm pulling some tricks, not *all* the tricks-- I haven't opened the canned foods yet, since I know that makes me gag puke.gif but I did find this fresh food in vacuum packs in the fridge area, Deli something... I mentioned it above cuz we gave it a try this morning.

 

So I mix that in for the 5pm meal, thinking I'm being super sly-- and she, being the giant cat-like creature that she is-- PICKS out the bits she likes and then only eats about 1/2 the regular kibble. rolleyes.gif

 

Ok, 2 can play at this game ph34r.gif

 

Dinner was the remaining kibble, soaked in beef broth, with some more of the new stuff mixed in-- REALLY MIXED and sort of buried under the other stuff.

 

She ate 7/8 of it :) and of course all the good new bits are out. angel.gif

 

 

Will report in with any more changes. Thank you all so much for your advice, support, and kind words about my beautiful little Aleeya.

 

Gotta go wake her up now for her midnight pee :P

 

 

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Fun and games isn't it?

 

I pill my guys, no more hiding them in food. But to make it easier when it's more than a little one, I buy pill pockets - stuff them and pop the whole thing down the throat. Makes multiple pill giving easy.

 

My guys go crazy for nutritional yeast and for kelp. Jake loves kelp and drools when I'm making his dinner. You can get the nutritional yeast at a health food store, just ask for it. It also seems to promote their appetite. You can get kelp at Global Pet Foods and Bark and Fitz if they carry frozen. I'm not sure who else your way carries it.

 

Hard boiled eggs and cottage cheese and salmon were things that could get Foxy to eat.

Casual Bling & Hope for Hounds
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Janet & the hounds Maggie and Allen Missing my baby girl Peanut, old soul Jake, quirky Jet, Mama Grandy and my old Diva Miz Foxy; my angel, my inspiration. You all brought so much into my light, and taught me so much about the power of love, you are with me always.
If you get the chance to sit it out or dance.......... I hope you dance! Missing our littlest girl.

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Thank you! I'll keep those in mind and check out if i can get nutritional yeast to try out... she's eating a bit more with the "deli fresh" food mixed into her regular food, and I'm trying some other stuff to do her pills, but we can always resort to just putting them in her mouth.

 

Tomorrow we start just 1/2 pill per day, instead of 2 halves per day-- so from 50mg to 25mg per day, I'm hoping that has a good impact.

 

We had a couple pee accidents today-- one in the dog bed, one on the (washable) carpet by the back door. No biggie, I just feel bad for her that i didn't get her outside in time. I didn't see either of them happen either huh.gif

 

 

Here's hoping tomorrow is a better day for the little monkey rolleyes.gif

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  • 2 weeks later...
Apparently did some eye surgery on a Siberian Tiger!
Good training for working with a brindle. ;)

 

Seriously, hoping she and you are doing okay.

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Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey

remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter

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:) Good time for an update!

 

We've made it to the 1/2 pill every OTHER day phase, and I'm so glad! I have to be out of the house this week (first time in 6 weeks I think) and I got our dog walker for mid-morning, and then I'm back around 3pm.

No accident that I could detect today :yay

 

In other news-- she is eating! I give her about 1/3 c fresh food with her pills in the morning, then for 5pm she's getting 2c PLUS about 1/4 can of food, and then the same for dinner eek.gif That is over 4c of food!

 

Here's the thing-- she's not gained any weight yet unsure.gif

 

I had Haka at the vet for his toe check (slowly getting better, says the vet... I'm too close to it to really see much improvement) and I brought Aleeya in for a weight check.

 

She was DOWN another pound. She's now at 61.9 I think... She came to us at 59 and was super skinny in 2006, and is usually around 67-68 lbs, so I am NOT happy at all. sad.gif

 

Our vet (regular vet) thinks it is weird that she's eating more and still not gaining, even losing. I wonder if it's the prednisone? I think someone mentioned that here?

 

She did mention abdominal ultrasound again, but I countered with - chest xrays were clear. I really think it's the drugs.

 

Anyway, I'm happy she's at least eating, and with gusto colgate.gif loving that canned food mixed into her regular kibble, softened by water.

 

I also gave her and haka a "bull wrinkle" on the weekend, and they loved it-- let them knaw for an hour or so, got about 1/2 down on them, teeth are quite nice now!

 

Next visit with Dr Zigler is when we're back from our long weekend, May 25th in the afternoon. She'll be off doxy by then, just the pred and eye drops will be left of the meds.

