Tough Decision Ahead - Beau Bit Our Baby Son

[Guest larkabee]

So we've had Beau for about 3 1/2 years, and he's always been sweet with us and with young children of our friends when they would be over at the house. He had snapped at my husband and me maybe a total of three or four times in that 3 1/2 years, usually when he was sick or injured. And he's been very good and sweet with our own son for the last 9 1/2 months since he was born.

 

But this morning, he snapped at our son, and got him on the nose. We were extremely fortunate - Sean only has a few scratches - but we realize we were a few millimeters from a serious medical emergency. It's the second time Beau has snapped at Sean - the first was a few months ago, and he didn't actually bite him. I don't think we can take a chance on a third, but my heart aches to think of giving Beau up. He is 7 years old, and I know older dogs generally have a harder time finding permanent homes. We always meant to be a forever home for Beau, but I don't know if we can do that at this point.

 

If you have any guidance you can give our family, please do. We love Beau very much, but obviously love our son more and are obligated to provide a safe environment for him. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Batmom]

Where was Beau, where was your son, and where were you when this happened?

[Guest larkabee]

Where was Beau, where was your son, and where were you when this happened?

 

All three of us were in our bonus room. I was on the couch, Beau was on the floor right next to me, and Sean was crawling around on the floor. He was crawling toward Beau's head, and when he was about a foot away, I heard Beau growl, but before I could do anything, he had lunged out and snapped at Sean. For a while we were very careful about Sean touching Beau's head or paws (he didn't get close enough to touch either this morning), but we had kind of slacked off because Beau was so gentle and would let him crawl by next to him, or crawl over his paws to get past him.

[gracegirl]

First, I don't have children (but might someday) so take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

If Beau had really meant to hurt your son, he would have. Sounds like Beau was giving a warning to BACK OFF. Most bites don't happen out of the blue, there are usually other signs leading up to the bite that the dog is unhappy, unfortunately those signs are very subtle many times.

 

I don't think I could bear giving either of my dogs up. I've had Grace for almost 4 years and she is also 7 years old. I could never, never give her up after what we've been through together. Instead I think I'd take the route of diligent supervision between dog and baby...if that is not possible I'd place either my child in a play pen or my dog in an x-pen.

 

Good luck. It sounds like you are caring owners who love both your child and your dog and would really like to make it work.

[Wonder]

I wouldn't give up a hound EVER - would you give up your son? (sorry, don't mean to be harsh but my pups are my kids)

There are always other solutions and I'm sure you will get many

[grey14me]

For a while we were very careful about Sean touching Beau's head or paws (he didn't get close enough to touch either this morning), but we had kind of slacked off because Beau was so gentle and would let him crawl by next to him, or crawl over his paws to get past him.

 

I would think this is your answer. Just because a hound has previously allowed something to happen, doesn't mean he enjoyed it. Allowing your son to crawl over his paws just seems wrong to me. I realize that some dogs (even some greyhounds) may be ok with this, but in general, I don't thin of greyhounds being wrestly type dogs who enjoy this type of thing.

[krissn333]

Ditto the above - if your kid isn't old enough to understand the idea behind leaving the dog alone if he's laying down, it's YOUR JOB to keep them apart.

 

Sorry, things like this just grate my nerves. Your dog is trying to warn your kid, and as I said before, if your kid isn't old enough to understand, then he shouldn't be allowed near the dog when he's resting.

 

Having a kid is a responsibility, and an even bigger one when there are pets in the home.

[Guest larkabee]

To be honest, I'm encouraged there are so many people who say 'find a way to make it work.' Thanks for the suggestions. Sorry, but I'm a new mom, and I guess new moms have a tendency sometimes to be super-overprotective, although I'm trying to be laid-back with Sean

Edited January 31, 2010 by larkabee

[Wonder]

I don't have kids but have had bites between hounds

Some suggestions:

muzzle him

keep them separate (baby gate)

don't let your kid crawl towards the pup

keep the kid in a pack n play when the pup is in the room

 

 

[Guest TeddysMom]

I never had skin kids so I can't begin to comprehend your feelings toward your son. I could never give one of my fur kids up since they are as close to children as I will ever have. I hope you can find a way to keep Beau. Maybe muzzle him while loose in the same area as your son. I know there a lot of people on GT that have greys and small children so maybe they can give you some good advise.

