Roger Is Licking His Feet Until They Bleed

[Guest Rogersmom]

Roger, my 15 month old greyhound is licking his feet until the fur is gone and he causes them to bleed. We have been to the vet's twice concerning this and the problem just seems to worsen.

Here is what I tried:Oxy Med Itch Relief spray

Tea Tree Oil

Neosporine and cortesone lotions

We went to the vet's when he started to cause bleeding. At this time he was only licking the back paws. SheGave him a shot to build up antihistamine

Started him on 50 mg of benadryl twice a day

I got DermaPaw on the Internet (contains chamomile oil, lavender oil, cod liver oil, evening primrose oil, vitamin e, beeswax and petrolatum) applied it to his feet and covered his feet with socks.

Roger got worse. He started licking the front feet also.We went back to the vet's and saw a different doctor. She:

Said to eliminate wheat from his diet

Put him on Predisone 5mg, 1 1/2 tablets every 48 hours

Cephalexin 500 mg twice a day for 10 days.

She told me not to put anything on his feet as that kept them wet.

He is still getting worse even with stopping wheat since 9/17/09.I am now covering his feet with vet wrap to try and prevent licking. He is still taking the predisone. I give him benydrl at night time so he and I can sleep.

I also got a hydrocortisone medicated shampoo and gave him a bath, then applied the DermaPaw ointment, and covered all of his feet with vet wrap to prevent furhter licking and chewing on his feet.

 

I make Roger's food.I make him a kibble which contains ground turkey, rice flour, powdered milk, safflower oil, ground flaxseed, and egg

I mix this and bake it.

 

He also gets cooked chicken and brown rice which is ground in the food processor. Sometimes I use chicken liver or beef liver.

 

I also give him scrambled eggs, cottage cheese, cooked potatoes, and chopped canned peaches.

 

He gets a little of each at each feeding plus a canine vitamin, psyllium husks powder, yogurt, and pumpkin.

 

Roger often needs to have his anal gland squezed. He licks his penis with a vengenace and makes a snorting sound.

 

So, all you readers. Can you help? I have already spent over $200 on my puppy boy and he does not seem to get any better. I have tried to list everything that is going on in his life. I have eliminated wheat from his diet, stopped walking him outside of our yard. We have two new people living with us and also another greyhound. The licking did start after the first person joined our household. This person was walking Roger for three days when the licking started. Roger also had a trip to the kennel for a spa day prior to the beginning of the licking problem (I also took another dog to the kennel and she has not had a problem.)

 

So, I hope someone else had this problem and has a solution.

 

Thanks for reading and what ever you can offer to help.

[macoduck]

Do you know if the ground he walk on whether in your yard or out on walks is chemically treated in any way?

 

Do you have carpeted floors and if so, do you use a lot of solutions on it?

 

Could you muzzle him with a stool guard to prevent him from licking? It would give the wounds a chance to air out.

 

If the additions to your household might cause stress, maybe try using a DAP diffuser and/or Rescue Remedy.

Edited October 15, 2009 by macoduck

[kudzu]

Have you tried an elimination diet? If not & you think it might be allergies this may be a good idea. That means the fewer the ingredients the better. Speak with your vet if you haven't done this yet. The diet you list above has some wholesome ingredients but there are also a lot of ingredients so you would have a hard time knowing what may or may not be an allergen to your dog.

 

What about stress? I had a Spaniel mix who caused huge lick granulomas on her toes when she got stressed.

 

Just tossing out ideas. Hope you find something to help your boy.

[msjpk]

My Plummer has a ongoing infection in one back paw and one front paw. He is on antibiotics and the vet wants to perform a biopsy. Each day I put zinc cream on and cover with toddlers socks with duck tape. Keeps the socks on.

I change socks as soon as they get wet as the wetness will make things worse.

It is hard work trying to keep their feet healthy!!! Good luck, I hope they find the cause.

[CaliforniaGreys]

Wayne had food allergies and the first two things we cut out was chicken and corn and that did the trick for him.

