Anyone Fighting Kidney Failure/disease

[3DogNite]

well, after 4 hours at the vet, i've learned several things.

 

blood work changes fast. in a good way for us, maybe something was really off at the first vet, but Rascal BUN and CRE last night were much better, still bad, but better. last night his BUN was 47 and CRE 3.2 - this is better from the BUN of 78, 2 weeks ago.. weird how that works.

 

Rascal has HIGH blood pressure, 120 normal, rascal at 175

 

Rascal in the last day or two has cried out a couple of times when he stretches really big,, my vet felt around his tummy,kidney area. Rascal cried out. so i approved an ultra sound. i wanted to know if this nightmare has turned into something even worse.

 

ultra sound showed very badly misshapen kidneys, he said they were very small and that rascal also had crystalizing in the veins? or tubes? around the (shoot, not the gall bladder, mm.. maybe it was the pancreas.) can't remember. anyway. he called rascals kidney disease Glomerular-Tubular disease. and said he in advanced stages of kidney failure. he said it didn't really matter now what rascals blood values are, the look of the kidneys is giving us the direction of what to do next.

 

i went ahead with the UPC test. don't have that back yet. forgot to ask how long that would take. but this will tell us more clearly how much protein is being dumped into urine. and if rascal takes off eating and feels better with the stuff we will do, i will probably do another UPC test as a comparison.. maybe not,, all i care about is if he'll eat or not,, and is he happy or not. that will be seen soon enough with the following plan.

 

I also learned how to do the SubQ fluids, i'll be giving rascal 1 liter a day, vet says this could be enough to make rascal feel better to eat more.

rascal will take enalapril for his blood pressure.

baby asprin to help prevent blood clots (i guess the crystals are such that they could break off and do some damage.)

i'm giving the SubQ fluids daily

he'll be taking pepcid, extra omega 3 fatty acids and tramadol

 

vet also said rascal prognosis is not good. a month or two, maybe a bit more,, considering his eating habits I can see this, don't like it, but i understand it. he explaned that this kind of kidney failure isn't so much about the blood values, but about the amount of protein coming out of the urine - it's the glomerular protein loss that is the really bad part.

 

so, we have a plan, we'll see how rascal feels,,,, i hope he feels much better so he wants to eat,, but if not, then we have to decide how much longer we want to put him thru feeling so crappy all the time.

 

that's all for now, should be enough, don't ya think~

Lorinda

 

 

 

Last year Rascal had pre-anesthesia blood work done. Vet said he is starting to show signs of kidney problems:

Bun:31

CRE:2.1

spec gravity: 1.014

Pro: 3+

( i have more, but i think this works for my comparison) let me know if you want more info....

 

NOW one year later: and 6 lbs lighter:

Bun:78

CRE:3.6

spec gravity: 1.025

pro: 4+

 

right now he is TRYING to eat the KD diet, kibble. and fat balls (the only thing he is eating willingly) i have been pushing food down his throat because he has been refusing to eat Anything at all!!!

he is on an Anti nausea pill - hoping to get him interested in eating again.

 

his poop and pee are regular and he seems pretty happy. he is on tramadol for aches and pains, and he gets some supplements, when i can get him to eat.

 

What are High blood/urine levels and a dog still happy with life. I have heard - when the BUN gets over 150 that's when you should worry or think about end of life time... then i hear no my dog's BUN level was at 250 when we really started worrying. I've also heard that dogs are really sick when their levels are about what Rascal's are now.

 

Just trying to find a point of reference. I think i'm realizing that all dogs kidneys behave and progress differently and that maybe I shouldn't worry about the Values as much as just the quality of life -

 

I am waiting for an apt with a specialist for a more complete picture, just thought i'd get more information before i head in there.

Thanks for your input.

Edited March 4, 2010 by 3DogNite

[Guest Energy11]

Most dogs HATE KD kibble! Goldie detests it!

 

She loves the Purina Renal NF kibble. You might want to try it, and/or it's canned version.

 

RE: the numbers, I'd probably contact OSU with these numbers and questions. They will most likely know the right answers.

 

Contacts for Dr. Couto and the staff: couto.1@osu.edu

Greyhound@cvm.osu.edu

 

Hoping they can help answer your questions, and sending you lots of love and many prayers!

