Zero Is Seriously Trying My Patience

[greydad92]

I might be hesitant to crate for 10 hours at a stretch simply because my own dogs can't "hold it" that long and need access to a dog door to relieve themselves. Zero might actually do okay with it. But muzzling with a basket-style muzzle, especially if you line the part that hits the nose with something soft, is perfectly acceptable IMHO. It prevents him from destroying your house and possibly getting injured by eating something harmful. I've seen greyhounds tossing stuffies with muzzles on, so yes they can still play with toys. They can't grab them and squeak them, but they're quite adept at using their feet and the muzzle itself to swat toys around. I would buy a good baby gate and keep Zero out of the problem areas. If he can't get in there, he can't cause trouble in there.

 

But ultimately, all of these are treating the symptoms, not the cause. It sounds like he still has a lot of puppy exuberance and is making trouble not out of malice, but out of boredom and pent-up energy. Is it possible for you to come home during lunch breaks, or to hire a trusted neighbor to take Zero for a walk for a small fee? That would be cheaper than hiring a pro.

 

I scheduled my dog walker to start coming for visits two days per week. I work 1/2 hour + from home and will try to get home one day / week to take him for a walk as well. I'm looking into a really good doggie daycare place recommended to me by my dog walker for him for maybe 2 days / week instead of the dog walker. I figure that would tire him out more. I won't go with the doggie daycare thing unless I'm 100% confident in the place.

 

Muzzle him during the day - I'm gone 10 hours a day, isn't that cruel to muzzle him for that long?

 

Crate him during the day - same deal, is it humane to crate him for 10 hours a day?

 

No. and No. What's inhumane is to not intervene to stop his destructive behavior before a) he gets into something really bad for him and/or hurts himself; or you get really, really frustrated with him.

 

There's absolutely nothing cruel about a plastic kennel muzzle. Some greyhounds are drama queens about them, but they're not going to harm him. On the other hand, the longer he continues on an escalating pattern of destruction, the harder it will be to break.

 

How old is he? How long have you had him? What activities do the two of you do together? Tell us more about him

 

he's 5 & 1/2 years old

I'll have him a year this February.

We walk for 1+ mile when I wake at 5am and another mile just before I leave for work

He's been fine for the first 9ish months, then he started getting into the chewing / destructive thing

I adopted him right from the track from a really good adoption place there

 

Oh my gosh, what a yummy dog treat! LOL

 

How about putting the stuff you want to thaw out in the microwave? Or the refrigerator for that matter.

If you're talking about 10 hours, that should be plenty of time to thaw out, shouldn't it?

 

It just seems to me that keepiing the food out of reach would be easier than keeping your dog out of the food.

 

Once they find these wonderful things, they don't forget too quickly.

 

Jenn

 

I was only gone for four hours today for the thawing. Suggestion well noted though, thanks

[seeh2o]

It's fine to muzzle him for that long, Carl and Claire are muzzled that long, occasionally it's a bit longer, and they are fine. It most definitely keeps them out of trouble. Carl won't be crated, which is fine by me, I hate having big crates sitting around the house. I also buy moleskin and line the inside top of the muzzle with it, there are no problems with rubbing or irritating their skin. I get the moleskin at the .99 cent store! I also leave radios on all over the house and give both dogs 3mg. melatonin about 1.5 hr. before I leave. I've had no luck with DAP, rescue remedy, etc., but the melatonin is a homerun. It doesn't make them sleepy or dopey, but when they sleep they really sleep. I also think it takes the edge off. The other perk is that it is making Carl's formerly bald thighs hairy! He's hairier than Claire now!

 

Good luck, this too, shall pass.

[Guest RocketDog]

I have one dog that stays crated during the day, the other two have access to the bedroom and living room and wear kennel muzzles. The rest of the house is off-limits and we close doors or use baby-gates to prevent access while we are gone. My dogs can eat, drink, lick themselves, gut stuffies, and do a whole bunch of other things with their muzzle on, but it keeps them from doing damage to the house or opening doors with their mouths (the foster almost has this figured out, augh!). I don't consider muzzling them cruel, and the dogs don't seem to mind - they never try to get the muzzles off, and they don't rub their faces on things like some dogs do when they want the muzzle off.