[krissn333]

As mentioned above, x-pen for the dog or playpen for the baby (I vote playpen for baby - mainly for space reasons). Don't allow both to be on the same floor at the same time if one (most likely the baby) is in motion. That's just ASKING for something bad to happen.

 

There's no such thing as being "laid back" with a baby in the house when you also have pets...that's just a recipe for disaster. VIGILANCE is what you want to have.

 

Until Sean is old enough to understand "we don't touch the dog if he's not standing up" it's YOUR JOB to make sure that Sean doesn't touch the dog unless he's standing up.

Edited January 31, 2010 by krissn333

[grey14me]

I think you're being too laid back...at least where the dog is concerned. I think it will be more of a challenge now because Beau has already felt like he's had no choice but to do what he did. Your dog is the one that needs protecting...he needs a safe space that he can go to at all times. Your son can't be allowed to torment him...and by that I mean what Beau would consider tormenting, not what you would consider. Sean should not be allowed to approach Beau when he's on his bed, period. He's now told you that he can't tolerate that...please pay attention.

[Guest PhillyPups]

First of all, I am sorry this happened. I have a son (grown now) whom I raised with dogs. It was my job to be viligant when Dustin was young. I hear you are torn between your son and your pup.

 

IIRC, 9 month old babies are exploring the world, they also nap about 2 times a day, and go to bed early. Those are times your pup can have free reign of the house. When your pup and son are both awake, a crate and aplaypen are your friends. If the pup is in the crate, watch that your son does NOT go near it. Think of the crate as you would an open flame with your son. This way your hound will know it is his safe place. (I learned this from my son who has a greyhound and my 3 year old grandson).

 

Constant vigilance is the key. Both your son and your dog need to feel safe. Never let your son crawl over your dog, never let your son crawl into the crate. If your son goes near your hound, or his crate, teach him not to with an ahhh ahh, no.

 

I say crate as the safety tool for you because I think a muzzle would be fascinating to an inquisitive toddler and draw the toddler with little fingers to explore the new thing.

 

It can work, but you are the key.

 

I was at my son's when my grandson was 2. I went to walk by Freya's crate and Cameron shook his finger at me and said "No no Granma Pat, NO touch Freya house". When Freya wants to be alone she goes and curls up in her crate.

 

Wishing you luck. If your hound wanted to hurt your son he would have. It is good you are taking the signs seriously.

[Sighthounds4me]

Please read Childproofing Your Dog by Brian Kilcommons and Sarah Wilson. If you have already read it, re-read it. There is good advice in there, as well as on this thread.

 

I do not have kids, and have little maternal instinct, so I will refrain from posting anything but the above.

[Guest Energy11]

To me, you have a lot of options beside giving Beau up. My DD had FOUR dogs, one, a small as a yappy 3 lb Yorkie, one, a large 170 lb. Great Dane, and a French Bulldog and Bassett Hound inbetween. My grandson is now 16 months, but, when he was small, my DD was diligent, with both her son and the four dogs. When she couldn't watch the dogs, there were crated, OR, Christian was in his Pack and Play.

 

NONE of my dogs would appreciate a baby (*and yes, with two grandkids, they've been around them), ... in their faces. Pretty soon your Sean (*I have a grown son, Sean :-), will get old enough to learn what he can and cannot do around his doggie, but until then, there are MANY ways to protect both your son, and your hound.

 

You made a committment when you adopted Beau, just as you made a committment when you gave birth to your "other son." ... Just my two cents.

