Raw Feeding Basics

[XTRAWLD]

Don't feed any bone for a day or two. 80/10/10 doesn't need to be fed daily. Weekly works out better. They definitely don't need bone twice a day.

 

I have actually run the numbers on my raw diet and I know they are getting a balanced diet. I feed bone two times a week (I feed once a day) anymore than that and the mineral content is too high. They get a whole chicken on Tuesday and a couple turkey necks on Friday. The rest of the diet is red meat, eggs and organs.

 

In the beginning you feed more bone (usually on a daily basis) to keep the stools consistent. But your diet is already telling you that you are feeding too much and it is time to back off.

 

The ten percent you are missing are the organs. Since their stools are that hard you can now start adding a little pork liver. Start with two ounces in one meal and see what happens. A GH needs about 6 oz a week to get their requirements. I feed that 6 oz over a couple days, each week. Once they are eating liver with no problems, then start adding in other organs.

 

Thank you.

 

I have some tripe/organs that I'm introducing tonight. About a tablespoon each for dinner. I'll cut out the bone tonight. Should I still feed 80% for the meat or bump it up to like 95% today? My boy Kasey is terribly skinny and I'm trying to get him to gain weight, still doesn't look like there is any change yet, and I'm actually looking at him thinking he's LOST weight over the past week or so..... I'm not sure when I should expect to see results. Been feeding raw since Friday dinner. Thoughts?

[Guest greyhound9797]

Don't feed any bone for a day or two. 80/10/10 doesn't need to be fed daily. Weekly works out better. They definitely don't need bone twice a day.

 

In the beginning you feed more bone (usually on a daily basis) to keep the stools consistent. But your diet is already telling you that you are feeding too much and it is time to back off.

 

The ten percent you are missing are the organs. Since their stools are that hard you can now start adding a little pork liver. Start with two ounces in one meal and see what happens. A GH needs about 6 oz a week to get their requirements. I feed that 6 oz over a couple days, each week. Once they are eating liver with no problems, then start adding in other organs.

 

Thank you.

 

I have some tripe/organs that I'm introducing tonight. About a tablespoon each for dinner. I'll cut out the bone tonight. Should I still feed 80% for the meat or bump it up to like 95% today? My boy Kasey is terribly skinny and I'm trying to get him to gain weight, still doesn't look like there is any change yet, and I'm actually looking at him thinking he's LOST weight over the past week or so..... I'm not sure when I should expect to see results. Been feeding raw since Friday dinner. Thoughts?

 

McSheltie is absolutely correct about not feeding bone every day and that balance is created over time, not at each meal or even each day or two. Personally, I wouldn't add liver this soon (and any liver is fine, it doesn't need to be pork or beef or chicken; get what is available and reasonably priced) but everyone does things a tiny bit different. I also think that 2 ounces for the first feeding is too much. Most people start with a tiny little bit, maybe thumbnail sized, to see how the dog responds. But, if the stool really is rock hard it may not hurt to start adding it in now. You want it to be firm little pellets like you mentioned but your dog shouldn't strain too much and produce very hard stool.

 

Keep in mind that tripe is considered meat, not organ. Any organ that is a muscle (stomach/tripe, heart) is meat. Do you have raw (green) tripe and not the white tripe that you buy in grocery stores? That has been processed and bleached and won't provide the nutrition they need.

 

I would stick around 80-85% meat, don't bump it up to almost 100%; you might start getting loose stools. Too much of anything or too much of something too soon can backfire. You don't want to put weight on too fast, it should be a gradual increase. How many of Kasey's ribs can you see and how much does he currently weigh?

 

We'll help you and your crew get it all done.

 

Sandra in FL

[Guest Cris_M]

Don't feed any bone for a day or two. 80/10/10 doesn't need to be fed daily. Weekly works out better. They definitely don't need bone twice a day.

 

I have actually run the numbers on my raw diet and I know they are getting a balanced diet. I feed bone two times a week (I feed once a day) anymore than that and the mineral content is too high. They get a whole chicken on Tuesday and a couple turkey necks on Friday. The rest of the diet is red meat, eggs and organs.

 

In the beginning you feed more bone (usually on a daily basis) to keep the stools consistent. But your diet is already telling you that you are feeding too much and it is time to back off.

