Parvovirus Outbreak In Stratford/bridgeport, Ct

[Batmom]

The link posted earlier includes one statement with no substantiating references or studies. It really would be nice to see more if more is available. I haven't found anything either.

[Batmom]

 

What equates with Parvo/Distemper vaccines are Measles/Mumps etc... We get these vaccines as children and have lifelong immunity. Because you are old or sick you do not have to be revaccinated for Measles.

 

 

That is what I was talking about. Evidently it isn't clear that those vaccines do provide lifelong immunity, particularly for the elderly and immunocompromised, and for those who live in an essentially measles-free environment. We've *assumed* that they provide lifelong immunity. The WHO link provides a brief discussion of this issue and probably some other articles amongst the references. Again, they're talking about people -- who live a looooooooooooong time -- rather than dogs, whose lives are all too short. But it's interesting to read.

 

My point is just that an immune-compromised dog is a dog more at risk than the average pupper.

 

 

I personally suspect that a lot of immunocompromised dogs have a genetic root to their issues, as many immunocompromised people do. I don't read a lot on that topic, tho.

[Guest mcsheltie]

I found two in my books in less than a couple minutes. See post #20 for text.

 

Canine Medicine and Therapeutics (ISBN: 978-0-632-04045-2)

Dr Schultz

 

I got to get off here and get my work done... Good night all

[Guest Swifthounds]

I am not a scientist, I am only a proactive owner who is very into researching issues that concern me. But when the primer immunologist in the country (arguably the world) has the same view point, I feel I should try to prod people into doing some research for themselves. The information is out there!

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

 

The link posted earlier includes one statement with no substantiating references or studies. It really would be nice to see more if more is available. I haven't found anything either.

 

Transient immuno suppression is a pretty general principle of immunology, so I wouldn't expect you'll see it discussed with citations in the context of a journal in the field or in something designed for information for consumers. Transient immuno suppression occurs in a whole range of contexts, not just following vaccination with MLV or multiple MLVs. It happens following illness, while on antibiotics, while on corticosteroids, and in other naturally occurring and artificially induced contexts. The particular time period associated with transient immuno suppression as a result of vaccination with MLV vaccines depends on the particular vaccine and its components.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I saw that link to the PDF file and read the posted text from the book. I'd like to trust Dr. Shultz, but he provides no references. I want to see a study that tested this vaccine-induced immunosuppression, not just someone (even a doctor) saying it exists. Did Dr. Shultz do a study of his own maybe? Sure transient immunosuppression exists in other areas, but I have never heard of vaccine-induced transient immunosuppression before. It may well exist, I don't know, but I want to read some studies on it.

 

 

I personally suspect that a lot of immunocompromised dogs have a genetic root to their issues, as many immunocompromised people do. I don't read a lot on that topic, tho.

Probably. I haven't done much reading either though.

 

WAG foster Becky, who went into a full-blown autoimmune attack after receiving 9 vaccines in one day, also had a sister with similar problems. Her sister wasn't as bad as Becky, but they are the only two we know of who had such severe reactions, and many more Greyhounds were S/N and vaccinated by that same Kansas vet.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

Edited February 26, 2010 by LindsaySF

[Batmom]

Transient immuno suppression is a pretty general principle of immunology, so I wouldn't expect you'll see it discussed with citations in the context of a journal in the field or in something designed for information for consumers.

 

I'm not reading information for consumers. I'm reading immunology and microbiology articles and have not run across it even once. I would expect to see the mechanism described, or at least a mention thereof, particularly in articles about vaccine efficacy, time to immunity, response to boosters, etc.

 

Again, if you have references, please share.

 

 

 

[Guest LindsaySF]

Ok I found some information. Schultz actually published an article in 1987 where he says "It was concluded that CPV does not cause immunosuppression and that immunosuppression does not play a significant role in the pathogenesis of canine parvovirus disease". (Phillips TR, Schultz RD. Failure of vaccine or virulent strains of canine parvovirus to induce immunosuppressive effects on the immune system of the dog. Viral Immunol. 1987;1(2):135-44.)

 

I also found this presentation given by Dr. Shultz, he actually gives references for his statements in that one.

 

Modified live CDV vaccines also create a transient immunosuppression for up to 9 days when combined with canine adenovirus 1 or 2 (Phillips T.R., Jensen J.L., Rubion, M.J., et al. Effects of vaccines on the canine immune system. Can J. Vet. Res. 1989;53:154-160). In recent studies using (Recombitek® C-4 and C-6) rCDV, I have demonstrated that immunosuppression does not occur.

This 1989 article mentioned is available in its entirety for free on PubMed. I read it and gleamed the following:

 

The "transient immunosuppression" mentioned occured only when combined with CAV1 or CAV2, and even then only when a certain strain was used in the vaccine. And other immune system components were not affected, just the "lymphocyte response to mitogen". From the abstract: "The results demonstrated that the polyvalent vaccines used in this study significantly suppressed the absolute lymphocyte count and that most of the polyvalent vaccines significantly suppressed lymphocyte response to mitogen, but had no effect on natural effector cell activity, neutrophil chemiluminescence, nor antibody response to canine distemper virus."

 

Keep in mind they define immunosuppression by "suppression of lymphocyte response to mitogen", that's it. And they actually make a note in the discussion saying that decreased lymphocyte levels in the blood (lymphopenia) were seen but were not related to immunosuppression.