[Guest larkabee]

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I am definitely going to put them to work and see if we can keep our household together and happy for many more years. Also, when I said I am trying to be laid back, I didn't mean to imply I'm not being vigilant, although I will confess to not being educated about the changing dynamics of babies and dogs once babies start crawling. I have learned a lot from this post, and from some other things I've read today. If you think I'm a bad skin-kid parent, or a bad grey parent, there's not much I can do about that but apologize and tell you I'm trying. But as I said, I am encouraged by your responses and suggestions, and that's what I was hoping for when I posted.

[Guest GentleHugs]

OK....

 

I'm a grandma to 5 grand daughters ranging in age from 8 yrs old down to 9 months old (the same as your son is). 3 of those grand daughters (including the 9 month old) live with us and have since the day they were born WITH Greyhounds living in the same home.

 

We've had Greyhounds now for 10 years. 7 total - 5 who have lived through the young infant/toddler years of the grand skin kids - with our current 3 hounds (ages 12, 8 and 7) now living with an 8 yr old, a 6 yr old and the 9 month old skin kids. The 9 month old is going through the "grab and pull" phase now. We have been working with her on how to open handedly pet one of our dogs under ADULT supervision wth an adult's hand OVER hers to guide and show her how to pet a dog properly. She's doing well and when she starts her "grab and pull" thing - we stop the exercise immediately. The dog is always in a standing position when we work on this exercise.

 

Let me say, it's tough sometimes to balance between furkid and skin kid. We are not perfect here and all of my grandkids except for the youngest one (who just learned how to crawl not too long ago) have been nipped by one of the dogs. Why? Because we let our guard down - that's why. It wasn't the dog's fault nor was it exactly the child's fault. It was the adult's fault who was overseeing the interactions between child and dog.

 

There are some rules that should be followed when one has kids and dogs together in a family. One is to never let your guard down. Pay attention to not only your dog but where your child is at - at all times. Have a quiet place to go for your dog to get out of the "line of fire" so to speak. Babies don't know any better - they love to explore everything and anything so it's up to you as the parent of both (fur and skin kid) to be responsible in the interaction between child and dog.

 

1. Babygates become your friend. Use them. They are made for a reason - to protect the child and also in this case - to protect the dog.

2. Do not allow the child to crawl near the dog. Some dogs take the eye to eye contact at their level as a threat.

3. Always maintain a safe distance between child and dog - say 4 to 5 feet or more.

4. Interaction such as petting should ALWAYS be supervised by an adult.

5. NEVER leave your child alone with your dog.

6. Always have a safe place available for your dog to retreat to when they tire of having baby around. Our safe place for the dogs to go to is our bedroom. The skin kids are not allowed in our bedroom.

7. If you have a pack n play (playpen as we used to call them back in the "old" days), you can use that, too, for baby to be protected from the dog.

 

These are just a few of our rules in our house right off the top of my head. They are not meant to criticize anyone though. I'm just speaking from experience - lots of experience. Please don't take this as I'm yelling at you or anything but the person who is at fault here is you unfortunately. You should have never allowed your child to get that close to cause Beau to growl - let alone nip your child. I'm truly sorry it happened for everyone involved. It could evolved into something far more serious as you are now well aware of. Let's try and move forward on how to prevent it from now on so you all can live in peaceful harmony within your home - Beau included.

 

Another thing I highly suggest you do is get the book titled "Childproofing Your Dog: A Complete Guide to Preparing Your Dog for the Children in Your Life" by Brian Kilcommons and Sarah Wilson and read it - several times if need be. You can find it relatively cheap on Amazon or maybe go to your local library and see if they have it available to be checked out. Actually, I wish groups would make this book a mandatory book for an adopter to get if they have children or plan on having a child in the future.

 

Hope this helps and if you need someone to talk to about this - pm me or email me: Therese@greyhoundaffair.com I'll try and do my best to help you through this so everyone in your family can be happy together.

[Guest Energy11]

OK....

 

I'm a grandma to 5 grand daughters ranging in age from 8 yrs old down to 9 months old (the same as your son is). 3 of those grand daughters (including the 9 month old) live with us and have since the day they were born WITH Greyhounds living in the same home.