 

The ten percent you are missing are the organs. Since their stools are that hard you can now start adding a little pork liver. Start with two ounces in one meal and see what happens. A GH needs about 6 oz a week to get their requirements. I feed that 6 oz over a couple days, each week. Once they are eating liver with no problems, then start adding in other organs.

 

Thank you.

 

I have some tripe/organs that I'm introducing tonight. About a tablespoon each for dinner. I'll cut out the bone tonight. Should I still feed 80% for the meat or bump it up to like 95% today? My boy Kasey is terribly skinny and I'm trying to get him to gain weight, still doesn't look like there is any change yet, and I'm actually looking at him thinking he's LOST weight over the past week or so..... I'm not sure when I should expect to see results. Been feeding raw since Friday dinner. Thoughts?

 

 

If Kasey was skinny to begin with, I would suggest beef heart once he is a bit further along in raw feeding. It was the only thing that helped get Duncan up to an acceptable weight.

 

Since Kasey is new to raw, have you considered raising his food to 4% of his body weight? He may be a "hard keeper" like Duncan. Duncan is 8 1/2 and still eats more than 3% daily.

 

Personally, I like feeding about the same amount of bone every day. Maybe it's just Duncan, but we run into constipation or the big D otherwise. If you do feed bone every day, you might want to try chicken quarters. Those little organ things at the backbone are an excellent way to introduce organ meat.

 

Have fun!

[XTRAWLD]

I'm not sure if it's the appropriate thread to get into all this, but here goes.

Kasey's weight issue stems from the fact that:

1. He's not a big eater (this was on kibble) he so far isn't turning his nose up on the raw.

2. He is on prednisone to control his allergy breakouts and the kibble he was on was LID. Highly allergic to chicken. We have started raw feeding on pork.

 

My hope is that by turning to raw, we can feed him food that we know he isn't allergic to, and eventually get him off meds entirely. We can only hope. Further to this, the side effects being on prednisone are actually the opposite of what we should be happening. He does not have an increased appetite or thirst (thus he hasn't gained weight since being on it), and actually while not fully retaining urine, he has to pee for minutes when he does go out, even when not drinking very much water. The stress of being on prednisone since early 2008 has taken a toll on his body and his weight. At peak before meds and all this mess, he weighed 72lbs. He looked good at that time but IMO he could have done a bit better weight wise. There were always about three ribs visible. Right now he's about 69 to 70 and all ribs are showing. He only receives about 10mg of prednisone roughly every 4-5 days depending on how bad his breakout is. We are incredibly good at using it and not abusing it.

 

We took him to the vet in October last year when we noticed the constant weight loss, and according to the vet, he still seemed to be ok but to continue monitoring. This was based on his hourglass figure when looking at him from the top view. He is still well rounded where it counts, and hasn't "angled" off or in a triangular shape like you would see in an emaciated animal. His blood work has always come back fantastic. He was eating Natural Balance which was a limited ingredient diet and the vet said it was very good food...... IMO, because it was LID I felt that perhaps he was missing essential nutrients or even essential proteins that he should be having. Maybe whatever he had he just wasn't processing. Which takes us to today. I had changed from the LID shortly after that vet visit to another kibble food that fit within Kasey's allergic criteria. He seemed to do much better breakout wise with that food, but there was still no additional weight gain that we could see. His last weigh in was early March, and he was listed at 69. He is not just allergic to food, he has environmental allergies also - but that's another story and much more difficult to control.

 

So far, both Kasey and Ryder are responding incredibly well to raw. No D, no farts, no tummy rumbles, small stool (if any actually - they didn't poop this morning). I cannot get over how much their bodies are absorbing in comparison to the kibble. But where is it all going?!?! Thank you very much for any help.

 

I've adjusted their diet slightly since the last post. I introduced a tablespoon of tripe last night and did not include any bone. I plan to do the same today and maybe tomorrow. I'm currently using calculations of 3% for Kasey and 2.5% for Ryder. Keep in mind, I only started feeding raw on Friday night, so I don't want to make sudden changes, which is why I'm doing small tweaks here and there.

 

Thoughts on when I should see some weight gain?

