Request For Info On Solaxine

[Batmom]

Sweetdogs, did he say why? The way the med and the dog's native thyroid work, I wouldn't think that it would have to be tapered off over more than a week, if at all.

[Guest MZH]

Out of curiosity I went to the Soloxine site and there's nothing in the drug sheet on discontinuing it. I sure wish I knew why it should be a gradual discontinue.

 

I've discontinued it cold turkey for 2 dogs over the years at the vet's suggestion and nothing bad happened. Just saying....

[Batmom]

That's what MSU says, too (no need to taper). If you've just done a few months trial in a borderline/uncertain case, you normally just stop. The med doesn't cause the dogs thyroid to stop working, and the body has some reserve (whether natural or from Soloxine).

[sweetdogs]

Sweetdogs, did he say why? The way the med and the dog's native thyroid work, I wouldn't think that it would have to be tapered off over more than a week, if at all.

He didn't say why but he was specific on tapering.

[Batmom]

Hmm. Wonder if he's talking about dogs who've been on it for years, like Flashy, where you might want to do it because dog might indeed be hypothyroid and you wouldn't want to crash. Will have to ask if/when I get the chance.

[seeh2o]

Email him and ask him directly, I have no doubt you'll get an answer from either he or one of his colleagues.

[Batmom]

Not going to pester when I don't need to know.

[Guest mcsheltie]

Sweetdogs... no way you could be home already

 

He also said he wouldn't medicate a GH unless the TSH is low. From what he said he and Dr Dodds are at odds on this issue.

 

I prefer MSU for thyroid (not that anyone asked me )

[Guest grey_dreams]

When my 2 vets + the top endocrine specialist in Netherlands + Jean Dodds all agreed about the 6 week trial for Zuki, they told me that if he didn't respond to the med, he would have to be taken off very slowly over the course of a few weeks, by gradually decreasing the dosage.

Just heard Dr. Couto say today that thyroid meds should be tapered off slowly over 4-6 weeks.

 

Thanks for this information! It's good to know that on this issue, Dr. C. has the same conclusion as the vets I've queried and the American Thyroid Association.

 

I'm pressed for time today, but if you want to know something about the biochemical and physiological changes that are precipitated by sudden thyroxine withdrawal, go to Pub Med (a free journal database provided by the US National Library of Medicine and the NIH) and type the search phrase "thyroxine withdrawal." You will pull up 534 abstracts. Most recent studies are run in humans that have heart tumors, because thryoxine is a routine treatment for these patients, and so that's the model that researchers are investing in. Older reviews will get summaries of studies run in animal models.

 

 

He also said he wouldn't medicate a GH unless the TSH is low. From what he said he and Dr Dodds are at odds on this issue.

 

It's not just between Dr. Couto and Dr. Dodds. Many vet researchers agree with Dr. Dodds, and many agree with Dr. Couto. The key point in the debate is the fidelity of the recombinant TSH antibody that is used for testing canineTSH levels.

[Batmom]

He also said he wouldn't medicate a GH unless the TSH is low.

 

I think you mean high .

[Guest Adrianne]

I have heard back from Dr. Dodds, and I have asked her permission to share with you what she advised in Larry's situation. If, and as soon as, she gives permission, I will post it here.

 

Thank you everyone.

 

 

[Guest Energy11]

Glad you heard back! Sounds like you are on the right track!

 

How is that handsome guy today?

 

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

Anxious to hear what Jean has suggested.

[Guest Adrianne]

I'm sorry I haven't got back to this topic til now; I worked with my husband today, and I am EXHAUSTED!

 

As I said earlier, I emailed Dr. Dodds and gave her the basic facts regarding Larry, his adoption, his medication, and my complete ignorance on the subject of his particular thyroid problem and medication.

 

She emailed me back:

 

"...there's a problem here as the dose of thyroxine Larry takes is much too high for any sight hound, let alone a geriatric greyhound. The correct dose of thyroxine for all sight hounds is 0. 1 mg per 20 pounds of optimum weight given twice daily, always given at least an hour before or three hours after each meal to ensure absorption.

 

I hope that he now takes 0. 6 mg twice daily. IF not, and he takes all 1.2 mg just once a day, the first thing you need to do is cut the dose in half and give it twice daily. Then, cut the dose again until you're giving him just 0.4 mg twice daily [2/ 3 rds of 0. 6 mg or figure out the amount with the size pills you're using].

 

This would be the correct dose` for an 80 pound grey. IF he weighs less than that and with his being older , his true dose will likely be just 0.3 mg twice daily but you need to wean him down to his proper dose over 3-4 weeks. "

 

My reply to her:

 

"Thank you Dr. Dodds for your reply. Yes, I have been giving him the entire dose at one time because that's what the prescription bottle says. They are .8mg pills, and the bottle says "Give 1 and 1/2 pills once daily". I also have been giving it to him immediately following his breakfast, so I will change that. Could you please tell me what incremental steps the dosage should be lowered? Thank you."

 

Her reply:

 

"Good grief ! First, cut the dose in half and give half twice daily i.e. give half of the 0.8 mg pill (0.4 mg ) + plus 1/ 4 of the amonut (0.2 mg )twice daily. So, he'll get 0.6 mg twice`daily. Give this for 2 weeks and then reduce it further to 0. 4 mg twice daily. Give this dose for 4-weeks, apart from meals, then check T4 and freeT4 levels 4-6 hrs post-pill."