 

We've had Greyhounds now for 10 years. 7 total - 5 who have lived through the young infant/toddler years of the grand skin kids - with our current 3 hounds (ages 12, 8 and 7) now living with an 8 yr old, a 6 yr old and the 9 month old skin kids. The 9 month old is going through the "grab and pull" phase now. We have been working with her on how to open handedly pet one of our dogs under ADULT supervision wth an adult's hand OVER hers to guide and show her how to pet a dog properly. She's doing well and when she starts her "grab and pull" thing - we stop the exercise immediately. The dog is always in a standing position when we work on this exercise.

 

Let me say, it's tough sometimes to balance between furkid and skin kid. We are not perfect here and all of my grandkids except for the youngest one (who just learned how to crawl not too long ago) have been nipped by one of the dogs. Why? Because we let our guard down - that's why. It wasn't the dog's fault nor was it exactly the child's fault. It was the adult's fault who was overseeing the interactions between child and dog.

 

There are some rules that should be followed when one has kids and dogs together in a family. One is to never let your guard down. Pay attention to not only your dog but where your child is at - at all times. Have a quiet place to go for your dog to get out of the "line of fire" so to speak. Babies don't know any better - they love to explore everything and anything so it's up to you as the parent of both (fur and skin kid) to be responsible in the interaction between child and dog.

 

1. Babygates become your friend. Use them. They are made for a reason - to protect the child and also in this case - to protect the dog.

2. Do not allow the child to crawl near the dog. Some dogs take the eye to eye contact at their level as a threat.

3. Always maintain a safe distance between child and dog - say 4 to 5 feet or more.

4. Interaction such as petting should ALWAYS be supervised by an adult.

5. NEVER leave your child alone with your dog.

6. Always have a safe place available for your dog to retreat to when they tire of having baby around. Our safe place for the dogs to go to is our bedroom. The skin kids are not allowed in our bedroom.

7. If you have a pack n play (playpen as we used to call them back in the "old" days), you can use that, too, for baby to be protected from the dog.

 

These are just a few of our rules in our house right off the top of my head. They are not meant to criticize anyone though. I'm just speaking from experience - lots of experience. Please don't take this as I'm yelling at you or anything but the person who is at fault here is you unfortunately. You should have never allowed your child to get that close to cause Beau to growl - let alone nip your child. I'm truly sorry it happened for everyone involved. It could evolved into something far more serious as you are now well aware of. Let's try and move forward on how to prevent it from now on so you all can live in peaceful harmony within your home - Beau included.

 

Another thing I highly suggest you do is get the book titled "Childproofing Your Dog: A Complete Guide to Preparing Your Dog for the Children in Your Life" by Brian Kilcommons and Sarah Wilson and read it - several times if need be. You can find it relatively cheap on Amazon or maybe go to your local library and see if they have it available to be checked out. Actually, I wish groups would make this book a mandatory book for an adopter to get if they have children or plan on having a child in the future.

 

Hope this helps and if you need someone to talk to about this - pm me or email me: Therese@greyhoundaffair.com I'll try and do my best to help you through this so everyone in your family can be happy together.

 

 

VERY EXCELLENT ADVICE HERE!

[krissn333]

Actually, I wish groups would make this book a mandatory book for an adopter to get if they have children or plan on having a child in the future.

 

Our group has made this required reading for anyone with children under the age of 5, and it is suggested to young couples without children who may be having children in the future.

 

That's all VERY good advice Therese...thank you for sharing your experiences and tips

[Charlies_Dad]

I am sorry this has happened to you and your family. I can see that you are asking for help which is great and means you want to do the right thing. Everyone has provided suggestions, some perhaps a little direct but they are in yours, your sons and Beau's best interest. A young child exploring and likely doing it more and more now that he is 9+ mths means changes for your pup that he is not accustomed to. I wish you the best in working out this situation.