 

How do you put weight on a dog? I wish I had this problem myself rolleyes.gif

 

I was thinking puppy food? Or just keep doing what we're doing and it will come back on it's own?

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There's all sorts of theories about putting weight on a dog. The search function should find lots of threads here. I think the main points for a dog who is eating well are that the food should be quality calories, not junk; and also something that won't upset their digestive system.

 

Some people just add a little extra 1/4-1/2 cup extra of whatever they usually eat. Some add a half-cup of cooked pasta (because it's easy to digest). Some add a little lean meat. And some make Satin Balls.

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Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey

remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter

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What food is she eating?

 

If she'll eat more, I'd give her more -- another half cup per feeding, plus maybe an egg or a medium-sized hamburger.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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She eats (formerly known as) Eagle Pack Holistic-- a mix of 1/2 duck meal and 1/2 fish meal. I wet it thoroughly with water and let it soak in, so it's soft but still holds it's shape.

 

When she started NOT eating, I finally caved and got the Eagle Pack canned food to mix in.

 

Here's a typical day this week:

 

morning-- along with her pills (pepcid was 1/2hr before) she gets about 1/3 to 1/4 package of Deli Fresh bites-- she seems to love this and eats it all up-- I could probably give her more. A daily serving for a dog her size would be 1.25 packages, so I think this is a good breakfast size.

 

She also gets her usual morning Old Mother Hubbard big cookie.

 

5pm: she gets 2c of the mixed duck and fish kibbles, and now I'm adding about 1/4 can of the "matching" canned food. She seems to prefer duck and the chicken, the fish is sort of huh.gif . I think 1 can is a day's serving for a dog her size.

 

10pm: she usually gets 1c of mixed kibbles, but now I'm doing 2c, and another 1/4 can of the canned food.

 

All told, she's already getting 30% more kibble than her maintenance, PLUS the food in the morning and a half can total of that food.

 

I think that's more than double her usual food allowance. She is eating it all, but of course pooping a lot more (ever walk, and there's an extra walk with the dog walker now in the middle of the morning as well b/c of the Pred).

 

She's eating with gusto though, which is so much better than where we were 3 weeks ago, and even before she was officially sick, she was eating 1/2 her 5pm meal, but then all her 10pm meal.

 

WHY are these dogs so fussy? Labs I'm sure would eat everything always rolleyes.gif (the dog is always greener?).

 

Anyway-- analysis and ideas are welcome. I can start doing an egg for sure-- is that per meal or per day?

 

 

Thanks all! My worry is slowly ebbing, but will go away faster when my baby girl gets fatter.

 

 

Oh, and Poor Haka -- he's 83lbs, and only gets 3c kibble and a cookie, per day. He watches Aleeya's bowl like a hawk in case there's a morsel left that I don't remove before he gets to it! :lol:

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If she's pooping a lot more on the added kibble, I would try the egg (per meal) or hamburger to add a few calories without adding as much poopable bulk. The egg might make for some sulfurous fumes; some dogs it does, some it doesn't.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Update:

 

Saw Dr Zigler today... repeated all the tests. Summary:

 

tear test-- normal! yay!

 

occular pressure: still very low, basically same as before, 5 in one eye and 8 in the other.

 

posterior debris: this is what he saw last time that he didn't see the first time-- almost totally gone, but not entirely.

 

His notes say that the anterior uveitis is under control, and the posterior uveitis is much improved.

 

sigh.

 

We're not out of the woods, though there is light somewhere up there.

 

Meds-- continuing Prednisone every other day (25mg) and prednisolone down to 2x a day (from 3x).

 

For 2 months.

 

in 6 weeks we do a blood panel at our vet and send them the results.

in 7 weeks we have another Dr Z checkup. I think then we talk about ongoing plans.

 

Weight-- on this clinic's scale, she's at the same point she was last time we were there. If I compare to last time at my vet's scale, she's up almost a pound! :yay: I'm going to start adding an egg 1x a day and see if we can take it up from there.

 

Thanks for the ongoing support, gang. colgate.gif

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Well, that is a fairly optimistic report! Hope the good news continues.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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glad to hear she's improving! sending hugs to her and you! :hope :hope :bighug

Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Guest sorenkkg

Thanks Ellen and Kim and Batmom!

