Have I Done The Right Thing?

[Guest Stripeyfan]

4 days after transitioning Kelly onto Royal Canin Sensitivity Control wet food he has gas and watery, explosive diarrhoea and is really flat (although appetite still fine, and still wanting his walks). I've spoken on the phone to the vet we saw last week, and he says there's nothing in the RC that isn't in his bland diet so he doesn't see what could be upsetting him. I've looked up the ingredients online and there's LOADS of stuff in it. Yes, stuff that means it's balanced – but it's clearly giving him problems; in fact he's worse on the RC, the diarrhoea progressing faster, than he's been on anything else, even the most hypoallergenic dry food.

 

I am just at my wits end now because every time we go to our vet we see a different person and get a different opinion - one told us it would take months to get rid of the worms, another said he thinks they should have gone by now. Another doesn't think Kelly has food allergies and yet another is convinced he does. And so on and so on. We've been 11 times to this vet practise and are getting nowhere, not to mention what it's costing us. No-one's offered to do anything like blood tests – the vet I spoke to today says maybe they'll do them in 6 weeks or so. Maybe. And they've only just decided it's time to do another stool test to check where we are with the worms. Which we had to push for.

 

Meanwhile poor old Kelly is just getting completely messed about, which I think is doing him the most harm of all. Whenever he's on the homecooked bland diet he's bright, playful and has lovely bouncy poo, so we're sure he's not allergic to chicken and rice on their own or this just wouldn't happen. Whenever he's on any sort of commercial food, he's sick. My gut feeling about it is it has to be possible to feed dogs a homecooked bland diet and add in supplements for nutrition if that's all they can tolerate – does anyone here do this? I don't care what it costs or how much time it takes to do, I think putting Kelly through having diarrhoea and then having to starve him every other week (it really has been that often) is just ridiculous and will end up being more damaging to him than anything else.

 

So.... I have rung a different practise in our area and asked to bring Kelly in for a 2nd opinion, and will explain all of the above, hopefully without breaking down. I know I am starting to panic about all this but I just feel it's time something more concrete was decided upon about how we tackle this. Please tell me I've done the right thing!!!

Edited March 8, 2010 by Stripeyfan

[dante2zoe]

I really feel for you. We went through that same experience (except our vet was more proactive) with kibble. Dante was NOT doing well on it at all. We also had him on Flagyl and Tylan powder, but it was the kibble that was giving him the problems. Our vet (out of frustration) told me the only remaining options were to put him on a prescription diet or feed raw. I went raw with him and haven't looked back. There are still things that give him the nasty runs, but 95% of the time now (it's been over 3 years) his poo, weight, attitude and zest for life is great. Can't say if it would work for you, but it did for us. I think he couldn't handle all the carbs (we don't do veggies or anything as a meal here - just small pieces of fruit, green beans or carrots as occasional treats) and/or the preservatives. While it is more expensive than a high-grade kibble, his health is great, he's only needed on dental (he will be 10 in July) and he LOVES mealtimes! I really wish you the best and maybe others here will have more concrete assistance instead of just personal anecdote.

[Guest mcsheltie]

YES! You need another vet ASAP! I would put him back on the bland diet he was doing good on until you go to the new vet. And think through what they tell you before you take him off it. The longer he goes with explosive diarrhea the longer it will take for his digestive system to get back to normal.

 

Royal Canin has too many ingredients to use as an allergy diet.

 

He can do fine forever on a diet of chicken and rice with a hypoallergenic vitamin/mineral mix. But for now feed only the chicken and rice. I can point you in the direction of a nutritionist who can recommend the type and amount of that supplement.

 

Get with a new vet and make sure he is parasite and intestinal bug free.

[Batmom]

Put him back on the bland diet. Get a vitamin/mineral supplement as mcsheltie suggests. And yes, make sure he's parasite and other-bug free.

 

I have a dog who has been eating a deliberately unbalanced homeprepped diet (with vitamin/mineral supplement to balance) for 2 years. Healthy and good poop. It works for her.

 

Hugs and best luck.

