Roger Is Licking His Feet Until They Bleed

[Batmom]

UnrulyHound, a given dog can be allergic to anything -- yours might be fine with fish oil, chicken, wheat, etc. but allergic to something else altogether. If you can find a food that has *very* different ingredients from what you are feeding, that is a good starting point, tho.

 

You can get treats that consist entirely of freeze-dried meat (same meat in the new food you're trying) -- sitstay.com has a pretty good selection. Pricey but worthwhile until you find out what the problem is.

[Guest TheUnrulyHound]

UnrulyHound, a given dog can be allergic to anything -- yours might be fine with fish oil, chicken, wheat, etc. but allergic to something else altogether. If you can find a food that has *very* different ingredients from what you are feeding, that is a good starting point, tho.

 

You can get treats that consist entirely of freeze-dried meat (same meat in the new food you're trying) -- sitstay.com has a pretty good selection. Pricey but worthwhile until you find out what the problem is.

Good Point on the food, I just figured I would try to eliminate the most common allergens.... I will be reading labels at the store for a while I predict Thankyou Batmom, you have always been a great help to me, your advice is very appreciated

[Guest Swifthounds]

I would nix the Murphy's Oil soap. A lot of people tout it as a "green" cleaner, but an equal number say the opposite. It does contain Cymbopogon nardus, which is a citronella oil and can be irritating to the lungs, skin, and and sensitive canine noses. A lot of people/dogs will not have a reaction to it, but some do. My Mom has asthma and I cannot use it around her. Since Roger's having reaction issues already, I wouldn't risk this adding to the irritation.

 

Prednisone, IMO is not something I would put a dog on, and especially a young dog, except as an absolute last resort. The advantage and disadvantage of it is that it's a corticolsteroid that suppresses immune function. That makes it helpful in controlling an immune overfunction, but also diminishes the body's ability to fight of illness and infection. Short term use will produce: renal disorder as well and increased thirst/hunger. It's also muscle-wasting. Use longer term can produce:digestive tract ulcers, pancreatic pain/inflammation, diabetes, muscle loss, and behavioral changes.

The most dangerous side effect that can appear while administering prednisone in higher doses is hyperadrenocorticism (aka Cushing’s disease).

 

If the pred is controlling the symptoms well it may be okay for now, but if it's not, I would nix it as well.

 

Re flax seed: I would eliminate this and/or replace it with an omega 3 source. Flaxseed is very high in Omega 6 and 9 - the omegas that cause inflammation of all sorts - and the same ones that are behind why folks supplement with omega 3s to get to the proper balance of omegas. About the only thing it will produce is a shiny coat, but that's really superficial, given that it causes skin irritation and joint/muscle inflammation.

 

I would try a high grade fish oil. I like Grizzly Salmon Oil. The important thing is the dosage of EPA/DHA. The maintenance dose is 300 mg per 30# of dog/day. You would want the theraputic dose of 300 mg per 10# of dog/day.

 

 

Re diet: I see that you make him a kibble of ground turkey, rice flour, powdered milk, safflower oil, ground flaxseed, and egg and give cooked chicken and brown rice which is ground in the food processor. I already commented on the flax seed. Have you thought about trying a raw diet? It's not as difficult as people think (certainly less work than you're already doing), has no grains or veggies to trigger irritation, and I've seen it work wonders with dogs that were tortured by skin irritation, ear infections, etc. In addition, even where an elimination diet has shown a dog allergic to a protein source (say, chicken), those dogs are often not reactive to the uncooked version.

[Guest Rogersmom]

What about a hydrolized diet? Z/d is the only food that is 100% hydrolized. It's a pre digested protein.

 

That might just work for him.

 

My Beau is a very sick dog with severe IBD and he is on pred and imuran to keep him from flaring. He did OK with the Royal Canin HP with higher levels of pred, but as soon as we dropped the pred, he started to flare as HP is not a hydrolized food.

 

In any case, I hope the HP works for Roger. It's suppossedly more palatable for them. If he starts to react from that, go to the Hills Science Diet, Z/D ULTRA. That's the one that's hydrolized.

 

I sympathize with you and for Roger.

I had Roger on a hydrolized protein diet. It had soy in it which did not say they soy was hydrolized. Given he is allergic to chicken, I am looking for something else. Roger did regrow the hair on his feet while on that diet but it may also have been a result of the outside allergens dying down.

 

I sure hope his new regimen helps his itching feet. Prayers for this diet change and treatment to help him be comfortable.

Ady Bea looks like Roger except Roger's ears do not fold they stick straight up.