 

Here is a "rear view" (He's the white one standing up taken in Feb) You can still see he looks ok, but compared to Ryder at his side, it's night and day

Edited April 5, 2011 by XTRAWLD

[Guest Swifthounds]

Small tweaks are the way to go when you're first getting started.

 

As for the weight, it's difficult to tell from the picture you posted (other than that Ryder is visibly heavier), but Kasey may not necessarily need more weight. Some dogs are leaner in build. The prednisone, in addition to increasing thirst/hunger and peeing, is a muscle wasting steroid, so that will tend to make him look leaner.

 

A greyhound at good weight will have slightly visible hip bones, two lightly visible ribs, and a few vertebrae. As for adding weight, over time you learn whether the amount your feeding maintains weight, isn't quite enough, or is too much. Once you find what maintains weight, you can increase food amount to get desired weight gain.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Swifthounds

[XTRAWLD]

We've had Kasey nearly 6 years now, so we know how good he COULD look. That's what bothers me. He's very skinny, all his ribs and his spine are visible which makes me so sad. I will try to get some side pics for comparison. We are starting with 3% of his body weight and see how he does over the next couple weeks.

[Guest Swifthounds]

For now it's good to stick with the 3% for a few weeks to get a good idea of whether that's enough, too much, or not enough long term. Too much food, like too much variety, can cause diarrhea, which won't help the weight. In two to three weeks you should have a good idea where you stand.

 

Also, you'll notice changes as you add variety. Beef and beef tripe or beef heart tend to be quite lean while pork and poultry are less so. He likely won't "wear" beef like he does poultry. For my crew that means that some nights my easier keepers get beef while the leaner dogs get pork.

[Guest greyhound9797]

You said, "So far, both Kasey and Ryder are responding incredibly well to raw. No D, no farts, no tummy rumbles, small stool (if any actually - they didn't poop this morning). I cannot get over how much their bodies are absorbing in comparison to the kibble. But where is it all going?!?!" It's "going" nowhere, but being absorbed and processed like you said. Without all the additional crap (sorry, but that's the only term that I believe describes all the extras in kibble; oh - and I just realized that's sort of a pun with the subject we're on!) there is less waste so you'll see less stool. Piper, at 60 pounds, pooped about the same amount as my cats who are on kibble (unfortunately they didn't take to raw).

 

Hopefully you will find less allergy problems with raw and will no longer have a need for the pred. My fingers are crossed for you!

 

Sandra in FL

[XTRAWLD]

Thanks everyone. This raw thing is a learning curve to begin with, but we are starting to narrow it down to a science. We'll get the pork thing sorted out, and then I'll have to sort the whole thing out when we switch to turkey!

[Guest KennelMom]

Just from the pics, Kasey looks good and Ryder looks heavy. Generally speaking, you should be able to see ribs on a greyhound. You should definitely be able to feel them easily.

Edited April 6, 2011 by KennelMom

[XTRAWLD]

Ya, the picture is sort of deceiving, but only the last rib on Ryder is visible, all can be felt. Hence why I don't want him to keep putting more weight on He's 75 lbs currently, but I'd like to get him down to 72 or so.

 

I totally forgot to take pics last night

Edited April 6, 2011 by XTRAWLD

[Guest bobber]

Hello

Well we made the jump and have started raw feeding!! Bobber has had 2 full meals of raw! We are having some nasty poo issues that i hope go away soon!!

I understand the 80/10/10 concept but what I don't understand is how you determine how much each piece of meat is when you are feeding something like chicken quarters??? That is what we have started with and want to continue with that till we see improvements in his poop! But is that too much bone if I feed a chicken quarter twice a day? should I feed some plain chicken meat? He's ideal weight is 70lbs but he is around 64 (lost weight when we brought him home) If I am reading everything correctly he should get 2.1 lbs per day. I didn't weigh the meat this morning, maybe I should have??

 

Please help a new raw feeder!!!

 

Wendy

[Guest Swifthounds]

Hi Wendy,

 

Welcome to raw feeding. I'll try to hit th highlights in answering you questions. Feel free to ask more questions or PM me.

 

Chicken leg quarters are a commonly suggested starter food. In part, that's because it has a daily high bone percentage. Two leg quarters each day would almost certainly be too much bone once your dog has adjusted, though for now it can be helpful in firming stool. For comparison, chicken backs are much higher in bone ( about 49%), necks are around 80%, and split breasts are closer to 15%.