[MandysMom]

Mandy never did great on any kibble -- she did barely okay with some, but never ate with enthusiasm (food would often sit for hours before she'd get up and reluctantly eat some of it) and had the big D frequently. After a bloat scare, I fed her a bland diet as instructed. She loved it. She suddenly enjoyed her food -- she'd get up and eat immediately, leaving little in the bowl. It took some experimenting to get the amounts right, but she's happy and healthy. I talked with a holistic vet, who told me the Springtime Fresh Factors and Joint Health Chewables are sufficient supplements for her. I feed a protein (usually baked chicken, but sometimes ground chicken, ground beef, or roast beef), rice or pasta (she prefers rice), and mixed vegetables (green beans, carrots, peas, and corn)...all mixed together with a hearty spoonful of canned pumpkin. It's more expensive than most kibble, but I figure she's happy and healthy--less vet visits are good for both of us.

[GreyPoopon]

You're doing the right things. You do need to be sure the parasites are gone, and you do need to put him back on the bland diet until you find something that works for him--or you can keep him there and add supplements. As mcsheltie said, the longer his system is out of whack, the longer it will take to recover.

 

And, if I were you, I'd definitely be looking for another vet clinic. It's not unusual for different vets to have different opinions--even when they practice together--but they're not responding to you or communicating with each other, and that's not right.

[Guest SoulsMom]

There are a LOT of people who feed their dog a home cooked diet. (I tried it once but Soul does better or the I/D). If Kelly does well on that, then that is the way I'd go. You can find a nutritionist who should be able to give you a recipe. There is also a product called 'Balance It' (I think that's the name) that you can add to the meal to give it the proper nutrients

[Guest Stripeyfan]

THANKYOU!!! I feel so, so much better seeing these replies and realising I'm not just being a stupid, panicky, bothersome pain in the a$$ (like I feel I am every time we end up at the vet). The thing is we just haven't been allowed to try (and that's been like getting blood out of a stone to get the vet to agree to) is letting him be on what seems to work for him... and it sounds like it works for a lot of people here.

 

I KNOW I'm no expert but if he was having absorption problems etc, wouldn't he be sicker than this, even on a bland diet? Because all the other symptoms he's had are, as far as I can work out, classic for the huge worm burden the poor boy was found to have. Despite the vet poo-poohing the idea, I'm still sure these problems are all connected to this too (we are worming him for a 3rd time tonight! ) – he even started to put the weight he'd lost because of the worms back on last time we did a more prolonged spell on the bland food, and that's GOT to be a good sign, surely?

 

We'll definitely take him to the new vet tonight anyway, and I will take the stool sample to them too, rather than our old one. I have already told them over the phone that we will NOT do Royal Canin any more. As for the expense of a home cooked diet, I know over time it will end up being way, way cheaper than continually going to the vet and paying for the cr*p they keep trying to get him to eat.

 

McSheltie, I'd love you to point me in the nutritionist's direction, thankyou.

 

You guys rock!!!

[Guest krystolla]

I second the calls that you should find another vet practice if possible. The vet practice I go to has multiple vets, but in ten years there has only been one instance where we've had a differing opinion between vets about a line of treatment -- they left the decision up to us.

 

They've always explained the full plan for determining a diagnosis, today we're doing an x-ray and physical exam and we can pull blood for a blood test but there is no reason to do that until we've had a chance to examine the x-rays. If we see X, Y or Z we'll want you to go to a specialist. If it's A, B or C you'll need to come back in for follow up x-rays.

 

Then I go home, look everything up on the computer and scare myself silly with surgery pictures or case studies.

 

Anyway, my point is that you need a vet (and vet practice) that is going to talk to you. Even if they took him into a back room every time you came and brought him back out two years younger and perfectly healthy it wouldn't be a good vet if they couldn't tell you what happened.