[sweetdogs]

My boy Faolin had terrible ear infections for many years. I tried everything but put off doing the shots because I really didn't think they'd work. Guess what. He was allergic to a number of outside pollens but was highest for dustmites. Up went the carpet - in went the shots. I kept him on them for a couple of years but gradually stopped & his ears have been wonderful. I was able to do them at home so that kept the office visits to a minimum.

 

I did put Faolin on a raw diet very early in the process & while it helped him overall, it didn't help his ears. I still feed raw & love it, but his problem was environmental, not dietary. YMMV.

 

Best wishes for Roger.

[Guest Rogersmom]

WOW, I have just read thru all the pages of this thread and I am so sorry that it has been this hard to find out what was wrong.

 

I am having the same problem with my Stepper who chews and licks his feet. They are red and inflamed and have no fur in places at this point. I was waiting (per my vets recommendation) for cooler dry weather and a freeze to see if it cleared on its own. Nothing has changed even though we have had snow and ice recently. His feet are exactly the same. I am thinking I will be going thru the same things that you have. I have tried the genesis spray and it doesn't seem to help, I rinse his feet when he comes in but the moisture seems to make it worse. he is on 50 mgs of benadryl twice daily. I have tried what Burpdogs suggested about keeping the grass extra short, no help. I am now going to start changing his food. I feed Iams large breed and need to go see what the ingredients are and I think I will start excluding fish oil and chicken, poultry, corn, soy, wheat and eggs. So I guess I need a trip to the store.... the hardest thing will be not being able to give him treats with the rest of my hounds I think I would rather just not give ANYONE treats than exclude Stepper

 

Anyhow, I hope that whatever your vet is recommending now that they have discovered all his allergies is making him feel better. He is a beautiful boy! Good luck to you and him

My new vet put Roger on Royal Canin Hypoallergenic kibble. They also have treats to match. A bag of the treats cost $7.49. Roger could eat four bags a weeks. I also got him the canned food to go along with it. That cost $2.29 per can. I would give him about half a can with around two cups of kibble. Supposedly, even thought the ingredients were things he could be allergic to, the protein was hydrolized (or what ever) so that the body could not recognize it. Roger was on this food for about eight weeks when I did the allergy testing. The weather got cold and he seemed better. We have warmed up a bit this week and Roger is getting muddy. He is licking some now but not to the point of removing his hair. I also did a course of Douxo calming shampoo and spray. While doing this, I stopped the benedryl and all other meds. I think I am going to have to make Roger's food. I spent quite some time reading ingredients. Everything seems to have corn,chicken fat, soy, or potato protein. I emailed Natural Balance to see what kind of potato the potato protein in the food came from. It is white potatoes and Roger is allergic to white potatoes. Do you believe it? I never heard of anything being allergic to potatoes. Good luck to you. I am waiting to find out what the allergy shots are going to cost. I figure I need to do it as Roger is allergic to trees, grass, and dustmites. These are things which I can not eliminate from his world.

 

My boy Faolin had terrible ear infections for many years. I tried everything but put off doing the shots because I really didn't think they'd work. Guess what. He was allergic to a number of outside pollens but was highest for dustmites. Up went the carpet - in went the shots. I kept him on them for a couple of years but gradually stopped & his ears have been wonderful. I was able to do them at home so that kept the office visits to a minimum.

 

I did put Faolin on a raw diet very early in the process & while it helped him overall, it didn't help his ears. I still feed raw & love it, but his problem was environmental, not dietary. YMMV.

 

Best wishes for Roger.

How much do the shots cost? My vet was saying they would be made from Roger's blood. I was hoping that it would not require many shots to cure him.

 

I would nix the Murphy's Oil soap. A lot of people tout it as a "green" cleaner, but an equal number say the opposite. It does contain Cymbopogon nardus, which is a citronella oil and can be irritating to the lungs, skin, and and sensitive canine noses. A lot of people/dogs will not have a reaction to it, but some do. My Mom has asthma and I cannot use it around her. Since Roger's having reaction issues already, I wouldn't risk this adding to the irritation.

 

Prednisone, IMO is not something I would put a dog on, and especially a young dog, except as an absolute last resort. The advantage and disadvantage of it is that it's a corticolsteroid that suppresses immune function. That makes it helpful in controlling an immune overfunction, but also diminishes the body's ability to fight of illness and infection. Short term use will produce: renal disorder as well and increased thirst/hunger. It's also muscle-wasting. Use longer term can produce:digestive tract ulcers, pancreatic pain/inflammation, diabetes, muscle loss, and behavioral changes.

The most dangerous side effect that can appear while administering prednisone in higher doses is hyperadrenocorticism (aka Cushing’s disease).