 

You want to feed 2-3% of ideal body weight. If that's 70# it means he should have somewhere in the range of 1.4 to 2.1# of food per day. Even though he is below ideal And you want him to gain weight, I would start at the low end and adjust upward later if needed.

 

The two moat common causes of GI upset are too much variety too soon and too much food volume.

 

At the low end of the range, tour hound would get around9.8# of food each week. That means the organ (once you add those. - and I would wait a few weeks until things settle to introduce organs) and bone should be a total if just under a pound each week.

 

You don't need to weigh each meal or measure everything I'd you use common sense. I'd you feed 10# of something that's 15% bone you would just want to add a bit of extra meat. If you feed something that's 30% bone you'll want to add (or substitute) more boneless meat.

 

For now, I would stick to the low end of the daily ration. Quarters are fine until the GI tract settles. Once that Abilene, you can add in a bit of meat from another source ( like beef or pork) and eventually organ. No need to weigh I'd you buy trays of meat at the supermarket. It will tell you total weight on the package, just divide that roughly buy the number of pieces.

 

I used to have a lust if bone percentages. I'd I find it, I'll post it.

[Guest Ola]

Just from the pics, Kasey looks good and Ryder looks heavy.

This is what I was going to say as well, sorry. Of course it's not the best picture for evaluating weight but I think Kasey looks very good, a couple of visible ribs, a little spine showing, nice muscles on the bum. I wouldn't be trying to fatten him up but that's just IMHO.

 

Keep in mind that some dogs will self-regulate. My grey will refuse a meal or two if I've been feeding him more than he needs (according to his definition).

[XTRAWLD]

Just from the pics, Kasey looks good and Ryder looks heavy.

This is what I was going to say as well, sorry. Of course it's not the best picture for evaluating weight but I think Kasey looks very good, a couple of visible ribs, a little spine showing, nice muscles on the bum. I wouldn't be trying to fatten him up but that's just IMHO.

 

Keep in mind that some dogs will self-regulate. My grey will refuse a meal or two if I've been feeding him more than he needs (according to his definition).

 

Don't be sorry. I knew Ryder needed to lose weight before I started! Kasey is too skinny (he honestly needs 1 or 2 pounds more), if I had the side profile pics accessible I would add them but I'm at work. He does have a nice butt eh?

[XTRAWLD]

No sooner have I been worried about when Kasey will pack on weight - it has suddenly magically happened. Walking him yesterday (this is nearly a full week on raw) and his ribs are less pronounced and noticeable. I'm so happy!!!

[Guest greyhound9797]

Hello

Well we made the jump and have started raw feeding!! Bobber has had 2 full meals of raw! We are having some nasty poo issues that i hope go away soon!!

I understand the 80/10/10 concept but what I don't understand is how you determine how much each piece of meat is when you are feeding something like chicken quarters??? That is what we have started with and want to continue with that till we see improvements in his poop! But is that too much bone if I feed a chicken quarter twice a day? should I feed some plain chicken meat? He's ideal weight is 70lbs but he is around 64 (lost weight when we brought him home) If I am reading everything correctly he should get 2.1 lbs per day. I didn't weigh the meat this morning, maybe I should have??

 

Please help a new raw feeder!!!Wendy

 

Congratulations to you and Bobber! What's "nasty" about his stool? Runny? Smelly? Mucousy? It should clear up in no time and become small and firm with virtually no smell.

 

If you'd feel more comfortable weighing food in the beginning you can always buy a postage scale. I got one from Office Depot for less than $10 and used it for about 2-3 weeks until I was able to eyeball the approximate weight of the food. 2 quarters doesn't seem like enough food to me but if they're big enough, it might be. You'll probably notice in less than a week that the bone amount might need to be reduced but all dogs are different and the 80/10/5/5 is a starting guide. Let Bobber's body be the judge.

 

2.1 pounds of food is 70 lbs at 3%. I would probably start at 2% to see how he does on that, then after 7-10 days increase it to 2.5%, wait 2 weeks then increase to 3% so you can see how Bobber is adjusting to the diet and the increase in food. Putting weight on is easy; getting it off - not so much.