[krissn333]

Any way to block access to your kitchen?

 

Muzzle or crate isn't a bad thing when they are getting into things they shouldn't. Try it, see if it works.

 

If you can babygate him away from the kitchen as you mentioned, I would just put up TWO babygates, one on top of the other. I bought a pretty tall one at Menard's for about $20. If you stacked two of those on top of each other there's no way he could jump over it, and the bottom one could be left flush with the floor so no worries about him trying to crawl under.

 

Sounds like a tough situation...my dogs are so lazy they sleep all day. On the rare occasion they've had to be alone for more than 8 hours, it seems as though they don't care...they've just been napping

 

Do you live in an area where there is a lot of activity/car traffic? Only thing I can think of is, maybe he's chilling out napping, but he hears a car door shut or hears people talking, which wakes him up and makes him think you're home. When he realizes it's not you he's a little bit upset and thus begins the craziness.

 

Just throwing that out there...good luck!

[Guest PhillyPups]

I muzzle all 5 of mine for safety when I leave. When I get their muzzles in my hand, they hold their heads up for me to put then on them. I also muzzle when we go out in the van. They just did a 17 hour trip to FL muzzled and were find.

 

I think of a muzzle like a seatbelt. A safety tool. Iwould rather muzzLe and not need it than not muzzLe and find out I should have.

 

Zero is feeling at home and comfortable enough to explore his world. He sounds extremely smart which can keep one on their toes!!

 

Babygates and muzzle and all should be safe.

 

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[Batmom]

It's winter. He's bored. Sounds like you are doing all the right things. May just need to try some cabinet locks if the muzzle doesn't work. I feel for you -- mine have never been quite that enterprising.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

How about some good, hard free running a couple times a week? (some place safe of course!). How about an obedience or agility class? He does sound smart.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Just a note, I stacked two gates the first time I brought my first dog home, because she is a jumper and did not like her crate. Left her alone...she scaled the gates. Knocked the top one down, thank god she was okay!! Just keep in mind a determined hound will attempt anything to get to where he wants to be! You don't seem to have a choice here, a muzzle seems to be your only option right now. I will also say that my youngest boy seemed confused and upset when I let him have a run of the house when we weren't home, he likes his crate and understands that is his home, and that's where he is supposed to be. Just like a teenager with a curfew, they complain loudly, but secretly want you to give them limits.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and point something out...right now my dogs are really lazy, as are we. It's winter here in PA, I don't like to walk them with all the salt on the roads, and there are no sidewalks in my neighborhood. They don't want to spend too much time outside, it's been icy and deep snow, so they have been just laying around all the time. In the summer, they are more active like we are. I noticed you take him for a run in the morning (I think that's what you said)...do you think that is maybe winding him up? I mean, don't you feel energized and alert after your run? Could you switch the run to the evenings and then start your days off calm and lazy, then he can get all wound up when you get home at night, so you can play with him then? Just a wild suggestion, and I know that many many people just said to themselves...but but but a tired dog is supposed to be a happy dog....

 

I edited this to add, sounds to me like he is developing some separation anxiety. This can happen at any time in a dogs life, and there are many threads to deal with this on here! Good luck!

Edited January 17, 2010 by 4dogscrazy

[Guest twhitehouse]

I didn't read everyones reply, but I don't think that using a muzzle is cruel. Lexi was muzzled every day, everytime we left for 8-9 hours a day for the first year we had her. She's started chewing again and so I'm going to muzzle again. They can do everything they normally can do except get into things they're not supposed to.

 

Also...a tip. I don't thaw meat on the counter anymore. I put it in the microwave...Lexi hasn't figured out how to open that while I'm gone...yet!

[TinyMityMo]

I have a baby gate for the kitchen, but mine are closed into my bedroom when I leave for the day. They snooze on the bed all day. Once in a rare while if I leave a book in reach Bailey will shred it for me but otherwise they don't get into anything and I never have to worry that they will bother the cats (who are closed out of the room for the day).

