Perfect In Every Way Except..

[Guest scfilby]

So.. Cy is really the perfect pup other then his severe spookiness.

 

He adopted our bed as his safe spot shortly after he came home, and we have let him sleep with us. He is very happy and content sleeping between us, but our old girl Mickey will sleep on the bed also, regardless of room or not. So it gets pretty crowded..

 

 

Cy will sleep in the crate in our room or on the couch, but he prefers our bed. Lately the two hounds on the bed have been too much for me, and Cy has been sleeping in the crate. Normally DW will lead him off at bed time and he goes into the crate no issues.. Sometimes he leaves the crate during the night and goes to the couch but generally spends the entire night in the crate..

 

A couple weeks ago, I went to lead him off the bed and he growled at me. Normally he will whine for a second when DW leads him off but that is the extent of it. The growl was a complete surprise. I lead him off anyway, and everything was fine..

 

Last night I went to lead him off and he did the GSD and snapped at my arm. I lead him off anyway, and he jumped right back on, then stood in a very guarding pose. I touched his butt to nudge him off, another GSD and another snap. I went for his collar, another GSD and another snap.. He stood there guarding the bed, and raised his lip every time my hand went towards his collar.. DW had enough and lead him off with no issues..

 

So.. what gives? It almost looks like he is so scared he is defensive. His behavior does not appear to be resource guarding, he has NO space or sleep aggression, no food or toy guarding, nothing...

 

I know the fix, just not sure what is prompting the behavior, almost fear based it seems..

[Batmom]

I'd say your assessment is accurate. That's become a safe place for him, and he is frightened when you go to lead him off, not terribly happy but willing when your wife leads him off. So, some difference between you and DW.

 

One of the things that can help when pup is fearful in a not-so-friendly way is to pick a different spot in the house and make a game (with really good treats, of course) of "go this way," "go the other way," "up you go," "off now," or whatever your commands will be. For training activities (won't work re your bed), note that men tend to be less threatening when they kneel or squat.

[macoduck]

When leading him off the bed, did you pull on his collar or attach a leash? One foster acted much like your boy until I used a leash to get her off my bed.

[greysmom]

I would say that he definitely sees you and your DW differently in the heirarchy of his home. It's OK for DW to move him but not for you to move him. Try using a leash instead of grabbing his collar. Many greys seem to view that as threatening. The other suggestion is to use a yummy treat to lure him off the bed. Plus training in a command - all mine know "off" which I use when I want them to move - and I don't even need to touch them.

[Guest Shana]

Is he dominant/defensive in anything else that you try to do for/with him? (I am assuming not, since you didn't mention it)

I believe that dogs set pecking orders in the wild and in the home, so perhaps he sees himself higher up above you in this order, which would explain his dominance in this situation. You do not aggrivate the dogs who are higher than you, and he may be seeing it this way.

But maybe he doesn't. Dunno.

Don't let it bother you when you do try to lead him off the bed, as it sounds like you don't so far.

Try the leash and keep working at it. I think he will get the hint with repitition. I would suggest you completely take over this task of leading him off the bed - do not let your wife do it at all until he is comfortable with you leading him off.

[fourofem]

I'll chime in with another vote for the leash (and working with treats). Early on, I did that with Kevin and for some reason, he didn't feel as threatened with that on.

[Guest gecko_foot]

So.. Cy is really the perfect pup other then his severe spookiness.

 

He adopted our bed as his safe spot shortly after he came home, and we have let him sleep with us. He is very happy and content sleeping between us, but our old girl Mickey will sleep on the bed also, regardless of room or not. So it gets pretty crowded..

 

 

Cy will sleep in the crate in our room or on the couch, but he prefers our bed. Lately the two hounds on the bed have been too much for me, and Cy has been sleeping in the crate. Normally DW will lead him off at bed time and he goes into the crate no issues.. Sometimes he leaves the crate during the night and goes to the couch but generally spends the entire night in the crate..