 

Good luck!

 

Sandra in FL

[Guest bobber]

Hello

Well we made the jump and have started raw feeding!! Bobber has had 2 full meals of raw! We are having some nasty poo issues that i hope go away soon!!

I understand the 80/10/10 concept but what I don't understand is how you determine how much each piece of meat is when you are feeding something like chicken quarters??? That is what we have started with and want to continue with that till we see improvements in his poop! But is that too much bone if I feed a chicken quarter twice a day? should I feed some plain chicken meat? He's ideal weight is 70lbs but he is around 64 (lost weight when we brought him home) If I am reading everything correctly he should get 2.1 lbs per day. I didn't weigh the meat this morning, maybe I should have??

 

Please help a new raw feeder!!!Wendy

 

Congratulations to you and Bobber! What's "nasty" about his stool? Runny? Smelly? Mucousy? It should clear up in no time and become small and firm with virtually no smell.

 

If you'd feel more comfortable weighing food in the beginning you can always buy a postage scale. I got one from Office Depot for less than $10 and used it for about 2-3 weeks until I was able to eyeball the approximate weight of the food. 2 quarters doesn't seem like enough food to me but if they're big enough, it might be. You'll probably notice in less than a week that the bone amount might need to be reduced but all dogs are different and the 80/10/5/5 is a starting guide. Let Bobber's body be the judge.

 

2.1 pounds of food is 70 lbs at 3%. I would probably start at 2% to see how he does on that, then after 7-10 days increase it to 2.5%, wait 2 weeks then increase to 3% so you can see how Bobber is adjusting to the diet and the increase in food. Putting weight on is easy; getting it off - not so much.

 

Good luck!

 

Sandra in FL

 

His poop is runny/ mucousy/ and smelly! I would describe it as the big D now. He is going very frequently and waking us up at night to go out, often running to get to his potty spot and then only passing a small amount of liquid poo (sorry for the detail!) I am going to get more chicken today and will probably get a scale just so i can double check the weight. I have also been removing the skin... just for a bit till his body get use to it.

 

I really am hoping that this clears up soon...

[XTRAWLD]

We were going great for a week and all of a sudden Kasey started getting the runs. It happened when we got to a run. Now Kasey even on kibble would get runs on days we went for a run (bad verbiage there)! He's super excited and it always results in very loose stool. Yesterday was almost explosive poop though. Finished our run (where he actually had a mishap and fell and got stepped on that resulted in a bleeding toe.) Anyway, threw up at 3am (food and the whole bit). We took him out and he had more of the runny, liquidy poop. His anus itself is very very dark, almost black. He's not the dog that throws up bile if his stomach is empty. He actually hasn't thrown up on us for YEARS so something is wrong.

 

My question that I need answered as quickly as possible - I'm currently getting some rice ready for him and that's it for now. Wondering if should fast him (probably the best idea) or give him anything else? He's allergic to chicken, so please no chicken broth suggestions...although I am considering beef??? He's also drinking, so no dehydrated issues yet.

Edited April 10, 2011 by XTRAWLD

[Guest greyhound9797]

We were going great for a week and all of a sudden Kasey started getting the runs. It happened when we got to a run. Now Kasey even on kibble would get runs on days we went for a run (bad verbiage there)! He's super excited and it always results in very loose stool. Yesterday was almost explosive poop though. Finished our run (where he actually had a mishap and fell and got stepped on that resulted in a bleeding toe.) Anyway, threw up at 3am (food and the whole bit). We took him out and he had more of the runny, liquidy poop. His anus itself is very very dark, almost black. He's not the dog that throws up bile if his stomach is empty. He actually hasn't thrown up on us for YEARS so something is wrong.

 

My question that I need answered as quickly as possible - I'm currently getting some rice ready for him and that's it for now. Wondering if should fast him (probably the best idea) or give him anything else? He's allergic to chicken, so please no chicken broth suggestions...although I am considering beef??? He's also drinking, so no dehydrated issues yet.

Fasting is the best idea, along with plenty of water. I'd fast for 24 hours then start with small meals. What exactly were you feeding a couple days before this started?

 

Sandra

 

Hello

Well we made the jump and have started raw feeding!! Bobber has had 2 full meals of raw! We are having some nasty poo issues that i hope go away soon!!

