Another Osteo Diagnosis....

[Guest wholovesskunks]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just like so many of you, our Lenny was diagnosed with Osteo this weekend based on X-Ray alone. We are beyond devastated. He is 10 years old and I have 3 children at home, a 7 year old and 4 year old twins. Amp and/or chemo is not a viable option for us. We are going the pain management route with Tramadol and Medecam (sp?) and I ordered that herbal supplement from Holley Pharmaceuticals as well.

 

We came to find out because last Sunday he was holding up his leg and limping- we thought he hurt it running in the backyard. We immediately started Rimadyl and by Wednesday he was fine. Friday night he was limping again so we took him in first thing Saturday for the awful news.

 

So now, beyond being horribly sad, I do want to know how this progresses. Is he just going to slowly get sicker and in more pain? Obviously, we will not let him suffer- right now he is fine- the meds are working and he is his normal self. He has not lost weight- is still eating well- and is pretty active considering his leg probably hurts. It appears to be in the early stages based on x-ray and we plan to go back in 2 weeks to see how fast it's growing.

 

I have never had to dealt with something like this and just wondered how this is going to progress. Will he be fine for the next 6 weeks and then all of a sudden go down hill quickly or will it just be a slow process over the next few weeks? There is no visible tumor- his hock just looks a little swollen.

 

Thanks in advance for your responses!

[MP_the4pack]

While I ended up going the whole route, amp and chemo on a 12 yr old, one of the things that my vets are discussing with me (as we chat during Diamond's chemo) is that a lot of vets are trying to encourage just amputation if no chemo. If for nothing else, they recover quickly and the pain is gone. OS is a very painful disease.

My Diamond gets shoved all over by the 5 yr old brat (grey) that I have and she does terrifically.

And if nothing else. Talk with Dr. Couto. What a blessing to have him around.

[ozgirl2]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just like so many of you, our Lenny was diagnosed with Osteo this weekend based on X-Ray alone. We are beyond devastated. He is 10 years old and I have 3 children at home, a 7 year old and 4 year old twins. Amp and/or chemo is not a viable option for us. We are going the pain management route with Tramadol and Medecam (sp?) and I ordered that herbal supplement from Holley Pharmaceuticals as well.

 

We came to find out because last Sunday he was holding up his leg and limping- we thought he hurt it running in the backyard. We immediately started Rimadyl and by Wednesday he was fine. Friday night he was limping again so we took him in first thing Saturday for the awful news.

 

So now, beyond being horribly sad, I do want to know how this progresses. Is he just going to slowly get sicker and in more pain? Obviously, we will not let him suffer- right now he is fine- the meds are working and he is his normal self. He has not lost weight- is still eating well- and is pretty active considering his leg probably hurts. It appears to be in the early stages based on x-ray and we plan to go back in 2 weeks to see how fast it's growing.

 

I have never had to dealt with something like this and just wondered how this is going to progress. Will he be fine for the next 6 weeks and then all of a sudden go down hill quickly or will it just be a slow process over the next few weeks? There is no visible tumor- his hock just looks a little swollen.

 

Thanks in advance for your responses!

 

 

Hi wholovesskunks... welcome to GT - sorry it has to be in such circumstances.

 

Definitely have your vet consult with Dr. Couto and Ohio State U Greyhound Health & Wellness program - the consults are free & Dr. Couto has tons of experience and may be able to give you & your vet some good advice.

 

I'm sorry your Lenny and your family are going through this... Please post some pix of Lenny if you can.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I'm so terribly sorry! What heartbreaking news. It's just not fair.

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

I'm sorry to hear of Lenny's diagnosis.

 

The median survival without amputation and chemo is 2 months. Individual results are hugely variable; some get 10 months and some only a few weeks. The pain will progress and breakthrough the meds. When it does, you will have to increase his meds or make a painful decision. A Tramadol and Metacam combination is a good start. Usually Tramadol is prescribe in a low dose to start. Find out now how much you can increase it when needed (these things always seem to happen on week-ends or nights). If his pain is not being controlled, you can also see about adding Neurotin (Gabapentin). Osteo is very painful so it's important to keep the pain under control.

[Jackandgrey]

Oh no. Not another one. I'm so sorry. Which leg is it? When you choose palliative care - pain control, which is what I did too, it is hard to tell how long. I had 6 months and Jack was very comfortable. It is important to be on top of the pain management. Jack's was in his back leg and I always think that is easier than the shoulder.

 

Find out what his maximum dosage of Tramadol is for later when you might need it and the vet is not available. don't be afraid to adjust the dosage as he needs it. And of course spoil him rotten. Oh and pictures. take lots and lots of pictures.

 

I'm sorry this had to be your your introduction here but I promise you all the support in the world!