[BootsyCollins]

You can get a babygate that will stretch across a wide opening. Go to babies r us or look online. We had one that goes up to 108" across or something like that. It was about $60 at babies r us.

 

Some dogs are just like that. My brother lives on 150+ acres and one of his 6 dogs is 11 years old and still gets into everything when left alone at home. However, a mile or even 2 miles in separate walks simply is not a lot of exercise. I would absolutey try to break up his day with a dog walker if you can at all afford it (looks like you're trying to do that stuff), or try walking him for a minimum of 45 minutes at a brisk walk every morning and then again at night.

 

Good luck.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I would block his access to the kitchen. It's just too tempting in there.

 

I have wide doorways also, and we bought an extra wide baby gate (Kidco brand) with 2 extension panels. On our other doorway we have a 4 foot tall exercise pen attached with screw-eye hooks. Works well.

[TheFullHouse]

Looks like you're going to have to stay one step ahead of him and that's not easy. I know because we have one in our home who ate 2 PDA's, 6 Remote Controls, chewed up so many pillows I can't even keep count, stuck his nose in the garbage disposal because he thought there was food in there and stole 2 salmon steaks from a hot skillet and that was with me here in the house! I can't imagine what he could accomplish if I worked outside of the home.

[seeh2o]

Looks like you're going to have to stay one step ahead of him and that's not easy. I know because we have one in our home who ate 2 PDA's, 6 Remote Controls, chewed up so many pillows I can't even keep count, stuck his nose in the garbage disposal because he thought there was food in there and stole 2 salmon steaks from a hot skillet and that was with me here in the house! I can't imagine what he could accomplish if I worked outside of the home.

 

WOW!!! One dog did all that? Over what period of time? You should be named Saint Judy! Sorry, hijack over.

Edited January 19, 2010 by ckruzan

[rallyp]

One thing I haven't really heard you say is if you spend much time doing training exercises with him. He seems to get a good amount of physical exercise, but I'm wondering if getting some additional mental stimulation would help. I've always found with Lima that she gets more 'ornery' when I get slack on doing our training stuff. But when I start doing it again, she settles down again during the day when I'm away. And this isn't really hard stuff, just basic clicker training for 10-15 minutes in the morning before I leave, rehashing all the stuff she knows, doing it in different orders, and maybe just working on one new thing. He really does seem like he's bored, and on top of that, he's curious and has an active mind. Instead of just giving him his toys and kongs, you might try to set it up so that he has to 'find' them. Hide them under different obstacles or whatever. I'm always amazed at how much mental stimulation will go with tiring out my dog.

[seeh2o]

One thing I haven't really heard you say is if you spend much time doing training exercises with him. He seems to get a good amount of physical exercise, but I'm wondering if getting some additional mental stimulation would help. I've always found with Lima that she gets more 'ornery' when I get slack on doing our training stuff. But when I start doing it again, she settles down again during the day when I'm away. And this isn't really hard stuff, just basic clicker training for 10-15 minutes in the morning before I leave, rehashing all the stuff she knows, doing it in different orders, and maybe just working on one new thing. He really does seem like he's bored, and on top of that, he's curious and has an active mind. Instead of just giving him his toys and kongs, you might try to set it up so that he has to 'find' them. Hide them under different obstacles or whatever. I'm always amazed at how much mental stimulation will go with tiring out my dog.

 

Really interesting, good advice.

[Guest oldNELLIE]

Just one more thought to throw out...Do you think he is getting hungry? Nellie is not a chewer, but one night (while she was on a prescription soft food- not her normal food) she went totally bonkers. Whining, growling chewing on the coffee table, chewing on her bed, on the corner of the couch...and we were there trying to calm her down! She must have just been starving. We gave her a bit more food and she calmed down immediately which is how we know it was hunger related.

 

Depending on what time you feed him, maybe you could give him a small scoop of kibble before you leave?