 

Going back to the 2003 article I posted earlier, that one says that postvaccinal decreases in cellular immunity (like the decreased lymphocyte response the 1989 article saw) were accompanied by increases in humoral immunity, meaning the immune system was reacting differently, but NOT suppressed. Another article from 1995 says the same thing: "It is considered that vaccination is immunomodulative rather than immunosuppressive." (Miyamoto T, Taura Y, Une S, Nakama S, Watanabe S. Immunological responses to polyvalent canine vaccines in dogs. J Vet Med Sci. 1995 Apr;57(2):347-9.)

 

I couldn't find any articles more recent than 2003, but I'm still looking.

 

 

 

To the OP, sorry that we hijacked your thread!

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Batmom]

Thanks for the clarification, Lindsay!

 

The WHO article I linked above does a pretty good job of describing many of the components of immune response, for those who are interested.

[RedFawnMom]

Can we back up a few steps? Are greyhounds vaccinated for Parvo as pups (I'm assuming yes - can't imagine they'd take a risk given how closely they share space at the track/farm)? Is Parvo part of the "normal" annual vaccines that most vets recommend? I guess I need to call the vet and investigate, but we just had Lucy in for her annual appointment and she only got Lepto and Lyme - is Parvo combined with another type of vaccine (distemper - which she got in August?)?

 

We live in CT (though a good hour+ from where the outbreaks have been). I guess I'm nervous because I have no idea what she was vaccinated for prior to us getting her at age 2 1/2.

[Batmom]

Parvo is normally given in combo with distemper (DHPP or similar). Quick call in to your vet on Monday would confirm that.

 

If I can sum up our messmaking above:

 

- some vets still give DHPP and rabies annually

 

- many vets follow the AAHA guidelines and give those vaccines on a 3-year schedule instead since it's pretty clear that they do protect for at least 3 years

 

- some people feel those vaccines last longer than 3 years; there is some evidence that that is probably true for most dogs who were properly vaccinated/boosted as puppies; thus some folks (and vets) vaccinate adult dogs only as required by law (usually applies to rabies only)

 

- if in doubt, you can also titer instead of vaccinate; generally more costly than vaccinating; check with your state as to whether titer is acceptable under rabies immunization laws

 

- none of the above applies to "non-core" vaccines such as Lyme, bordetella (kennel cough), leptospirosis; those are given annually or more frequently for dogs in at-risk areas

 

Hope that helps a bit.

[Guest Swifthounds]

The "Distempter" vaccine given by most vets is a combination vaccine, sometimes called DHPP (Distemper, Hepatitis, Parainfluenza, and Parvovirus) or DAPP (Distemper, Adenovirus, Parainfluenza, and Parvovirus) The difference there is merely semantics. Adenovirus and hepatitis are equivalent terms.

 

- if in doubt, you can also titer instead of vaccinate; generally more costly than vaccinating; check with your state as to whether titer is acceptable under rabies immunization laws

 

Just one thing to add, since it really didn't arise in this thread.

 

You can titer in lieu of re-vaccinating for distemper (distemper and parvo) in most places. There have been states that have required distemper by law, though it's not common. Some jurisdictions within states will also require distemper and may accept titers instead. They are not common, but it's a good idea to check.

 

With rabies, you can titer for your own peace of mind, but it has no legal standing. For purposes of complying with Federal regulation and state and local ordinances, you basically have two options for compliance with law: vaccinate (every 1, 2, or maximum 3 years) or get a rabies waiver (where available, usually needs to be recertified by a vet, often annually, and many states require that an actual medical condition (not fear of having one) be stated). Rabies waivers (where available and where your dog qualifies) exempt the dog only from the requirement to get the rabies vaccine, not from other rabies laws. If the "waivered" dog is alleged to be involved in an incident 9with wildlife, another pet, or a bite to a human) the laws and regulations regarding the handling of unvaccinated dogs apply (and they vary depending on the situation and the particular place).

 

If you want to check the laws applicable to you, be sure to check state, county/parish, and local (municipal, incorporated city, etc.) laws. They all apply and can be more stringent than the Federal standard, but not more lenient.

[RedFawnMom]

Thanks very much for the info. I just realized we got Bordatella in August, not Distemper - Distemper was last year, so we're well covered by the 3-year window. I will call the vet tomorrow just to double check that Parvo is included in the Distemper vaccine they gave her.

 

Thanks!

[Guest Swifthounds]

Thanks very much for the info. I just realized we got Bordatella in August, not Distemper - Distemper was last year, so we're well covered by the 3-year window. I will call the vet tomorrow just to double check that Parvo is included in the Distemper vaccine they gave her.

 

Thanks!

 

 

You probably have nothing to fear. Hounds that raced generally have had 2-3 combo "distemper" shots and a rabies as puppies and then another "distemper" and rabies at 1 year of age before they go to the track around 18 months old. Also, many adoption groups revaccinate every dog coming through, so a lot of them will have had another distemper and rabies then as well, plus any you've given since then.

 

If you (or anyone else) is interested in titering, Dr. Jean Dodds of Hemopet does titers (and other bloodwork) more reasonably than most vet practices. All you do is print the directions sheet and take it to your vet so he/she knows what to draw and how to prepare it. The site also includes mailing directions. The thyroid testing done there is far superior to what you can get elsewhere as well.

[cleptogrey]

the bottom line is to watch out for the symptoms. diaharreah(sp?), cramps, some vomiting. it can easily be passed off as a stomach bug, but if your vet knows of other cases in the area he/she will act promptly upon treating it. that's why my saluki was able to survive. i had him at the vet within 3 hrs. of the onset of symptoms. i did not kid around knowing that it was in the area.