[maggiespet]

Forgive me if you have already discussed and coverred this - I'm jumping in late - but has Kelly been tested for giardia? When we got my mutt pup, we spent 6 months getting rid of now-you-see-it-now-you-don't worms and giardia. I hope the new vet can get to the bottom of Kelly's issues. And I think you sound like a very good houndie mum.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Forgive me if you have already discussed and coverred this - I'm jumping in late - but has Kelly been tested for giardia? When we got my mutt pup, we spent 6 months getting rid of now-you-see-it-now-you-don't worms and giardia. I hope the new vet can get to the bottom of Kelly's issues. And I think you sound like a very good houndie mum.

 

Hi, he has been tested for Giardia and got the all clear. But I might ask them to look for it again, just in case!

[Guest mcsheltie]

I just want to clarify. Do not give any supplements until you have seen the vet and have his diarrhea under control for several weeks.

 

When it comes time to add one, make sure it is truly hypo allergenic. Use a human supplement that requires 4 to 6 capsules/tablets per day. Then dose the dog by weight. Human supps are based on a person weighing 160-180 lbs.

 

As I said I can give you several you can order online from the US or put you in touch with a canine nutritionist who can find a product for you.

 

If you want to go the raw feeding route, a chicken only diet is one of the easiest to do!

 

But for now, do exactly what you were doing that resulted in the bouncy poop and nothing else!

[Guest eaglflyt]

I'd just like to add that giving your pup some probiotics to reestablish his healthy gut flora might be very helpful. After having such a heavy worm load, tremendous diarrhea, and meds., it would be almost impossible for his normal, healthy gut flora to be present.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Back from the new vet and I'm so relieved I could cry!!! Not only did she listen to us instead of brushing aside our concerns with shrugged shoulders, but she didn't insist on super-expensive vet-only food and we are getting bloodwork done not in 6 weeks but tomorrow. She thinks there may be an absorption problem going on here (possibly caused by gut wall damage from the worms, possibly something else that the worms have been masking, such as a pancreatic deficiency). Whatever, it looks like at last we will get some answers or at very least have things ruled out, and some idea of where we go with this now, whether that's medication, diet or a combination of those things. So yes, I guess I did the right thing!!! And thankyou so much as always for the advice and good thoughts. Kelly sends a big helicopter-waggy tail!

[Remolacha]

I don't have anything specific to add to the great advice you've gotten, but I did want to say, you ARE doing the right thing! Switching to a vet who will, hopefully, listen to you, and keeping him on a diet that works for him.

 

You may have to worm several times to get rid of the little buggers, and giardia can be hard to detect.

 

Fletcher can't tolerate any veggies, and something about the processing of kibble makes most of that out for him as well. I've been feeding him raw for almost 6 yrs, and he is doing great. Don't worry about a balanced diet right now. A few weeks on chicken & rice won't hurt him.

 

good luck with the new vet!

[Guest LindsaySF]

I was going to suggest a new vet as well. I'm glad you had a positive experience. I would ask them to test for SIBO or another bacterial infection in addition to the bloodwork.

 

Just a note, even when a dog tests negative for worms and other parasites, I deworm them anyway. False negative results are common enough that it is very worth it in my opinion.

 

Good luck.

[Guest AGirlNamedMe]

I'm glad you're on the road to some answers and have found a new vet that you like.

 

xo

[carronstar]

So happy to hear that you have found a new vet who listens to your concerns. It sounds like you are on the right path.

[Guest mcsheltie]

:yay So glad you found someone with a brain! Take a fecal sample in tomorrow too.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Fecal sample is already there. We'd already collected one for our old vet so we decided it could come with us to the new one instead!! She said they could do it first and wait for the results before doing bloodwork, but recommended having both done together because this has gone on for so long. Our old vet wanted to wait at least 6 weeks before running any more tests...

 

 

Enough said!

[Trudy]

He gained some weight while eating just chicken and rice for a while? And his poops were good?

And all that changed again when you went back to a food suggested by the old vet??

 

To me, that doesn't sound like a pancreatic issue, but a food issue. If he can do well on chicken and rice then he's absorbing what he needs - or at least absorbing something.

Good luck with the new vet.

[Guest luckydog]

Your story makes me wonder how much of a kickback your old vet was getting from selling RC to their clients. Grrrr.....