[TheFullHouse]

Looks like you're going to have to stay one step ahead of him and that's not easy. I know because we have one in our home who ate 2 PDA's, 6 Remote Controls, chewed up so many pillows I can't even keep count, stuck his nose in the garbage disposal because he thought there was food in there and stole 2 salmon steaks from a hot skillet and that was with me here in the house! I can't imagine what he could accomplish if I worked outside of the home.

 

WOW!!! One dog did all that? Over what period of time? You should be named Saint Judy! Sorry, hijack over.

 

 

That was just in the first year. Part of the problem was training Mike and Kevin to put things away. This is how Arrow's name evolved from just Arrow to Dammit Arrow. He's a lot better now, usually it's the dog beds he wants to chew up when he gets excited or our bed pillows. I still to this day can't have decorator pillows on my sofa because he quietly chews them without me knowing and by the time I find him, it's too late, he's destroyed the pillow. I tried everything with him but nothing worked, he is very selective about what he chews and very sneaky. Yesterday he pulled the throw off the back of the sofa and he and Valentino were having a tug of war with it. Arrow saw me coming, dropped the throw and took off, so he knows he's being bad, and left Valentino holding the throw. Valentino just looked at me like "oh crap" and dropped it.

 

This was why I suggested a muzzle or confinement because short of locking everything up, there are just some dogs who are very determined!

[turbotaina]

One thing I haven't really heard you say is if you spend much time doing training exercises with him. He seems to get a good amount of physical exercise, but I'm wondering if getting some additional mental stimulation would help. I've always found with Lima that she gets more 'ornery' when I get slack on doing our training stuff. But when I start doing it again, she settles down again during the day when I'm away. And this isn't really hard stuff, just basic clicker training for 10-15 minutes in the morning before I leave, rehashing all the stuff she knows, doing it in different orders, and maybe just working on one new thing. He really does seem like he's bored, and on top of that, he's curious and has an active mind. Instead of just giving him his toys and kongs, you might try to set it up so that he has to 'find' them. Hide them under different obstacles or whatever. I'm always amazed at how much mental stimulation will go with tiring out my dog.

 

Yup, what Rally said. And what Cmoon said. You can do mile easily in 15/20 minutes. He should probably be getting a good brisk 45 minutes to an hour at one time to work off some of that energy. Walk quickly so that he has to jog - can do wonders and Rally's on it about the training and hiding the kong. The Buster Cube that Susan mentioned is another good one. My dog was never bright enough to figure it out but if you've got a smart, food motivated dog, it can keep him busy for a long time. And yeah, it's actually safer (from a food safety standpoint to thaw out meats, etc. in the fridge). Keep you both safe if it's not out in the open. Good luck, you've certainly got a busy-body there

[Guest PhillyPups]

Looks like you're going to have to stay one step ahead of him and that's not easy. I know because we have one in our home who ate 2 PDA's, 6 Remote Controls, chewed up so many pillows I can't even keep count, stuck his nose in the garbage disposal because he thought there was food in there and stole 2 salmon steaks from a hot skillet and that was with me here in the house! I can't imagine what he could accomplish if I worked outside of the home.

 

WOW!!! One dog did all that? Over what period of time? You should be named Saint Judy! Sorry, hijack over.

 

 

That was just in the first year. Part of the problem was training Mike and Kevin to put things away. This is how Arrow's name evolved from just Arrow to Dammit Arrow. He's a lot better now, usually it's the dog beds he wants to chew up when he gets excited or our bed pillows. I still to this day can't have decorator pillows on my sofa because he quietly chews them without me knowing and by the time I find him, it's too late, he's destroyed the pillow. I tried everything with him but nothing worked, he is very selective about what he chews and very sneaky. Yesterday he pulled the throw off the back of the sofa and he and Valentino were having a tug of war with it. Arrow saw me coming, dropped the throw and took off, so he knows he's being bad, and left Valentino holding the throw. Valentino just looked at me like "oh crap" and dropped it.

 

This was why I suggested a muzzle or confinement because short of locking everything up, there are just some dogs who are very determined!

 

 

And Arrow is tall and sneaky enough that he can take the biscuit right off your plate while you are eating and talking - ask me how I know that one. Arrow is a lover of bread!!