 

He also has seasonal allergies but it's under control on a high dose of Benadryl.

I wonder if your boy has some type of contact allergy.

I hope you find the cause, good luck

[Guest scfilby]

Only more guesses, but are his pads OK?

 

I also think maybe stress, my parents had a spaniel that used to get stressed and lick his front paws until they bled..

[Batmom]

When did the problem start?

 

Is it just his feet, or does he pick at his behind, too, even when anal glands are expressed? If it's just his feet, have skin scrapings been done?

 

If skin scrapings have been done and nothing turned up, I would do a strict elimination diet. That'll at least rule out (or in) food allergies. By "strict elimination," I mean one protein, period, and NOTHING ELSE TO EAT AT ALL. Nothing (except heartworm meds and anything prescribed by vet such as pred, antibiotic, etc.). No supplements, no treats that are not 100% the protein, no "just a bite" of something ..... Some people find it easier to do ZD Ultra (prescription hypoallergenic food). Same rules apply. No other supplements, treats, bites of this or that, etc.

 

Usually you'll start to see results within @ 3 weeks on an elimination diet but sometimes it takes longer. In theory you want a novel protein. I cheated, used beef, and got lucky.

 

 

P.S. I suggest strict elimination because one of mine turned out to be allergic to fish/fish oil. Try finding a commercial dog food or skin-and-coat supplement without that! Same story. Itchy foot syndrome, $200+ at the vet looking for other causes.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Batmom

[greysmom]

He's getting the prednisone every other day??? If so, that's not an often enough dosage to do any good. Same with the Benadryl if you're trting to treat an allergy. He probably needs the pred every 8 hours or so - at least twice a day - and the Benadryl every 4-6 hours. He'll drink a lot and pee a lot so be aware of when he needs to go out.

 

If it is a food allergy it's going to take sme detective work to figure it out. I would start out by fasting him for 24 hours (he won't like it but he won't starve either) and then begin with only a bland diet - probably rice and boiled ground beef. Cut out all the extraneous foods and just feed that for at least a week. NO TREATS! If he gets better - voila! If he doesn't, switch the protein first, then the carb. He'll need to eat it for a while to see if he's going to react. You might also try Science Diet ZD Ultra or another non-allergenic commercial food.

 

greysmom

[Sambuca]

I agree with a strict elimination diet. I'm a pet sitter and all the dogs I know with food allergies the symptoms started with itchy feet.

 

Good luck and I hope he feels better soon.

[Guest Rogersmom]

Do you know if the ground he walk on whether in your yard or out on walks is chemically treated in any way?

 

Do you have carpeted floors and if so, do you use a lot of solutions on it?

 

Could you muzzle him with a stool guard to prevent him from licking? It would give the wounds a chance to air out.

 

If the additions to your household might cause stress, maybe try using a DAP diffuser and/or Rescue Remedy.

 

We do not use any chemicals in the lawn or house. I clean with Murphy's oil soap. I have very little carpet and that was only cleaned with Woolite when Roger was in training and only spot cleaning. I do not know if where he walked was treated with chemicals or not so I stopped his walks over a month ago.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Do you know if the ground he walk on whether in your yard or out on walks is chemically treated in any way?

 

Do you have carpeted floors and if so, do you use a lot of solutions on it?

 

Could you muzzle him with a stool guard to prevent him from licking? It would give the wounds a chance to air out.

 

If the additions to your household might cause stress, maybe try using a DAP diffuser and/or Rescue Remedy.

 

Thanks. I am working on the elimination diet. Roger is not really a food hound so I use a lot of things to try and get him to eat.

 

My Plummer has a ongoing infection in one back paw and one front paw. He is on antibiotics and the vet wants to perform a biopsy. Each day I put zinc cream on and cover with toddlers socks with duck tape. Keeps the socks on.

I change socks as soon as they get wet as the wetness will make things worse.

It is hard work trying to keep their feet healthy!!! Good luck, I hope they find the cause.