 

A couple weeks ago, I went to lead him off the bed and he growled at me. Normally he will whine for a second when DW leads him off but that is the extent of it. The growl was a complete surprise. I lead him off anyway, and everything was fine..

 

Last night I went to lead him off and he did the GSD and snapped at my arm. I lead him off anyway, and he jumped right back on, then stood in a very guarding pose. I touched his butt to nudge him off, another GSD and another snap. I went for his collar, another GSD and another snap.. He stood there guarding the bed, and raised his lip every time my hand went towards his collar.. DW had enough and lead him off with no issues..

 

So.. what gives? It almost looks like he is so scared he is defensive. His behavior does not appear to be resource guarding, he has NO space or sleep aggression, no food or toy guarding, nothing...

 

I know the fix, just not sure what is prompting the behavior, almost fear based it seems..

 

From what you're describing, that sounds like dominance behavior. I'm not condemning you for backing off - I did it (for about 2 seconds) when Tumnus snapped at me for messing with his teeth. But IMO, the fact that DW had to lead the dog off the bed himself means that Cy won. I can't say that some fear didn't exacerbate the situation because I didn't see it.

 

I know you didn't ask for this, but here's my two cents:

 

I don't think that using treats to get him off of the bed is appropriate simply because they are a temporary fix. They may work in the beginning, but the dog will eventually become desensitized to the reward (unless he's very food-motivated). Having said that, once you get him off the bed, treat him and give lots of praise so that he knows what you want. I would recommend putting a leash on him so that you have a way to correct his behavior and get him off the bed without getting bitten. Now that he knows you will back off when he snaps, he's more likely to keep trying it. You just have to teach him that being nippy doesn't work with you.

 

I apologize for rambling and for giving redundant (probably undesired) information, but I hope this is helpful. Good luck, and hang in there!

[Guest earlkattangrey]

I also agree this is a dominance issue and he does not respect you. You simply need to be able to control him in these circumstances, and his attitude will be adjusted naturally as a result. Right now he controls you. The leash is all you need to regain control. Without it the only tool you have is body language, which isn't nearly as easy to employ effectively, especially with him on your bed. Make sure he has it on when he might be inclined to sneak into bed.

 

I personally would not treat him after he got down. But it would be a GREAT time to ask him to do something for you, in another room, any sort of trick or command will do - and treat him for that. Knowing he works for you will remove the ambiguity he feels about who's in charge between the two of you.

[cleptogrey]

whose bed is it? sounds like boundries have been crossed. maybe a spare bedroom w/ crates and dogs beds might be a good idea and your room off limits for the time being. what set it off???? testing, dogs test us as much as kids do, some more than others. thank d-g you are not dealing w/ a terrier, they never stop testing and they need to be reminded of boundries forever...that's owning a terrier, i know i had terriers for 18 years.

[Guest earlkattangrey]

I personally would not restrict him from the situation causing the problem. IMO that is like avoiding other dogs in public because your dog reacts improperly to them, or putting them in another room when company arrives because they jump on them, instead of teaching them what IS acceptable behavior. Avoiding the situation does not solve it, they must be shown the proper way to act by facing the situation. Especially with dominance issues, which can quickly translate beyond the one "trigger" situation.

 

Except I would say after some training sessions with the leash, perhaps he should not be allowed bed access. Only on your terms and with proper behavior should he get a benefit like that.

Edited February 25, 2010 by earlkattangrey

[NevadasMom]

Trolley did this & she is now banned from the bed when I am in it. That's MY territory & she has learned to respect that. I suggest NILIF-works wonders!

[Guest AGirlNamedMe]

Totally agree that this is a pecking order issue and that it should be brought under control quickly.

 

He may be a spook, but he has to learn that there still behaviors that are unacceptable.

 

Treats as a lure have not been a permanent solution here.

 

The few times Bella has growled at one of us, we Voice of God her immediately (unless we're so stunned that we're staring at each other trying to figure out what the heck just happened) and that has corrected the problem.

 

But..you know your doggy best and probably know (or can figure out) what is going to work best in your circumstance.