 

She might be skinny, but she is still being fussy with her food! rolleyes.gif

 

This morning, she greeted me with the "feed me" look.

 

So I took the food that she DIDN'T finish last night from the fridge and gave it to her.

 

blink.gif

 

She looked at me, the food, sniffed it, and walked away. I honestly thought she was a cat tongue.gif

 

I added an egg.

 

no.

 

I added some more canned food, and VOILA, little missy deemed the food fit to eat. lol.gif I think she's been reading Bill's "dinner with Bill" thread huh.gif

 

Sigh. Can't wait for the next meal rolleyes.gif

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Diane Burpdog converted me to the "give them what they want" school when it comes to elderly/picky or not-in-best-of-health dogs (those without dietary restrictions, of course). Put that weight back on them first. Argue about pickiness later. Hold out for the good stuff, Aleeya!

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Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey

remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter

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Hold out for the good stuff, Aleeya!

 

Hey! rolleyes.gif NOT HELPING!!!!

 

lol.gif

 

She ate the next meal just fine, thank-you-very-much! Might be b/c we had a visitor, our new(est) dog walker coming for a get-to-know-you visit. Aleeya did Paw, and Other Paw and everything, so she was on her bestest behavior! :wub:

 

Haka leaned on her and let her (!) kiss him on the head a bunch of times. So, you know, they got her wrapped around their dew claws already! cool.gif

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  • 1 month later...
Guest sorenkkg

Update :)

 

Today we all went to the vet-- Haka for his toe (all better), both for their yearly shots, and Aleeya to get bloodwork done in preparation for next Tuesday's visit with Dr. Zigler.

 

Last week, she had Big D :( and we had to stop the Prednisone for a bit while she got that taken care of (usually she shakes off tummy upset without meds, but apparently b/c the Pred suppresses the immune system (which I suppose is the point of taking it) she got this tummy thing... no worms :) )

 

Anyway, last week, even with the D, she was at 67lbs :)

 

Today, albeit at my vet's other office so the scale is a bit different... she is 69 lbs

so, not exactly a chunky monkey, but definitely NOT skinny minny anymore :yay:

 

Her eyes are still good on just a basic look-- maybe a bit cloudy over the pupil, but my vet says that's normal with age, and Dr Z can tell me more "with all his fancy tools" :P

 

So, fingers and paws crossed that July 13th is our last visit to Dr Z (or at least, that he stops the prednisone... pleasepleasepleaseplease).

 

:) S.

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Great report! Sure hope the baby steps toward remission continue!

Linda, Mom to Fuzz, Barkley, and the felines Miss Kitty, Simon and Joseph.Waiting at The Bridge: Alex, Josh, Harley, Nikki, Beemer, Anna, Frank, Rachel, my heart & soul, Suze and the best boy ever, Dalton.<p>

:candle ....for all those hounds that are sick, hurt, lost or waiting for their forever homes. SENIORS ROCK :rivethead

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest sorenkkg

Another Update-- this one from the Opthalmologist :)

 

We saw Dr Z on July 13th.

 

They did the tonometry-- got weird results when the assitant did it, so Dr Z redid it, and consistently got 8 in each eye. So that's still low, though one eye was around 5 previously, so that one is a bit better I suppose.

Her bloodwork came back from our regular vet and all is still fine there, no changes -- liver function is fine (could be a concern on pred).

 

Ok, so, what now?

 

UGH, we're still on Prednisone.

 

He is really loathe to take her off it entirely (even though she went cold turkey the other week and missed 4 doses b/c of her tummy). He wants to reduce, then reduce again, and probably again after that, until she's on a "pharmacologically irrelevant" dose (I think that's a quote) for her size. THen, if she's ok with the lowest does and is managing on her own body's production, he'll take her off entirely.

 

So, here's the plan: for the next 6 weeks, we go down to 1/4 pill (about 12.5mg) every other day. Eye drops down to 1x daily.

 

After 6 weeks, we go to 1/4 pill every 3 days until we see him in October (12 weeks away, it's like a lifetime).

 

At that point, he is thinking about going to 5mg pills, which would be the irrelevant dose...

 

He told me to just keep my eye on her, that I would know best what was "abnormal" and call if anything is weird. I said she is a little wonky on the days she was taking her 1/2pill dose, so we'll see how she does now on 1/2 of that.

 

With any luck, that's going to be it until October, and I really REALLY hope this is over then!

:) S.

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