Food Allergy/ibd

[Guest Fasave]

Did I take the phrase "around here" too literally? Sounded geographic to me.

 

I'm aware of the theory of hydrolyzed protein. And that it's the standard answer from vets about IBD diets. Even that it's *considered* the gold-standard answer. But I stand on my assertion that not all IBD dogs do well on those diets. And that my definition of a great vet is one who can think outside the box to find alternatives for individuals who aren't thriving under any given protocol. Just my opinion.

 

My IBD dog did not do well at all on the prescription diets such as z/d. He was severe IBD with a lot of other issues but I ended up using a veterinary nutritionalist who developed a home cooked diet specific for his needs. He did very well on it.

[Batmom]

Well, sure not all dogs do well on it .... But it is the logical "go to" food for calming down a case of food allergy or IBD. And in OP's case, something else changed -- the medication. So I don't know how you could say the food is the problem when there was another significant change in close proximity to the soft stool.

[greyhead]

I didn't say the food was the problem. (At least I didn't intend to.) I just said there are alternative foods, if and when they need to be explored. Just cuz food is an important variable in treating IBD.

 

I'm not sure Z/D is the "logical" go-to food either, with all due respect. It's the option that has the imprimatur, or whatever we want to call the general blessing, of the veterinary community in general. I've heard from an impressive number of GTers who have handled their dogs' IBD problems with raw food alone, without medication even. Many, many others have done well on commercial formulas using novel proteins.

 

Let's please not get into a tiff about the difference between anecdotes and data, though some say a thousand anecdotes do equal data. Come to think of it, I've seen statistical analysis run on as few as 17 human subjects, which isn't even enough to make a decent study! My point is, now and always, that owner observation of how the dog is doing on any regimen may be more informative and useful than standard treatment expectations.

 

Did I say something to offend you, Batmom? Was it the suggestion that the vet might not have the best and broadest view of the food problem? I mean, I *love* my vet, but she's human and she's missed a few. And because she's as good as she is, she doesn't take it personally when I've caught the ones she's missed! But what I really love about her is that when she discusses diagnostic and treatment alternatives, she's careful to point out the ones that represent veterinary orthodoxy versus other, possibly better, choices. Maybe I'm spoiled!

[Batmom]

Nope, didn't offend me. I just don't understand why you'd think the vet doesn't have a good grasp of things (that seemed to be what you meant -- I may have misread). Z/D and a few prescription foods like it are the only hydrolyzed protein foods out there. For an IBD/allergy dog, until you know what sets them off, Z/D is the least "crapshoot" of the options out there. Even a novel protein could cause a reaction whereas, at least in theory, Z/D shouldn't.

[greyhead]

Ah, I see. I was reacting to the OP's paraphrase of the vet's statement: "even venison isn't novel around here." It seemed like the vet considered novelty to be a consideration of place or geography -- like "we have venison in the woods, so it's not a novel protein." I see what you mean about not being able to guarantee that any protein, like venison, is novel because of how complicated modern foods have become. Also, we greyhound people tend to try a lot of foods while we're looking for the one best for our dog. I wonder if the fact that my dog had one meal's worth of duck four years ago when he was still well, for instance, makes duck now entirely unuseable as a novel protein.

 

This conversation has reminded me of a question I've toyed with over the last year and a half of Spencer's intestinal problems. That is, I wonder if it's necessary to avoid any protein they ever had before, from birth, or if it's really only important to avoid the ones that have been consumed during the inflammatory troubles. We tend to use the word "allergy" and "inflammation" interchangeably sometimes, and it confuses me. It seems like IBD dogs respond to some proteins as if they were allergic to them, but it's not a food allergy per se. It's just that there's an inflammatory process run amok, perhaps from bacterial infection or parasites for instance, and now the gut freaks out whenever foods consumed during the inflammation reappear. I don't *know* this for sure, but it seems plausible to me. Maybe that's why some IBD dogs reportedly can actually go back to proteins eventually that previously promoted more inflammation but don't once the inflammation has been brought under control for some period of time.

 

This thread seems as good a place as any to discuss this. But I apologize if I'm boring people to bits with my speculations! Beyond that, who in their right mind wants to have a fight with Batmom?!

Edited March 5, 2010 by greyhead

[Batmom]

Well, those are some good questions! It makes sense that some dogs might be able to go back to previous foods once the inflamm is under control for a time. I don't have a sense of how often that happens, tho -- maybe somebody else does?

[Guest Hazel]

I have a grey who will be 10 in June. He has always had what I would call abnormal stools...ranging from soft formed to pudding texture. 10 weeks ago he developed diarrhea. Vet says it was from food allergy. He has been on three rounds of flagyl, amoxicillen, and continues prednisone. We have been trying to wean him off to no avail. He gets to day 3-4 off of pred and 2 weeks off of antibiotics and he relapses. I was so excited yesterday to see a normal stool and thought we had finally made a breakthrough. Today however, it is back to semi soft loosely formed. This was his third day off pred and 2 weeks since last round of antibiotics. My vet says he may need to be on pred and antibiotics indefinitely. We have been feeding him Z/D diet. I just can't believe this is as good as it is going to be.

 

I still work full time and on his pred day he drinks more and pees like a race horse. He is confined to kitchen, but he pees so much it is difficult to contain and I am getting so discouraged. Has anyone had similar experience? Does it ever get better? Is my vet on the right track. What about azulfidine for maintenance? Budesonide instead of prednisone? I am in need of some advice and encouragement. Thank you for any help.

 

 

hi, this may be long and wordy but I think it will also be very helpful. I have a 5yr old and she came to me with the worst D and the most HORRIBLE breath and also gums as RED as a fire engine!!! after many vet visits we---

1. teeth cleaned 2. prednisone ( down to 1/4 tab daily) 3. I do cooked food am I am working with a holistic doc.

I will also say I used Natures Recipe SENIOR 2 1/2cups 2xday plus 1 tsp pepto each meal WORKED EXECELLENT..FIRM POOP

 

my dog would get the D because of both the bacteria in her gums from the tartar buildup and also after working with this new doc, I fine the other foods that have many different protiens, and sweet potoes and GRAINS, oat!! she was highly allergic to. The NR Senior worked great for the poop she went more often but very firm with the added fiber and less protien!!I went through all the different foods and that worked the best!!

 

hope this helped somewhat. also you can hold back on giving the dog too much free water all day as long as it's avaliable when you are home to monitor it. good luck

[Guest my2greys]

We have a non grey that has IBD... His gut leaks proteins and cause big issues.

 

Anyway... We have had a lot of luck with our dog with a

Gluten, Casein, Soy, Corn and now Beef free diet.

 

I learned a lot from www.dogtorj.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

He is a veterinarian who himself is gluten intolerant. He didn't know it most of his life till he read an article of all things. He went Gluten and casein free and his fibromyalgia (sp) went away among MANY other things. He started realizing the tie to those ingredients and the animals (dogs) he was treating. He puts stuff out there for free on his site i think you will be amazed at what you find. He does mention IBD.

 

Good Luck..

[Ragsysmum]

Have you tried any food based on something other than chicken? Some dogs just don't seem to be able to cope with chicken in any form (even if the body isn't supposed to be able to recognise it as chicken, as you say).