[Guest IrskasMom]

We WELCOME you to GT We are all here for you.So many of us have gone through this . I am so sorry to hear this bad News about Lenny . Spoil him rotten while you can.

[Guest wholovesskunks]

Thanks, Everyone for the support. I am definitely going to need it.

 

It's his back, right leg, hock-area. Luckily, my best friend is the office manager/vet tech at a great hospital here. So I pretty much have access to anything I need 24 hours a day. My biggest concern is whether he'll be all of a sudden bad or if it's gradual. Amp and chemo is out as we really can't afford it. Just the x-rays and pain meds alone are expensive and I can't put him through all of that just to have him pass in a year anyways.

 

The sadness is overwhelming and I can do little but obsess/cry/lament over it. I spend every waking minute watching him for pain, movement issues, etc... This is going to be a long 2 months I'm guessing.

[MandysMom]

No advice, just sending prayers for Lenny.

[Guest wholovesskunks]

I forgot to add- even if we could afford it, Lenny has had issues under anesthesia so amp is definitely out. Our vet said he wouldn't make it through the surgery.

[Guest KennelMom]

You will find a lot of great advice and experience here. And a lot more sympathy. Osteo is a VERY painful disease. VERY extremely painful. Pain management is absolutely critical and without amp or chemo, I think you should be prepared to say goodbye sooner rather than later. Basically, I wouldn't wait for the pain to be uncontrollable with meds or have to drug him into a stupor.

 

Edited January 11, 2010 by KennelMom

[BootsyCollins]

I'm so sorry. When our hound Argos was diagnosed, he lived another 4 weeks. We had a newborn and live in a row house with hardwood floors - amputation never would have worked, as he wouldn't have even been able to go in and out of the house.

 

He was on tramadol & rimadyl that took away just about all of his pain at first and then slowly couldn't touch it, even when I started doubling up on the tramadol.

 

I'm really very sorry. Please enjoy every moment you have with your boy.

[Guest wholovesskunks]

My main concern is that he is not in too much pain. Of course, dogs can't tell us so I'm going to have to use mobility as a guide.

[Guest Energy11]

I am sooo sorry to hear this. Our Max 11.5, had a VERY early diagnosis, and lived almost three months with pain management. I used Tramadol and Deramaxx. He did quite well for a while. Toward the end, he slept a lot, as I had to increase his meds. I made the decision to send him to The Bridge, when he stopped eating, and was hopping on three legs. He was able to move to the mountains with us, and get out of Florida :-)) Good luck with your baby, and sending you LOTS of prayers! Dee and The Five.

[Guest Smiley]

I'm so very, very sorry to hear this. We are in the same place you are, walking this journey with you. Please know I am sending you so many hugs and prayers.

[Jackandgrey]

You know your dog and your situation best so you never have to justify your treatment choice to anyone. We will support whatever you decide. Be prepared for it to be a rapid progression and then if it is not, well you are living with a gift. Remember always that Lenny is only living in the moment and not worrying or grieving about tomorrow. Take your cues from him.

 

Jack was diagnosed in May. After getting him stabilized on meds we had a glorious summer together. I even was able to take him to the lake one more time in August. He stared to decline in the fall and I had to let him go in November. But I was sure on the day he was diagnosed that I only had another two weeks with him. Everyday after that was a gift.

 

Your journey will be unique to you and Lenny. The only critical and consistent component is to manage his pain and then let him go when you can't. You may find that he has days that are worse than others but that he can recover from those. Jack had several of those. Or you may find that it is just progressively worse. Please remember we are here to support and help.

[djsgreys]

I am so sorry. Cherish each moment, take lots of pictures and spoil him rotten.

 

 

[ahicks51]

There's one option that has virtually no side effects, but there's also no proof it works. Low dose naltrexone (LDN) consists of administration of a small (single-digit milligram) dose of naltrexone, a drug normally used to manage narcotics addiction. There will be two problems:

 

1) Administration in conjunction with opioid pain meds (including tramadol)

 

2) Finding a doctor to prescribe it

 

It's inexpensive, very safe, but the "proof" that it works is strictly anecdotal. There's a group for it on Yahoo!:

 

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LDN_4_Pets/

 

The main pharmacy to compound the stuff for human and pet use is Skip's Pharmacy. Your vet can consult with them.

 

Skip's Pharmacy, Boca Raton, FL

(561) 218-0111

(800) 553-7429

 

A few people have found workarounds with the opioid painkillers, but I'm not familiar with them.