 

I have tried the socks and duct tape also. I know what you mean about trying to keep the socks dry. The duct tape left a residue on the socks which transfered to my washer. I switched to Johnson and Johnson Waterproof tape. The best is vet wrap. Roger's legs look like a mummy but it stays on.

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Wayne had food allergies and the first two things we cut out was chicken and corn and that did the trick for him.

 

He also has seasonal allergies but it's under control on a high dose of Benadryl.

I wonder if your boy has some type of contact allergy.

I hope you find the cause, good luck

 

 

I have never given Roger corn as that caused big problems with our last dog.

Benadryl makes Roger sleepy and I don't like to have him sedated all the time.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

He's getting the prednisone every other day??? If so, that's not an often enough dosage to do any good. Same with the Benadryl if you're trting to treat an allergy. He probably needs the pred every 8 hours or so - at least twice a day - and the Benadryl every 4-6 hours. He'll drink a lot and pee a lot so be aware of when he needs to go out.

 

If it is a food allergy it's going to take sme detective work to figure it out. I would start out by fasting him for 24 hours (he won't like it but he won't starve either) and then begin with only a bland diet - probably rice and boiled ground beef. Cut out all the extraneous foods and just feed that for at least a week. NO TREATS! If he gets better - voila! If he doesn't, switch the protein first, then the carb. He'll need to eat it for a while to see if he's going to react. You might also try Science Diet ZD Ultra or another non-allergenic commercial food.

 

greysmom

 

Thanks. It would not be hard to fast him for 24 hours. He often does that himself as he is not a food hound. I make his treats also and they are wheat free.

 

I am not vet. I am just giving him the medication mine prescribed. I am working on going to a different practise to see what else might be done. My vet is not in favor of homemade diets.

 

Only more guesses, but are his pads OK?

 

I also think maybe stress, my parents had a spaniel that used to get stressed and lick his front paws until they bled..

 

His pads are ok. He is starting to get a small spot at the back of both hind legs above his knee.

[Batmom]

You say above that you're working on an elimination diet. Something different from your first post? Because there, you're feeding him so many things. Any one of them could be causing a problem:

 

ground turkey, rice flour, powdered milk, safflower oil, ground flaxseed, and egg

.... cooked chicken and brown rice .... chicken liver or beef liver....scrambled eggs, cottage cheese, cooked potatoes, and chopped canned peaches..... a canine vitamin, psyllium husks powder, yogurt, and pumpkin.

 

As others have noted, some use an elimination diet consisting of one protein and one carb. I prefer to use just one protein; the dog doesn't need the carb and doesn't need vitamins etc. over the short term (3-6 months).

 

If this started after a spa day, it might be worth washing his feet just once with mild soap and water, rinsing very well, and drying. I would not cover the feet with anything, hard tho that might be. And I would urge getting skin scrapings from those feet if that hasn't been done yet.

 

[Burpdog]

Welcome to my world....

 

Where are you located? How high do you keep your grass?

 

Ask the vet for Genesis spray.

[Guest hlpnhounds]

Just be careful with the vet wrap---it can shrink up and get very tight if it gets wet. If you are using it as a band at the top of the sock just for keeping the sock on that should be fine butif using to cover the whole foot will not allow the area to dry out. I really like the idea of using the muzzle to prevent licking. If you need to, get a stool guard for the muzzle too.

 

Do you have a veterinary dermatologist near you ? I am always amazed at how many things are manifested in an animals skin and nail that are found by the dermatologist. For example, my first beagle was very prone to ear infections as many of them are. I was very good about cleaning his ears at least once a week and keeping on top of any problems as they would arise. Still, he would get the occasional ear infection. As he got older, the ear infections progressed to a chronic state----at one point it was so bad that after returning from a 10 hour shift in the morning, I nearly turned right around and made the 60 mile trip back to work to have him looked at by the neurologist becasue he had a severe head tilt and could not walk straight. I thought he'd had stroke. Turns out his ear drum had perf'd from a sudden and severe ear infection. He wound up having a TECA surgery to remove the ear canal. (Total Ear Canal Ablation)

 

A few years later, I thought we were going to have to ablate the other ear canal as his infections started again in the remaining canal. At this time, I was working as Lead Technician at a different veterinary hospital---this one had a dermatologist on staff. She took a look at him and prescribed a regimen of cleaning and meds that was quite labor intensive for the "average" owner--deep cleanings once a day involving warm water flushes and various drops, oils and oral meds every day (and some parts were several times a day) for 2 weeks. His ear cleared up and we never saw another ear infection from him again.