 

Dr. Dodds was very quick to respond and very helpful, and I thank all who pointed me in her direction. Larry will be the better for it.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Adrianne

[Guest Greytluv]

Dr. Dodds is the best

I know Larry will feel much better when you get the dose right.

All my dogs are from her. I volunteer for Hemopet. She always does what's best for the dogs.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Greytluv

[Guest grey_dreams]

She emailed me back:

 

"...there's a problem here as the dose of thyroxine Larry takes is much too high for any sight hound, let alone a geriatric greyhound. The correct dose of thyroxine for all sight hounds is 0. 1 mg per 20 pounds of optimum weight given twice daily, always given at least an hour before or three hours after each meal to ensure absorption.

 

I hope that he now takes 0. 6 mg twice daily. IF not, and he takes all 1.2 mg just once a day, the first thing you need to do is cut the dose in half and give it twice daily. Then, cut the dose again until you're giving him just 0.4 mg twice daily [2/ 3 rds of 0. 6 mg or figure out the amount with the size pills you're using].

 

This would be the correct dose` for an 80 pound grey. IF he weighs less than that and with his being older , his true dose will likely be just 0.3 mg twice daily – but you need to wean him down to his proper dose over 3-4 weeks. "

 

My reply to her:

 

"Thank you Dr. Dodds for your reply. Yes, I have been giving him the entire dose at one time because that's what the prescription bottle says. They are .8mg pills, and the bottle says "Give 1 and 1/2 pills once daily". I also have been giving it to him immediately following his breakfast, so I will change that. Could you please tell me what incremental steps the dosage should be lowered? Thank you."

 

Her reply:

 

"Good grief ! First, cut the dose in half and give half twice daily –i.e. give half of the 0.8 mg pill (0.4 mg ) + plus 1/ 4 of the amonut (0.2 mg )twice daily. So, he'll get 0.6 mg twice`daily. Give this for 2 weeks and then reduce it further to 0. 4 mg twice daily. Give this dose for 4-weeks, apart from meals, then check T4 and freeT4 levels 4-6 hrs post-pill."

 

 

I'm glad you have a new plan for Larry's medication.

 

I would like to say that there is some room for refinement in the new protocol. I am a big fan of incremental changes where the "body's engine" is concerned

 

We know that Larry's current dose of 1.2 mg, once a day is way too high. We also know that he is probably not absorbing the full dose because you are currently giving it to him after his meal, but there is no way to know how much he is absorbing. If given 1 hour before or 3 hours after meals, the full dose will be absorbed.

 

Do you feed twice a day? If so, it might be useful to try something like this:

Give 0.6 mg with breakfast and 0.6 mg with dinner for a few days (maybe 4-7 days).

Give 0.4 mg with breakfast and 0.4 mg with dinner for a few days (maybe 4-7 days).

Give 0.4 mg 15 min before breakfast* and 0.4 mg 15 min before dinner for a few days (maybe 7 days).

*Insert the pill into a small drop of peanut butter (or other yummy), just enough to cover the outside of the pill, and he will gobble it up

Give 0.4 mg 30 min before breakfast and 0.4 mig 30 min before dinner for a few days (maybe 7 days).

 

At this point, and depending on how Larry is adjusting (see below), you could either choose to give 0.4 mg 1 hour before each meal (for 0.8 mg total) or you could choose to give 0.3 mg 1 hour before each meal (for 0.6 mg total, which is the recommended thyroxine level for sighthounds). Whichever you choose, give that dose for 4 weeks and then check his levels as advised by Jean.

 

Whatever route you use to decrease his dosage before retesting values, do keep close watch on his behavior and any other changes you might see. For example: Does he seem suddenly fearful of something that he wasn't afraid of before? Does he seem more tired or easily out of breath? Does he eat more/less and does he drink more/less? Does he suddenly start shedding a lot (this one will be difficult to assess as he is going to start shedding with longer daylight and warmer weather anyway). Just watch for any changes you notice.

 

Good luck to you and Larry

[CaliforniaGreys]

Dr. Dodds is the best

 

Ditto!!

[Guest Energy11]

WOW! I just learned A LOT!

 

 

This is great information, and I am happy that you have it, and are on the right track with Larry's dosage.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

Good for you, Adrianne, for being curious and for educating yourself on the medication........not knowing any better, I think a lot of us would have just assumed that since he'd been tested, that all was okay. I'm sure Larry says, thank you!

Edited March 9, 2010 by PiagetsMom

[seeh2o]

Dr. Dodds is the best

 

Ditto!!

 

!!!!

[greypuppyluv]

Dr. Dodds is the best

 

Ditto!!

 

Thankfully, not everyone thinks this way .

[seeh2o]

Dr. Dodds is the best

 

Ditto!!

 

Thankfully, not everyone thinks this way .

???

[CaliforniaGreys]

Dr. Dodds is the best

 

Ditto!!

 

Thankfully, not everyone thinks this way .

???

 

One must consider the source

[Guest Greytluv]

Dr. Dodds is the best

 

Ditto!!

 

Thankfully, not everyone thinks this way .

Will you please substantiate this? You are always slamming Dr. Dodds, and you've never been to Hemopet nor have you even met Dr. Dodds

 

[Trudy]

So somebody doesn't like Dr Dodds. So what. Move on.