 

Did you try muzzling Zero today??

[Guest quietstorm]

I can totally relate to you on this issue - although mine was with a wonderful little dog named Hogan. From the day he was 7 weeks old and came into the house, he has been nothing but a cause of high blood pressure. I love the little dog but truthfully I will admit I often think 'what if'. I bought my first greyhound as a companion for Hogan and hopefully to help with his problems - constant chewing, constant energy, constant everything. Hogan is just constant. Unfortuantely Ranger was probably one of the worst dogs we could have picked as a companion but Force came along fairly soon thereafter and he was a pretty good friend - but it certainly did not solve the problem. If anything, Hogan taught Force most of his behaviours - Force just has the good sense to only need to be told one time.

Hogan has chewed all my trim, carpets, I have probably gone through 15 Costco beds in 1.5 years, I bought Rudy a beautiful pair of PJ's from B&T and within 2 days he had chewed it up. I had a chilly dogs rain coat for a raffle prize and Hogan ate it. My eyeglasses, my favorite sandals, my not so favorite sandals, slippers, more underwear than I can even remember, pretty much my entire bra collection - you name it. It amazes me the places that are safe places always somehow he manages to get. Screaming monkeys are put up high on the entertainment unit b/c Hogan rips stuffies apart within 3 minutes so I have to hide them. He is now trying to climb the entertainment unit. You can ask Alisha what Hogan has done to some of the most awesome collars we have - and she hasn't even seen them all.

I asked some people on some other forums what could be the problem and I gotta say it was very annoying to have people tell me my dog was bored. Or some said we should leash the dog to us at all times so he can't get in trouble. Hmmm - leashing my little 40lb dog to me who is stronger than my 90lb grey - tried that one time and he pulled me off the breakfast stool. Or put him in his crate when you can't be right with him all the time. Hmmm - putting Hogan in his crate would result in the dog going crazy and 'digging' incessantly until I couldn't stand it anymore. I know I'm certainly no dog trainer and we haven't done everything right but I do think Hogan is a cut above. I think he would be a challenge even for Cesar Milan himself.

He is more than adequately exercised. We go to the dog park and run that dog like crazy, long walks, with the gentle leader on of course, training sessions. I remember we even used to have one person stand at the top of the stairs and the other would stand in the kitchen and we would just keep calling 'Hogan come' and he would run, and run, and run back and forth for even the smallest treat. Funny, he never got tired of it - we would give up before he did.

Hogan is always crated when we leave the house. Both he and Rudy are crated when we're at work and some days it goes to 8 hours. They manage just fine but definitely need to blow steam after those days. I don't muzzle my greys either. Of course I have certainly thought of putting their baskets on Hogan - many times!

I don't have a lot of help for you I guess Just wanted to say I know it sucks - I have been at the end of my rope many a time with that dog.

[Guest Becki]

Ours figured out how to get into the chest freezer. If we hadn't lost 500.00 worth of food by the time we figured out how to fix that little problem, it would *almost* be funny.

 

Seriously, I think it is the winter weather. It is colder. They are less active outside. We are around more and it is just isn't the same flow as the spring/summer/fall when they get high adventures like going to the lake for the weekend two or three times a month. What has really helped has been training exercises. DS is working on a pet related merit badge for Boy Scouts and he is teaching the primary problem child new tricks. Several times a day, Nick gets to work on his exercises and he has been behaving so much better in other areas of life. Thank heavens, because I was about to snatch my own head bald.

[Guest Fasave]

Okay, I think I've read through most of the posts and I have a potential thought for you. IMHO, you need to calm down and slow down. These type of behaviors aren't always fixed easily or overnight. The two things I haven't seen mentioned is stress and change. I remember buying new furniture for my house about nine months post adoption when I thought we were in the clear with house breaking. When the new furniture arrived, I moved the old furniture to another room. My guy responded by peeing on every piece of furniture that had been moved. Was I angry. Absolutely but I thought about how much change he had gone through in the last few months. He finally was settling in to a new "bed" and environment and I come along and change it all. In his mind, he's likely thinking "oh no, first my bed (the old couch) moves, what's next". He doesn't know that a new couch is a better thing. So I kept my cool. Cleaned everything up, cuddled with him on the new couch and thankfully, he decided all was good in his world again. This guy has always been sensitive to change and when I forget, he'll let me know. We'll figure it out and move on. It' just part of sharing your life with a dog (any breed).