[3DogNite]

Most dogs HATE KD kibble! Goldie detests it!

 

She loves the Purina Renal NF kibble. You might want to try it, and/or it's canned version.

 

RE: the numbers, I'd probably contact OSU with these numbers and questions. They will most likely know the right answers.

 

Contacts for Dr. Couto and the staff: couto.1@osu.edu

Greyhound@cvm.osu.edu

 

Hoping they can help answer your questions, and sending you lots of love and many prayers!

 

 

I REALLY hate to bother them with a NON Cancer issue. Do you think I should? I know how busy they are, just based on the number of people who contact them from GT, let alone their other "regular" patients.

 

I will try the purina kibble too.. others have said the same thing to me.. Can't hurt to try.

Thanks!

[CaliforniaGreys]

Normal BUN for these guys is 26-27, and the Creat can differ. Most of mine have run a normal Creat of 2.3 and as long as that BUN is normal, the high Creat is normal.

 

With Rascal's high BUN, it's no wonder the poor guy doesn't want to eat.

 

I had good luck with the KD canned, and I know quite a few people had better luck with the Purina kidney diet.

 

When I got to this stage with Misty, the kidney diet went out the window and I gave her anything and everything so she would just eat.

 

Keeping handsome Rascal in my prayers

[Burpdog]

Try Solid Gold Holistique Blendz. I personally would not feed a k/d kibble.

 

Acupuncture and chinese herbs have been shown to help.

 

forgot to ask/say: if he is on a NSAID talk to your vet -- it should be stopped.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Burpdog

[Guest Energy11]

Most dogs HATE KD kibble! Goldie detests it!

 

She loves the Purina Renal NF kibble. You might want to try it, and/or it's canned version.

 

RE: the numbers, I'd probably contact OSU with these numbers and questions. They will most likely know the right answers.

 

Contacts for Dr. Couto and the staff: couto.1@osu.edu

Greyhound@cvm.osu.edu

 

Hoping they can help answer your questions, and sending you lots of love and many prayers!

 

 

I REALLY hate to bother them with a NON Cancer issue. Do you think I should? I know how busy they are, just based on the number of people who contact them from GT, let alone their other "regular" patients.

 

I will try the purina kibble too.. others have said the same thing to me.. Can't hurt to try.

Thanks!

 

 

Shoot, I have emailed Dr. Couto, asking what local sedation protocol was right for Goldie. I'd go ahead and send the info. They probably LOVE the "easy stuff!"

[Guest ss556]

I would suggest the specialist to check the blood pressure which seems to be high a lot of times with kidney disease. There are meds for that. Alan didn't like the prescription foods so I cooked for him. I hope someone will chime in here with that website called dogaware or something like that about renal disease. My best wishes.

[tbhounds]

Yup, numbers are getting high. Also what's concerning is the protein in the urine--PLN--what was you pups blood protein values (albumin and globulin)?. Did your vet run a UPC test on the urine? Also the urine should be cultured to rule out an infection. My girl has PLN and even though her BP was normal Dr Couto started her on BP meds and low-dose asprin ( please don't start the aspirin w/o a Dr's order). Agreed--most pups hate kidney friendly diets but, I have had luck alternating between N/F and K/D. I also home-cook a low protein diet. The recipe was prescibed to me via a Cert. Vet Nutritionist--Dr Remillard (Tufts) You can have a phone consult with her over the phone and she will design a recipe for you pups condition.

[3DogNite]

Yup, numbers are getting high. Also what's concerning is the protein in the urine--PLN--what was you pups blood protein values (albumin and globulin)?. Did your vet run a UPC test on the urine? Also the urine should be cultured to rule out an infection. My girl has PLN and even though her BP was normal Dr Couto started her on BP meds and low-dose asprin ( please don't start the aspirin w/o a Dr's order). Agreed--most pups hate kidney friendly diets but, I have had luck alternating between N/F and K/D. I also home-cook a low protein diet. The recipe was prescibed to me via a Cert. Vet Nutritionist--Dr Remillard (Tufts) You can have a phone consult with her over the phone and she will design a recipe for you pups condition.

 

 

I don't know about a UPC test (what is a UPC test?). Rascal has been on cephalexin for 6+ weeks, so I don't think he'd still have any infection. I don't think we checked his BP either.