[Guest GentleHugs]

Our group has made this required reading for anyone with children under the age of 5, and it is suggested to young couples without children who may be having children in the future.

 

That's all VERY good advice Therese...thank you for sharing your experiences and tips

 

 

I'm glad to hear that your group has made it a required reading material for anyone with children under the age of 5 or young couples adopting a Greyhound and thinking about having children in the future! That's Greyt!

And you're welcome, too. I'm just an old grandma with lots of experience in that area.

[Guest mpportraits]

Hello there, I am soooo sad that this happened and I know that hurt you are describing because we had it happen too. I have 2 sons, one now 6.5 yrs. and a 3 yr old. We got Phoebe our first and only grey when Gavin was less than 1 yr. old. We had several incidents with Phoebe snapping at the kids. When she actually snapped and got Gavin on the nose (no blood) my husband and I had a long talk. I do not believe in ever giving up an animal but like you said, you love your kids more. I wanted to explore every avenue first so I ran her down to the vet. He told me, there are several reasons a grey will snap at kids/people. 1. there's a problem with their backs and 2. a problem with their tyroid. We took xrays, Phoebe had a depressed back bone that was causing her pain and although the kids were not always near her backside, she snapped because she was overall in pain. We also did blood work and her tyhroid was a tad low, so we treated that as well. We've not had near as many problems since. It's not to say that Phoebe doesn't let them know when they've crossed a line. Just like they let her know when she's in their way. She doesn't have a voice, just a snap. Hang in there! We'rea ll here for ya!

[turbotaina]

I'll agree with others that you need to be more proactive here. However, I'll suggest a different book, rather than Childproofing Your Dog (while it's OK, I'm not really a fan of Kilcommins). The better book in my opinion is Living with Kids and Dogs (without losing your mind) by Colleen Pelar. It's MUCH more comprehensive and takes you through different stages of your child's and dog's lives. It's excellent and it's what we make any of our adopters with kids read.

 

Good luck

[RobinM]

OK....

 

I'm a grandma to 5 grand daughters ranging in age from 8 yrs old down to 9 months old (the same as your son is). 3 of those grand daughters (including the 9 month old) live with us and have since the day they were born WITH Greyhounds living in the same home.

 

We've had Greyhounds now for 10 years. 7 total - 5 who have lived through the young infant/toddler years of the grand skin kids - with our current 3 hounds (ages 12, 8 and 7) now living with an 8 yr old, a 6 yr old and the 9 month old skin kids. The 9 month old is going through the "grab and pull" phase now. We have been working with her on how to open handedly pet one of our dogs under ADULT supervision wth an adult's hand OVER hers to guide and show her how to pet a dog properly. She's doing well and when she starts her "grab and pull" thing - we stop the exercise immediately. The dog is always in a standing position when we work on this exercise.

 

Let me say, it's tough sometimes to balance between furkid and skin kid. We are not perfect here and all of my grandkids except for the youngest one (who just learned how to crawl not too long ago) have been nipped by one of the dogs. Why? Because we let our guard down - that's why. It wasn't the dog's fault nor was it exactly the child's fault. It was the adult's fault who was overseeing the interactions between child and dog.

 

There are some rules that should be followed when one has kids and dogs together in a family. One is to never let your guard down. Pay attention to not only your dog but where your child is at - at all times. Have a quiet place to go for your dog to get out of the "line of fire" so to speak. Babies don't know any better - they love to explore everything and anything so it's up to you as the parent of both (fur and skin kid) to be responsible in the interaction between child and dog.

 

1. Babygates become your friend. Use them. They are made for a reason - to protect the child and also in this case - to protect the dog.

2. Do not allow the child to crawl near the dog. Some dogs take the eye to eye contact at their level as a threat.

3. Always maintain a safe distance between child and dog - say 4 to 5 feet or more.

4. Interaction such as petting should ALWAYS be supervised by an adult.

5. NEVER leave your child alone with your dog.

6. Always have a safe place available for your dog to retreat to when they tire of having baby around. Our safe place for the dogs to go to is our bedroom. The skin kids are not allowed in our bedroom.