[Guest Isabella1]

Sorry to hear this. We had to put my male greyhound (Pirate) down the day after thanksgiving from Osteo. He got diagnosed the first of August 2009 from the same way. He came in one afternoon from running and was limping slightly. Took him to the vet a week later and got the same diagnosis. We chose not to amp. but to control it with pain meds. Only reason we did not amp. because the trust in our vet. Not a lot of Vets work on greyhounds around here. Pirate made it 4 months and up till the last week he was doing real good with the meds. (Same as yours). About 2 months in we had to up his trem. though. It was weird because he was doing good and it seemed his back legs just gave out and could not support him. That is when we new it was time. To be totally honest and watch out for this because these dogs love us so much they dont show us all the pain until it is really bad. We thought Pirate was doing really good but when we look back at his picture before and then after he was diagnosed you could see that he had changed. Like someone posted before, Spoil like crazy and whatever he wants give it to him. And just remember when that time comes he will beable to run and play pain free. You will be in our prayers.

[Guest mcsheltie]

There's one option that has virtually no side effects, but there's also no proof it works. Low dose naltrexone (LDN) consists of administration of a small (single-digit milligram) dose of naltrexone, a drug normally used to manage narcotics addiction. There will be two problems:

 

1) Administration in conjunction with opioid pain meds (including tramadol)

 

2) Finding a doctor to prescribe it

 

It's inexpensive, very safe, but the "proof" that it works is strictly anecdotal. There's a group for it on Yahoo!:

 

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LDN_4_Pets/

 

The main pharmacy to compound the stuff for human and pet use is Skip's Pharmacy. Your vet can consult with them.

 

Skip's Pharmacy, Boca Raton, FL

(561) 218-0111

(800) 553-7429

 

A few people have found workarounds with the opioid painkillers, but I'm not familiar with them.

What function does Naltrexone play? Is it pain relief or does it work on the cancer itself?

[ahicks51]

What function does Naltrexone play? Is it pain relief or does it work on the cancer itself?

 

It is reportedly an anti-cancer agent; it has little to do with pain relief (other than the obvious- screwing up the effect of opioid painkillers). A few people have reported remarkable success in managing cancer with the stuff; about 1/3 receive no benefit, another third have mixed results, and one third have clear-cut positive results. See also:

 

http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/ldn_and_cancer.htm

 

For instances where chemo and radiation are either not options or not desired by the patient, LDN is an alternative. The section on "Noteworthy Cases" on that page has several very interesting anecdotes, including this one:

 

"Esophageal Cancer. Reverend X is a patient at John Hopkins Hospital where he received most of his medical care. He first developed problems with digestion and some pain in the mid-chest area with swallowing in April 2002. An upper GI exam in May 2002 showed narrowing and irregularity of the lower esophagus. In June 2002, a C-T scan of the chest, abdomen and pelvis showed a 2cm thickening of the lower esophagus extending into the upper stomach. Also seen were five enlarged nodes in the chest and five in the abdomen. Rev X refused chemotherapy and began low dose naltrexone in August 2002. In the following months his difficulty in swallowing has significantly decreased and his weight has stabilized. He notes an improved sense of well being. He has had no therapy but low dose naltrexone."

 

Esophageal cancer has a very poor prognosis. (As an aside, another person wrote in to the LDN list, noting he had been diagnosed with esophageal cancer and given 11 months to live by one oncologist, 5 months by another. At 13 months, he was still practicing law- in court on a weekly basis- with LDN as the sole treatment.

 

There are no good studies on LDN and cancer, and there is certainly nothing on LDN + osteosarcoma. It's a longshot, but given how inexpensive and safe it is, it might be worth consideration.

[Guest Heehoo]

I lost Gogh a year ago this coming February. He started limping  on January 16th, no noticeable tumor. Was taken to the vet on the following Monday for xrays & diagnosed with it in his left front ankle area. I was recuperating from a bad fall, so all of this was done for me. I came home on the 22nd & talked with my vet who had seen the xrays. On the following Monday I took him to my vet & they did a chest xray & he already had a nodule in his left lung. I do not do amputation or chemo. By the time Gogh came home on the January 23rd he had an enlarged joint. I could put my fingers around his leg & touch them...by Feb 13th I could not. I had him put to sleep on the 16th of February & he had already started bleeding internally. My vet said he would probably have died by that Wednesday from internal bleeding. 

 

Gogh was on Tramadol for pain & he whimpered all night on the 15th, so I knew it was time. 

 

 

[Bevd]

I'm sorry to hear your news

[Houndtime]

I am so sorry to read this, but welcome you here. Seek out all the support and information that you want.

[Guest VaGreymom]

I am so very sorry. I lost my girl December 28th 2 weeks ago to Osteo. From the time Tawny started limping to the time we had to let her go was 3 weeks. Once we got the diagnosis she was in such severe pain. We could not manage her pain, For our girl she was in extreme pain, so much so that even with opiate pain medication, procaine in the joint, and sedation she could not extend her leg, it was just too painful for her. She knuckled her paw under. She was 7 and had osteo in her shoulder. I think every dog is different but osteo can cause severe pain. My heart goes out to you as you deal with this devasting news. I am still shell shocked.