ALB: 2.5 I don't see anything about globulin, is there an acronym for this?

 

These are all good points. Rascal has an apt next week and this is exactly what i wanted to find out.. things my first vet might not have gone over with me.

THANK YOU!!!

I'm going to keep Dr. Remillard's name for future reference. might have to go that route with the food.

[tbhounds]

The UPC test is a urine protein creatine ratio---it's an important test to run. I also wanted to correct myself--got the state right (Mass) but, Dr Remillard is not at Tufts--she's at Angell. Home-cooking is time comsuming but, it was necc for me--the commerical kidney diets are very rich in fat and gave my girlie diarrhea. The home cooked diet designed for my Kate is rich in fiber--diarrhea resolved. I don't cook for myself but, when it comes to my dogs you'll find me in the kitchen!!

[Guest madredhare]

My Tom Sawyer was diagnosed December 2008 with early stage kidney disease. He goes in every 3 months for bloodwork and now blood pressure checks. Definitely have the blood pressure checked. With kidney disease, sometimes there is high blood pressure. This then puts stress on the organs and the blood pressure goes up. Kind of a viscious circle. My Tom takes enalapril for his blood pressure. We have been doing this for about 6 months now and bloodwork has gotten a little better. Oh yeah, he absolutely hates the K/D. He has always been a picky eater. The only thing I can get him to eat is the C/D.

Edited February 24, 2010 by madredhare

[Guest handpicked]

Hi, Lorinda!! Rascal's numbers are definitely going up and that is a trend that I don't like!! Another test that should be run (besides what has already been suggested) is a microalbinuria to elucidate how much protein is being dumped into the urine. The important thing to know with kidney disease is that it takes 75% of the kidneys to not be working before the BUN/Creat go up in the blood. So to have them this elevated in the blood indicates that only 25% of the kidneys are now working. In a dog that has normal BUN/Creat, but you suspect the kidneys are starting to have issues, the first sign of this is protein in the urine (microalbinuria.) The only clinical signs seen at this time with the dog are very subtle weight loss due to the protein loss. They can stay at this stage for an indefinite period of time, but once the BUN/Creat start to climb, they are in true renal failure. The interesting thing with what you posted about Rascal's workup is that on the first urine sample, he wasn't concentrating his urine well (1.015) but on the second one (with the high BUN/Creat) he is concentrating normally at 1.025. Usually you would expect a dilute urine (more like the 1.015.) Definitely a good one to see a specialist about!! Checking the UPC and blood pressure are greyt suggestions too and should be done.

 

As for food, the k/d or N/F are great suggestions or their are several published home cooked diets for kidney failure. But if he won't eat, getting him to eat anything at all is what is important. I have seen dogs with a BUN of 50 that won't eat and I have also seen them eating all the way up to 150--just depends on the dog. A lot of people ask me if kidney failure is painful--my answer is no, but it is uncomfortable. As the breakdown products of the protein (BUN) and the muscle (Creat) build up in the body (because the kidneys are not working), these dogs feel nauseated (why they don't want to eat) and if it continues, they can get vomiting and diarrhea. That is why fluids become very important with these guys. Some are able to use subcutaneous fluids, but most dogs end up needing IV fluids. I am sure the specialist will be able to answer more questions. With kidney failure in general (in dogs), once the kidneys start to fail, you have very little time left, dogs just don't handle kidney failure well. I am sorry, Lorinda, but it looks like the time is coming to say goodbye to dear sweet Rascal!! My heart is bleeding for you!! Please feel free to contact me anytime about your boy!!! Love you both!!

[3DogNite]

Thanks Shelley!!!

 

Now I feel better prepared for our apt with the specialist next week.

 

We (DH and I) will do everything to keep our babies happy. Prolonging his time with us in a proactive way we can and will do.

 

We usually say: letting them go a day early, on a good, happy day, that is better than a day late.

 

I don't see Rascal as being at deaths door yet, for now he is still happy to be here, but know that his time will come. We all face this reality, usually before we are ready to!If I can find the right food, he may just surprise us.

 

He is my miracle boy!

 

Achillies tendon Rupture,, both legs ~ several operations to mend

Mis-diagnosis of Osteo.

a couple of bad HGE episodes

FCE last Aug. completely immobile, within 36 hours not back to normal, but doing a happy awkward jig in the yard!