7. If you have a pack n play (playpen as we used to call them back in the "old" days), you can use that, too, for baby to be protected from the dog.

 

These are just a few of our rules in our house right off the top of my head. They are not meant to criticize anyone though. I'm just speaking from experience - lots of experience. Please don't take this as I'm yelling at you or anything but the person who is at fault here is you unfortunately. You should have never allowed your child to get that close to cause Beau to growl - let alone nip your child. I'm truly sorry it happened for everyone involved. It could evolved into something far more serious as you are now well aware of. Let's try and move forward on how to prevent it from now on so you all can live in peaceful harmony within your home - Beau included.

 

Another thing I highly suggest you do is get the book titled "Childproofing Your Dog: A Complete Guide to Preparing Your Dog for the Children in Your Life" by Brian Kilcommons and Sarah Wilson and read it - several times if need be. You can find it relatively cheap on Amazon or maybe go to your local library and see if they have it available to be checked out. Actually, I wish groups would make this book a mandatory book for an adopter to get if they have children or plan on having a child in the future.

 

Hope this helps and if you need someone to talk to about this - pm me or email me: Therese@greyhoundaffair.com I'll try and do my best to help you through this so everyone in your family can be happy together.

 

 

VERY EXCELLENT ADVICE HERE!

 

 

Agreed. Wonderful advice.

 

This is a totally workable situation. Beau had had enough and had probably given a warning that everyone missed. Since no one picked up on whatever warning he gave (probably body language) next came the nip- no bite. HUGE difference.

 

I am very happy to hear that your son is OK. I have a 2 year old grand daughter who is here all the time with my 5 greyhounds.

Edited February 1, 2010 by RobinM

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I don't have kids but have had bites between hounds

Some suggestions:

muzzle him

keep them separate (baby gate)

don't let your kid crawl towards the pup

keep the kid in a pack n play when the pup is in the room

 

This is what I do, minus the pack N play, though that's a fine idea too.

 

I have a ten month old.

 

However, hate me if you want- any dog that got up and snapped at my child who was not even within touching range would not reside here for long. The only exception I might make is for my 13 year old heartdog. I'd simply never let them together again unless the situation was completely controlled (muzzle on dog, dog on leash and child being held, etc). However, I would not subject a young healthy dog to such a life when he could find a fine home and a young, healthy HOMELESS hound that does NOT bite children could find a home with you. THERE IS NO SHAME IN PUTTING YOUR CHILD AHEAD OF A DOG! And, sometimes it works out BETTER for the DOG, too, if he's happier without kids around. I rehomed two Golden Retrievers last year for severe aggression. It was not directed at my child but I WILL NOT tolerate that in my home, towards me, or towards my other dogs. And you're talking to someone who happily manages five cat-zappers in a home with a cat, and who goes above and beyond to do what the poster I quoted suggests. Never had even the slightest hint of an issue with any of my Greys with me, with eachother, or with my son. and I do not isolate my dogs from me or from my daily life (I'm a SAHM and they sleep in the bed with me). I also have a husband more than willing to go above and beyond with our son so I can enjoy doggie activities and have special time with my dogs, as he knows what they mean to me. He also enjoys alone time with our son since he works a lot. My dogs are a priority as mentioned just a bit ago in another thread. But THE priority is my child. If you don't have one (which I never wanted to before) then you don't get it (and trust me, I didn't get it before I had my surprise baby either!)

 

HOWEVER...

 

There are ways to make things work out- if you are willing and able, and it sounds like you probably are. Just be careful. NO DOG will ever compare to your child, and it only takes a moment for a tragedy. NEVER get too comfortable. TRUST is a deadly disease- not just for dogs running off leash but for dogs and kids. Dogs are killed ALL THE TIME for biting children.

 

Oh and YES, wonderful post from GentleHugs, great book, and VERY smart idea to make sure it wasn't thyroid or pain motivated!