 

So let me ask you what type of reaction do you have when you see that Zero has done something wrong? When you come home and find the kitchen torn apart, do you start yelling at him or do you greet him with your usual "glad to see ya bud" voice. If you are reacting strongly when you walk in the door and start yelling at him for something he might have done hours ago, he's likely not putting two and two together. It may appear that he's "looking guilty" but his facial expression is more likely linked to the fact that he knows you're unhappy. All he knows is that he's glad you're home and you're NOT glad to see him. If this is happening every time you come home, he may not to be bored or lonely but stressed out about you coming home and getting yelled at and not knowing why. I know when I'm stressed I need to eat or do something. I don't know of many people or dogs who react to stress by curling up on the couch and sleeping. If you come home and find something he has done wrong, I would suggest that you try greeting him as normal, immediately taking him for a walk and remove him and yourself from the situation and spend some time unwinding and bonding. When you come home, calmly clean up everything and move on. You can only really effectively reprimand a dog and change behavior when you catch them executing that behavior.

 

I would also suggest that you get him into a routine quickly. I've found my dogs respond well to this as they are less stressed when they know what's going to happen next. If you can only afford a dog walker twice a week and you don't have extra time in the morning, then on days that you don't have a dog walker, you should make extra time at night to spend with him either going for long walks (more than 20 minutes), training, running errands in the car (weather permitting), etc. While you may be tired at the end of the day, remember this guy has been sleeping. Make small changes and see how he reacts, calm down and understand that some things take time.

 

Finally, it sounds like the kitchen is the biggest issue for him at the moment. I would find a solution (baby gate) to keep him out of the kitchen ALL THE TIME whether you are home or not. It just means the kitchen is off limits. This way he won't associate the you leaving with his access to the kitchen, it's just the way it is.

 

Best of luck!

[Guest TBSFlame]

Looks like you're going to have to stay one step ahead of him and that's not easy. I know because we have one in our home who ate 2 PDA's, 6 Remote Controls, chewed up so many pillows I can't even keep count, stuck his nose in the garbage disposal because he thought there was food in there and stole 2 salmon steaks from a hot skillet and that was with me here in the house! I can't imagine what he could accomplish if I worked outside of the home.

All while you were in the house. lol. Funny! I tell potential adopters that greyhounds sleep most of the time but there are exceptions to every rule. I think you and the op have the exceptions. I muzzle Riley b/c she cannot be trusted, but she is young. Are you telling me she may never grow up? lol.

[TheFullHouse]

Looks like you're going to have to stay one step ahead of him and that's not easy. I know because we have one in our home who ate 2 PDA's, 6 Remote Controls, chewed up so many pillows I can't even keep count, stuck his nose in the garbage disposal because he thought there was food in there and stole 2 salmon steaks from a hot skillet and that was with me here in the house! I can't imagine what he could accomplish if I worked outside of the home.

All while you were in the house. lol. Funny! I tell potential adopters that greyhounds sleep most of the time but there are exceptions to every rule. I think you and the op have the exceptions. I muzzle Riley b/c she cannot be trusted, but she is young. Are you telling me she may never grow up? lol.

 

We brought Arrow home just after he turned 4 and he'll be 9 next month. I think that probably answers that question. Every day when he hears the garage door open and knows either Mike or Kevin will be walking through he attacks one of the dog beds and I have to get after him to make him stop or he'll rip it open and spread stuffing everywhere. This is also the dog that AFTER we adopted him, his trainer told us that he would have to take Arrow to weigh in before racing all by himself. He would get so excited that he was uncontrollable.

 

He has gotten so much better the longer we've had him but he still has his "spells".