Broken tail, with bone infection

now kidney disease.

Edited February 24, 2010 by 3DogNite

[Guest spider9174]

Try Solid Gold Holistique Blendz. I personally would not feed a k/d kibble.

 

Acupuncture and chinese herbs have been shown to help.

 

forgot to ask/say: if he is on a NSAID talk to your vet -- it should be stopped.

 

 

That's a good suggestion. I just had a foster that was showing signs of kidney disease. We did put him on a prescription diet, but the vet said that not all dogs will like or eat the Rx diets...so you might have to try others. We put him on Royal Canan LP to get his creatinin down it was over 3. Once that came down, the vet said we could go to a "good" senior diet. She recommended a protein content no more than 20-23% and a phosphorus content under 1%. SG Holistique Blendz fit right into that category. Others that did...Fromm's White Fish and Potato and Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato meet that too.

 

There are many people that also feed a natural diet--no kibble, all home prepared. I'm a believer in home cooked/raw and would suggest going to easier more digestible protein sources and lower phosphorus. But that is me...there are some websites that describe home prepared kidney diets.

[Batmom]

Wouldn't give up on your boy any time soon. We had a non-grey who lived for years with kidney disease. She actually lived longer than her breed usually does and died from something else.

 

Hugs and best luck.

[3DogNite]

I'M NOT GIVING UP!!!

 

going to look for different food, ones that were suggested here.

apt next week with a specialist.

more anit-nausea pills and/or pepcid to help his poor tummy

 

in the mean time,,, keeping my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that he finds something yummy wants to eat!!!

 

Thanks for all the advise!

[JohnF]

I'M NOT GIVING UP!!!

 

going to look for different food, ones that were suggested here.

apt next week with a specialist.

more anit-nausea pills and/or pepcid to help his poor tummy

 

in the mean time,,, keeping my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that he finds something yummy wants to eat!!!

 

Thanks for all the advise!

 

Unfortunately I know just what a roller-coaster ride it can be looking after a dog with CRF. I've lost 3 to it over the years and each case has been different in terms of how the disease progressed. I think it is important that you treat the dog and not necessarily the lab test numbers. My last one had signs of CRF for about 2 years and she died at 14. I'd just like to share a couple of sites that helped me enormously. http:www.//pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KIDNEYS - probably the best canine kidney resource on the internet today, and also the very clear information about CRF at www.dogaware.com.

Don't give up on your dog until the kidneys have actually failed, there is plenty you can do to help make their life comfortable and enjoyable. Good luck.

Edited February 27, 2010 by JohnF

[duncan41]

Rascal

 

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

Prayers for today's visit

[CaliforniaGreys]

[Guest fandogs]

I can't give you any numbers or medical advise.It's been a year since I was dealing with it. But I lost my Rhoda one year ago, Feb, to kidney failure.

I,too, subscribe to letting them go a day early, than too late.. And I was very worried about knowing when it was time.

Rhoda passed six months after her diagnosis.

She went from the most happy, joyful, full blooded dog, to a quieter, less animated pet, in less than 4 months. She was on three different meds, plus any food I could find that she would eat.

 

She had dropped a lot of weight, by the last month of her life, over 10 pounds. And her energy level was way down. (This was a dog that was always smiling)..and now rarely did I see that expression.

 

She finally stopped eating altogether, and no matter what I offered it was a "no".

(I'm a photographer) and I have taken pics of her all through her life.. I took many, on that last day... and when I enlarged them on my screen (computer) and printed them out.. it was there. The look I wasn't sure I'd recognize.. the look that said, "I'm ready".. you can let me go. I keep that photo in a frame in my bedroom as a reminder to let me be aware and accept what is the right thing to do.

I adored this dog... and will miss her forever.. but knowing I did the right thing, at the right time, makes me feel much better.

I hope your dogs illness takes it's time to progress.. keep loving your Rascal.. stay aware of his needs,and moods. And let him tell you when it's time.

good luck

[Remolacha]

I am sorry Rascal's results weren't better. The sub-q fluids and pepcid should make him feel better, hopefully more like eating!

 

I do have to say, when Sugar went into kidney failure, the sub-q's, and every tummy pill made, did not make her feel better. She flatly refused to eat, and I finally gave in and let her go.

 

I hope this isn't the case with Rascal!