 

If the pred is controlling the symptoms well it may be okay for now, but if it's not, I would nix it as well.

 

Re flax seed: I would eliminate this and/or replace it with an omega 3 source. Flaxseed is very high in Omega 6 and 9 - the omegas that cause inflammation of all sorts - and the same ones that are behind why folks supplement with omega 3s to get to the proper balance of omegas. About the only thing it will produce is a shiny coat, but that's really superficial, given that it causes skin irritation and joint/muscle inflammation.

 

I would try a high grade fish oil. I like Grizzly Salmon Oil. The important thing is the dosage of EPA/DHA. The maintenance dose is 300 mg per 30# of dog/day. You would want the theraputic dose of 300 mg per 10# of dog/day.

 

 

Re diet: I see that you make him a kibble of ground turkey, rice flour, powdered milk, safflower oil, ground flaxseed, and egg and give cooked chicken and brown rice which is ground in the food processor. I already commented on the flax seed. Have you thought about trying a raw diet? It's not as difficult as people think (certainly less work than you're already doing), has no grains or veggies to trigger irritation, and I've seen it work wonders with dogs that were tortured by skin irritation, ear infections, etc. In addition, even where an elimination diet has shown a dog allergic to a protein source (say, chicken), those dogs are often not reactive to the uncooked version.

I tried giving Roger some raw food. He looked at it and looked at me as if to say "Hey! Didn't you forget something?" I tried raw mackeral, raw chicken leg, and raw turkey neck. He would not eat any of it.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I tried giving Roger some raw food. He looked at it and looked at me as if to say "Hey! Didn't you forget something?" I tried raw mackeral, raw chicken leg, and raw turkey neck. He would not eat any of it.

 

That's not at all an uncommon reaction in an "only dog" and especially in one that wasn't raced (and therefore never saw raw food at the track. Dogs start on milk and then graduate to "foods" brought by their mother, and branch out from there. They learn what to eat from mom, and from slowly branching out. Roger's probably never seen raw food as "food" and has never seen another hound eating it (which would have given him the idea that it was food). Admittedly, it's much easier to switch to a raw diet if you have multiples. Guaranteed at least one hound will be a "foodie" and give it a try. Once others see a hound eating it, they're much more likely to want it.

[Batmom]

There's no difference in allergic reaction between raw food and cooked food. Physiologically not possible. Feeding raw saves you the trouble of cooking it, but it doesn't do anything for allergies.

[sweetdogs]

How much do the shots cost? My vet was saying they would be made from Roger's blood. I was hoping that it would not require many shots to cure him.

A bottle of serum cost about $100 but that would last us for a few months. The dosage & frequency starts out pretty high but then decreases rapidly. Giving them at home & cutting out an office visit made a big difference in expense. I think it took about a year for me to feel that he wasn't going to get any more ear problems. It was money well spent for him.

 

The serum was not made from Faolin's blood but was custom made for his particular allergens.

[Guest Rogersmom]

I tried giving Roger some raw food. He looked at it and looked at me as if to say "Hey! Didn't you forget something?" I tried raw mackeral, raw chicken leg, and raw turkey neck. He would not eat any of it.

 

That's not at all an uncommon reaction in an "only dog" and especially in one that wasn't raced (and therefore never saw raw food at the track. Dogs start on milk and then graduate to "foods" brought by their mother, and branch out from there. They learn what to eat from mom, and from slowly branching out. Roger's probably never seen raw food as "food" and has never seen another hound eating it (which would have given him the idea that it was food). Admittedly, it's much easier to switch to a raw diet if you have multiples. Guaranteed at least one hound will be a "foodie" and give it a try. Once others see a hound eating it, they're much more likely to want it.

Roger is funny about eating. If he does not eat his food, Magic will. It then appears that Roger considers it Magic's food and will not eat it.

 

How much do the shots cost? My vet was saying they would be made from Roger's blood. I was hoping that it would not require many shots to cure him.

A bottle of serum cost about $100 but that would last us for a few months. The dosage & frequency starts out pretty high but then decreases rapidly. Giving them at home & cutting out an office visit made a big difference in expense. I think it took about a year for me to feel that he wasn't going to get any more ear problems. It was money well spent for him.

 

The serum was not made from Faolin's blood but was custom made for his particular allergens.

I am ok with giving injections but I have never given one to a dog. I know Roger will cry. He is such a sissy. I just hope he will not jump and break the needle. Rats and I just gave some syringes to the ASPC that are subque. Well, we will see. I have not heard from the vet yet regarding the lab and what the injections will entail.