 

So----

That was just a long way of telling you that seeing a dermatologist is a really good way to get to the source of the problem. We all know that one of the first places our dogs show poor health is in their skin, coat and nails. What you are describing sounds to me like some sort of allergy that has possibly led into a chronic licking behavior. Also, sometimes there is a neurologic component----we've seen dogs go into a self-mutilation mode due to a constant "pins and needles" feeling in their toes or tail due to a nerve issue which can cause incessant licking, chewing and even chewing off of toes, tails and even worse. Best to find a good dermatologist to check out the situation if it persists. Hopefully you can find a hospital that has multiple specialties under one roof to make the traveling from one to the other easier.

 

It's not always about the food.

[MaryJane]

I have dealt with food allergy issues and what has usually worked (in my case) is moving away from poultry as the protein. I feed my own dog a home made diet with beef and fosters (with allergies) usually do OK on Natural Balance Venison and Sweet potato.

 

I agree with others that you may want to do an elimination diet - it takes a few weeks but you can get concrete answers on what food works for your dog.

 

 

[Guest KennelMom]

I second what Batmom said. I would start with her advice and go from there.

[Guest Greensleeves]

What Batmom said. For example, you've just listed at least SEVEN items that Flint is allergic to.

 

And I'd probably start with Z/D just to get the symptoms under control before switching to a novel protein, because the novel protein won't do you any good if you start with an ingredient he's allergic to (like beef). Every dog is different, and you really can't (or shouldn't, anyway) extrapolate from other dogs' experience. For instance, Flint does great on a food based on chicken and corn (he can't have rice), which are two "common" irritants.

 

I would ask your vet about Temaril-P, which is an antihistamine with a "booster" of prednisone. You start on a high "loading dose," then taper down when the symptoms have begun to subside. It's been our experience (and yours may vary) that Temaril is very good for feet itchies. We also switched from Benadryl to Hydroxizine, which is a similar antihistamine that more dogs tend to respond to (over the Benadryl). Also ask about Neo Pred-F powder, which is a wound treatment that might be better than the liquid stuff you're putting on him now.

 

The last thing I'm going to recommend is rinsing his feet off every time he comes inside, just to rinse off any allergens or irritants he might be picking up outside.

 

I think your boy has gotten into the habit of licking, and it can be really hard to break them of that! But if you get the real cause under control and the feet can heal, you'll be off to a good start.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Greensleeves

[ahicks51]

I think in the not-too-distant past, someone mentioned contact dermatitis due to grass.

[Burpdog]

That's what Isaac has (very bad) and Mizzy (very light). If the grass is cut short, he starts clearing up. This is his first year on grass (he is 10). Mizzy has been here two years and never been affected. It's very bad this year.

[Guest Rogersmom]

You say above that you're working on an elimination diet. Something different from your first post? Because there, you're feeding him so many things. Any one of them could be causing a problem:

 

ground turkey, rice flour, powdered milk, safflower oil, ground flaxseed, and egg

.... cooked chicken and brown rice .... chicken liver or beef liver....scrambled eggs, cottage cheese, cooked potatoes, and chopped canned peaches..... a canine vitamin, psyllium husks powder, yogurt, and pumpkin.

 

As others have noted, some use an elimination diet consisting of one protein and one carb. I prefer to use just one protein; the dog doesn't need the carb and doesn't need vitamins etc. over the short term (3-6 months).