I understand the 80/10/10 concept but what I don't understand is how you determine how much each piece of meat is when you are feeding something like chicken quarters??? That is what we have started with and want to continue with that till we see improvements in his poop! But is that too much bone if I feed a chicken quarter twice a day? should I feed some plain chicken meat? He's ideal weight is 70lbs but he is around 64 (lost weight when we brought him home) If I am reading everything correctly he should get 2.1 lbs per day. I didn't weigh the meat this morning, maybe I should have??

 

Please help a new raw feeder!!!Wendy

 

Congratulations to you and Bobber! What's "nasty" about his stool? Runny? Smelly? Mucousy? It should clear up in no time and become small and firm with virtually no smell.

 

If you'd feel more comfortable weighing food in the beginning you can always buy a postage scale. I got one from Office Depot for less than $10 and used it for about 2-3 weeks until I was able to eyeball the approximate weight of the food. 2 quarters doesn't seem like enough food to me but if they're big enough, it might be. You'll probably notice in less than a week that the bone amount might need to be reduced but all dogs are different and the 80/10/5/5 is a starting guide. Let Bobber's body be the judge.

 

2.1 pounds of food is 70 lbs at 3%. I would probably start at 2% to see how he does on that, then after 7-10 days increase it to 2.5%, wait 2 weeks then increase to 3% so you can see how Bobber is adjusting to the diet and the increase in food. Putting weight on is easy; getting it off - not so much.

 

Good luck!

 

Sandra in FL

 

His poop is runny/ mucousy/ and smelly! I would describe it as the big D now. He is going very frequently and waking us up at night to go out, often running to get to his potty spot and then only passing a small amount of liquid poo (sorry for the detail!) I am going to get more chicken today and will probably get a scale just so i can double check the weight. I have also been removing the skin... just for a bit till his body get use to it.

 

I really am hoping that this clears up soon...

Hmmm...that is nasty poop! With what you've been feeding I wouldn't expect runny and smelly. Mucous is common in the beginning but goes away. Removing the skin is fine. Some people feed it, some don't. I would always take off the huge fatty pieces but if you're dealing with diarrhea now, the less fat the better. Can you get some slippery elm bark from a health food store? You might even be able to get it at a drug store. It will soothe the tummy.

 

Sandra

[XTRAWLD]

He ate for the whole week just fine. Great results, it was still our pork belly and riblets and tripe mix. I haven't yet introduced a different meat or organ yet. As I said he gets runny poop usually the day of a run, but recovers usually by the next morning. This is not the case this time around.

 

It was easy to fast him, because he was not interested in ANY food. I even thought, hmm, maybe he wants kibble, but nope, no interest. I was able to give him a little rice and some yogurt (which has always worked on him in the past). I've never had D last this long on him though and still remain unchanged, and the whole meal that was thrown up really caught me off guard.

 

Last night he actually ate some bone and some tripe, didn't want to touch the pork belly or any egg. This morning he ate rice and yogurt again, he had some dehydrated liver and lung this morning as my "goodbye for the day treat" and drank some beef broth. I've actually never given him beef broth before so I'm interested to see how it will work out. He still has pretty liquid poop. He's on the verge of being picky while still being sick. He is fine in the house, wags his tail, walks up to us pretty much happy. He will eat food he likes and wants to eat, but won't touch the raw pork.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Fast fir 24 hours to let his system settle, then try a bit of something bland. You can give slippery elm bark (available at health or vitamin stores if you don't have it) to make him mire comfortable.

[Guest Desonia]

I also heard Clay Powder is a good natural way to slow down diarrhea ... but make sure he drinks a lot of water with that. We tried it with Marty and it worked.

Anyone else tried this?

[Guest Swifthounds]

Unless you know for certain that the cause of the diarrhea is something benign (like you fed too much fat) you do not want to slow down diarrhea and keep the offending patsies, bacteria, or irritant in the dog. Diarrhea is the body's defense against offending GI tract contents.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Swifthounds

[XTRAWLD]

So the boys had a LARGE turkey drum each on Tues night. Their poops are really really firm. I know there is a lot of bone in the turkey but the poops are still firm 2 days later. Anything I can give to help them out a bit? Does an increase in tripe help this?