The Big D - Treatment Ideas?

[Guest Tequila]

So, Tequila still has the Big D. It's been awhile now.....has improved a bit, but then returned. We have been dealing withhttp://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/250808-anxiety-between-2-am-5-am/) hope that link worked -- I'm typing in invisible ink inside a white box....

 

Anyway....Have tried adding a 1/4 cup of rice to meals....after 6 days, no improvement. Just picked up soemthing new from the vet called TYLAN POWDER.....the instructions are to sprinkle a 1/4 teaspoon on meals until the Big D resolves. Just started that this morning, so it's too early to tell. But in the meantime, I've been thinking about everything she eats, and trying to figure out if there is anything else that coudl be causing it (as the vet assures me it is not being caused by her new meds: Ammitriptyline and Thyrooxine)...

1) Could Pill Pockwets be causing the diarhhea? (I have been giving her her meds inside Pill Pockets, althernating between chicken flaor and beef flaor

 

a long list of things lately, here's a link to that thread for reference: (

 

(Wow, -- please forgive me if this is difficult to read =- I can now see one sentence, the one about referring to a previous thread, and it appears to be at the BOTTOM of the paragraph -- weird. Here's anotehr try with the link: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/250808-anxiety-between-2-am-5-am/

 

Anyway....my question is, do you think Pill Pockets could be causing diarhhea? They are kinda greasy...

 

Also, has anyone ever used Tylan Powder with any success?

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[greysmom]

Pill Pockets are pretty inocuous so I doubt they could be causing diarrhea. The tylan powder works for some and not for others. Give it good trial with enough time to take effect.

 

Diarrhea can have many many causes:

food allergy, internal parasites, tick born disease, IBD, food with too high a protein level, not enough fiber in the diet, too high a fat content in food, salmon oil supplements, too much people food - the list is pretty long.

 

I haven't been following your other thread so forgive any duplication. First thing to do is make sure you're not dealing with worms by taking a stool sample into your vet for testing.

 

After that, fast your dog for a good 24-30 hours. You need to calm her system down and cleaned out to start fresh. She'll be hungry and not happy. Make sure she has lots of water available. Then introduce a bland, single protein/single carb diet - boiled hamburger and rice, boiled chicken and pasta, something like that - in a small feeding first to see how her system reacts, then small frequent feedings if she does all right. If she doesn't do OK, switch the protein and try again.

 

If it firms up a little, try adding a fiber supplement to the food - benefiber tabs or another over the counter people product (make sure there's no added sugar or sugar-substitute in the product).

 

Many greys with diarrhea do well on fish-based diets. You can try switching her to one of those (see the food section here for more info). Make sure you don't switch her too quickly between foods if you try several. That can create it's own problems.

 

There are probably some threads on this subject in the Food section so you may want to look around there.

 

If food isn't the problem, and there's no obvious medical problem, you may be looking at a consult with a specialist to do some further testing. IBD is, well, not *common* but it happens enough that it is considered routinely.

 

Good luck.

[Wonder]

What kibble is she eating and for how long?

 

Lucky's (my spook with noises) has had big d for a few days, couldn't figure out why and then realized the auto shop next door was doing some work outside and it was super loud. My poor boy. Now it's windy so he doesn't want to go outside period!

[Guest Tequila]

What kibble is she eating and for how long?

 

Lucky's (my spook with noises) has had big d for a few days, couldn't figure out why and then realized the auto shop next door was doing some work outside and it was super loud. My poor boy. Now it's windy so he doesn't want to go outside period!

Thanks, Greysmom and Wonder.

 

Last week I brought a stool sample to the vet to be tested for worms -- negative.

 

As for food: She is eating a combination of Blue kibble (chicken & brown rice flavor) mixed with some Blue canned food -- I alternate between 8 flavors: the 4 "Family Favorites" recipes, and the 4 "Stew" recipes. She has been MAReating this for about 3 months now. The diarhhea started when the anxiety attacks started. To give you the Reader's Digest version:

 

Early March: Started having anxiety attacks in the middle of the night

- Thought it might be a UTI because she was crying & panting and wanting to go out -- seemingly distressed.

- Had her tested for a UTI -- didn't show much, but vet prescribed an antibiotic to be safe.

- Antibiotic (we think) gave her even worse diarhhea

- Since her anxiety continued, vet concluded it wasn't a UTI (was never really convinced it was), took her off Antibiotic, put her on Metronisoline (sp??) to help with diarhha, and added Fortiflora to food

MARCH 11th: Did full blood work

- Started her on an anxiety med: Amitriptyline, and Xanax (since it would take 2-4 weeks for the anxiety med to kick in)

- Her thyroid panel came back less than .3, started her on Thyroxine

- Diarhhea continued, started adding 1/4 cup rice to food (didn't want to completely switch to hamburger & rice because she is a VERY fussy eater, and it was a challenge finding food she liked, so I'm afraid if I switch her to hamburger & rice that she may NEVER want to go back to her regular diet again)

- After a week, diarhhea still there, and recently (within the last 48 hours, turned into pure liquid), Contacted vet immediately, and they suggested the Tylan Powder, so I picked it up last night and started her on it this morning. She did have a somewhat BETTER poop this afternoon, which was encouraging (although I wouldn't think the Tylan power could work that quickly??? within hours??? I'm not sure).

 

In a nutshell: She has been on about 6 different meds within the last 4 weeks, so it's no wonder her system is a little bit unsettled right now.