 

If this started after a spa day, it might be worth washing his feet just once with mild soap and water, rinsing very well, and drying. I would not cover the feet with anything, hard tho that might be. And I would urge getting skin scrapings from those feet if that hasn't been done yet.

I have not had any skin scrappings done yet. I have eliminated wheat from his diet.

 

 

Welcome to my world....

 

Where are you located? How high do you keep your grass?

 

Ask the vet for Genesis spray.

 

We live in New Britain, PA which is Central Bucks County. My grass is cut regularly. It is not allowed to get very high in our boro.

 

What is Genesis spray?

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Liz and Roger

 

Just be careful with the vet wrap---it can shrink up and get very tight if it gets wet. If you are using it as a band at the top of the sock just for keeping the sock on that should be fine butif using to cover the whole foot will not allow the area to dry out. I really like the idea of using the muzzle to prevent licking. If you need to, get a stool guard for the muzzle too.

 

Do you have a veterinary dermatologist near you ? I am always amazed at how many things are manifested in an animals skin and nail that are found by the dermatologist. For example, my first beagle was very prone to ear infections as many of them are. I was very good about cleaning his ears at least once a week and keeping on top of any problems as they would arise. Still, he would get the occasional ear infection. As he got older, the ear infections progressed to a chronic state----at one point it was so bad that after returning from a 10 hour shift in the morning, I nearly turned right around and made the 60 mile trip back to work to have him looked at by the neurologist becasue he had a severe head tilt and could not walk straight. I thought he'd had stroke. Turns out his ear drum had perf'd from a sudden and severe ear infection. He wound up having a TECA surgery to remove the ear canal. (Total Ear Canal Ablation)

 

A few years later, I thought we were going to have to ablate the other ear canal as his infections started again in the remaining canal. At this time, I was working as Lead Technician at a different veterinary hospital---this one had a dermatologist on staff. She took a look at him and prescribed a regimen of cleaning and meds that was quite labor intensive for the "average" owner--deep cleanings once a day involving warm water flushes and various drops, oils and oral meds every day (and some parts were several times a day) for 2 weeks. His ear cleared up and we never saw another ear infection from him again.

 

So----

That was just a long way of telling you that seeing a dermatologist is a really good way to get to the source of the problem. We all know that one of the first places our dogs show poor health is in their skin, coat and nails. What you are describing sounds to me like some sort of allergy that has possibly led into a chronic licking behavior. Also, sometimes there is a neurologic component----we've seen dogs go into a self-mutilation mode due to a constant "pins and needles" feeling in their toes or tail due to a nerve issue which can cause incessant licking, chewing and even chewing off of toes, tails and even worse. Best to find a good dermatologist to check out the situation if it persists. Hopefully you can find a hospital that has multiple specialties under one roof to make the traveling from one to the other easier.

 

It's not always about the food.

 

Thanks Lori. Roger is busy licking away. I have his feet covered so when he licks he is not getting his skin but soon he licks the covering off. Poor puppy boy. I guess he is really itching. I know what this is like as I had eczema as a child and would scratch myself bloody when asleep. Fortunately, I out grew this.

[CaliforniaGreys]

What is Genesis spray?

 

I have it here for Wayne and it works great. It's Triamcinlolne Acetonide

[Guest Rogersmom]

What Batmom said. For example, you've just listed at least SEVEN items that Flint is allergic to.

 

And I'd probably start with Z/D just to get the symptoms under control before switching to a novel protein, because the novel protein won't do you any good if you start with an ingredient he's allergic to (like beef). Every dog is different, and you really can't (or shouldn't, anyway) extrapolate from other dogs' experience. For instance, Flint does great on a food based on chicken and corn (he can't have rice), which are two "common" irritants.

 

I would ask your vet about Temaril-P, which is an antihistamine with a "booster" of prednisone. You start on a high "loading dose," then taper down when the symptoms have begun to subside. It's been our experience (and yours may vary) that Temaril is very good for feet itchies. We also switched from Benadryl to Hydroxizine, which is a similar antihistamine that more dogs tend to respond to (over the Benadryl). Also ask about Neo Pred-F powder, which is a wound treatment that might be better than the liquid stuff you're putting on him now.