 

Currently, we are "weaning" her off the Xanax to see if the Amitriptyline has begun to take effect yet. It will be another week or so before she is off the Xanax completely. And she might still need to take it when there are thunderstorms or fireworks (4th of July), etc. She is a spook.

 

With any luck, the Tylan powder will work. I was just wondering if anyone else had any suggestions. I have heard that Pumpkin is good??

 

As for "people" food -- she only gets liverwurst. It's a special treat after her evening walk. Her "between meal" snacks are all doggy snacks, which she has never had any issues with. In the morning, she gets a few beef or chicken "jerky" snacks (made for dogs) from Trader Joe's, and sometimes a chicken-wrapped biscuit (again, a dog treat). At night before bed, she gets 2 Nutro "Tartar Control" biscuits (in the blue box... she loves them).

 

So that's the scoop. I'll check back and let you know how she's doing tomorrow....but any and all suggestions are appreciated!

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[RobinM]

I did not read all you have written as I do not have the time to give it right now, BUT Tylon Powder is really bitter. Try putting it in capules. You can buy it and stuff them. I had to do that for Beau. It really is bad, taste it. Tylan powder is known to work,however it did not work for Beau. He has IBD.

 

You will need to try an elimination diet to see what's causing the D. It could be as simple as the food. But you have her on quite the variety. Try one food. EG: same dry as wet. Same type of treats. Do this for 10 days. If she has explosive D after 3 days- forget that food.

 

It could be grains she is allergic too. I hope it's nothing serious like what we had to go through with Beau.

 

I will try and get back to this later.

[greysmom]

You could still add a fiber supplement - they are usually tasteless and she shouldn't even know she's eating it. The tylan *might* be taking effect by now though it does sound very fast.

 

Don't give up on the anxiety meds if the amitryptiline (sp?) doesn't seem to be working. Just like with people, one med might work when another might not. Different drugs work on different hormones and chemicals and in different parts of the brain. The dosage might take a bit to refine too. There are several classes of drugs to try. My spook is on xanax only and is doing well comparatively. Clomicalm (prozac) is a FDA canine-approved anti-anxiety med. All others are off-label uses of human drugs.

 

IBD is affected by outside stressors, so hopefully RobinM can point you towards some good info.

[Wonder]

I didn't read your other thread but did you figure out what is causing the anxiety?

[Guest Tequila]

Update: She had a more fully-formed poopy this morning! YAY!

 

So....I don't know if it was taking her off the Pill Pockets that did it, or adding the Tylan powder, or maybe a combination of both. But I am not going to give her her meds in Pill Pockets anymore -- she takes them just fine with liverwurst (I hide them inside a small piece and she pretty much swallows it whole.)

 

As for the anxiety, no, we don't know what is causing it. There doesn't seem to be any specific stresser -- she is just jumpy. Lately, we have had the windows open to allow the fresh air inside now that it's gdetting warmer, and she has "jumped" at new sounds that seh is not used to hearing from outside (cars driving by, etc). But she's not freaking out. She just reacts, is all.

 

Today we are reducing her to 2 Xanax tablets per day (was 3x day, and before that was 4x a day). If she is okay for the week with just 2 a day, then we will reduce it to 1 a day....and hopefully after that we won't need the Xanax and she will just be on Amitriptyline and Thyroxine (although I think I want to switch her to Soloxine).

 

Robin -- thanks for the tip o Tylan powder tasting bitter -- you are SO right!!! I am not putting it in her food anymore. Instead, I ordered some empty capsules online (although with any luck she'll be rid of the diarrhea by the time the capsules arrived on Monday or Tuesday). Instead, I am mixing the powder in with apple sauce and some Splenda sweetener so she'll eat it. I definitely don't want her to stop eating her regular meals because they taste bitter!!! So I'm separating it from her meals. Whew! (And yes, I did what you said and tasted a tiny bit.... YUCK!!!! I don't blame her for not wanting to eat that powder, it probably made her entire dinner taste bad.

[RobinM]

I think Splenda is poisonous to dogs. Please check before you do that. Aspertame is a no no and artificial sweetners. PLEASE CHECK!

[Guest Tequila]

I think Splenda is poisonous to dogs. Please check before you do that. Aspertame is a no no and artificial sweetners. PLEASE CHECK!

She has had Splenda before, when I needed to give her Panacur (powder) for de-worming. I did the same thing -- mixed it into some apple sauce and added the Splenda to make it sweet so she'd want to eat it all. She was 100% fine. But thanks for the heads-up....I will Google it now.....

[Guest Tequila]

I think Splenda is poisonous to dogs. Please check before you do that. Aspertame is a no no and artificial sweetners. PLEASE CHECK!

She has had Splenda before, when I needed to give her Panacur (powder) for de-worming. I did the same thing -- mixed it into some apple sauce and added the Splenda to make it sweet so she'd want to eat it all. She was 100% fine. But thanks for the heads-up....I will Google it now.....

Just did some research online, and while it's generally advised NOT to give dogs any type of artificial sweetener, the main one that keeps showing up as HIGHLY tocic is Xylitol, which is used in chewing gujm mainly. Splenda is not made from Aspertame, but rather Sucralose, which is sugar-based.

 

Still, I am not going to give her Splenda anymore. I will add a bit of sugar (real sugar) to the apple sauce instead.