 

The last thing I'm going to recommend is rinsing his feet off every time he comes inside, just to rinse off any allergens or irritants he might be picking up outside.

 

I think your boy has gotten into the habit of licking, and it can be really hard to break them of that! But if you get the real cause under control and the feet can heal, you'll be off to a good start.

 

Thanks for your reply. I do wash Roger's feet off when he comes inside but I am not always home to do it. He seems to like having his feet washed off. I have also given him a bath with special shampoo. That lasted for about 10 hours and then he started to lick and chew again.

 

[greyhoundgang]

Food allergy.

Plain and simple.

 

Go to a raw diet. Eliminate all kibble, all processed treats.

Take him off all meds.

 

Use a holistic vet to help you. Get a second opinion. List of them here. or ask for references from other greyhound lovers.

 

Greyhound Gang has info.

Click on LEARN.

Click on Medical.

Click on FOOD.

 

Direct link

 

I also really like this link - Dogaware

 

If you must use kibble, I've found that Orijens - their Fish based - is one of the best kibbles out there.

There is a yahoo group - NaturallyGrey - of greyhound lovers who feed raw or home cooked meals, that are also a great help.

 

 

 

 

[Burpdog]

You have to get it at the vet. You should ask the vet about hitting the problem with pred every day for several days along with the Genesis spray, then going to every other day. Hopefully you can break the cycle.

 

I would cut a lot of the ingredients as Batmom suggests, especially milk, flaxseed and chicken products.

 

Try salmon or beef instead and see if it makes a difference. How are the inside of his ears? I'd try perhaps salmon & potatoes -- will he eat that? EVO 95% beef.

 

 

 

[Guest Rogersmom]

That's what Isaac has (very bad) and Mizzy (very light). If the grass is cut short, he starts clearing up. This is his first year on grass (he is 10). Mizzy has been here two years and never been affected. It's very bad this year.

 

Initially my vet thought his reaction was to rag weed and golden rod as his licking occured around the same time as her allergies kicked into high gear. She said that we have had an unusal season and many allergies are at their worst.

 

I hope a frost clears things up. I have a lot of time and money invested in the food that I feed Roger. I would hate to have wasted my time and money.

 

As bad as it sounds, I can not take Roger to the vet's until next week so I have been trying what I can do that does not cost any money.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Liz and Roger

 

 

What is Genesis spray?

 

I have it here for Wayne and it works great. It's Triamcinlolne Acetonide

 

Thanks. I was not sure if it was for dogs or grass. My vet does not take credit cards so it is cash only. Poor Roger has to wait until I get my unemployment check next week. He has exhausted my disposable income until then.

[CaliforniaGreys]

That's what Isaac has (very bad) and Mizzy (very light). If the grass is cut short, he starts clearing up. This is his first year on grass (he is 10). Mizzy has been here two years and never been affected. It's very bad this year.

 

Initially my vet thought his reaction was to rag weed and golden rod as his licking occured around the same time as her allergies kicked into high gear. She said that we have had an unusal season and many allergies are at their worst.

 

I hope a frost clears things up. I have a lot of time and money invested in the food that I feed Roger. I would hate to have wasted my time and money.

 

As bad as it sounds, I can not take Roger to the vet's until next week so I have been trying what I can do that does not cost any money.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Liz and Roger

 

 

What is Genesis spray?

 

I have it here for Wayne and it works great. It's Triamcinlolne Acetonide

 

Thanks. I was not sure if it was for dogs or grass. My vet does not take credit cards so it is cash only. Poor Roger has to wait until I get my unemployment check next week. He has exhausted my disposable income until then.

 

Oh, I am sorry, it's for the dog. It's a steroid topical. Great stuff. I wouldn't use it without your vet's approval, but if your vet tells you it's ok to try, email me and I'll send you a bottle. Email is cbudshome@aol.com. But please, get your vet's ok first