Dr. Doug Kidney And Liver Values?

[krissn333]

OK--If the vet is not sure if a UTI is present or not, and if the creatinine is higher than a UTI would be expected to make it go, would treating for a UTI with an antibiotic be the first course of action most vets would suggest or not?

 

I think ultimately we will get a second opinion from our old vet, who is now rather far away. But in the short term, does looking at urine protein ratio and redoing the bloodwork make sense? (Well, I know redoing the bloodwork makes sense, but what about the other?)

 

Yes, it would be the first course of action any vet I've ever seen would suggest. If, after a reasonable course of antibiotics, the creatinine is still as high as it is now, then it might bear some further looking into. IMO needing to pee more often and drinking more are signs of UTI or diabetes.

[MaryJane]

From my perspective, it makes sense to redo the bloodwork and to also do a urine culture (first morning speciman) to see if there is an infection. I'm not sure what you mean about doing an abdomen for the urine - that is probably not necessary as I suspect that you are talking about doing a catheter (putting a tube into the bladder). In some cases if not done properly, it can cause an infection.

 

 

[tbhounds]

Personally, before I got myself upset about numbers I would re-run the blood work and run a urine protein/creatinine ratio. I would have the vet obtain more urine via a cystocentesis (that's were they stick a needle directly into the bladder--don't worry it doesn't hurt) to run a urine culture (sterile sample). The test should be done on a first a.m. sample--that way the urine specific gravity will be more accurate (it checks to see the urine concentration--should be higher in the a.m. as your pup most likely didn't drink too much overnight). You want the urine to be concentrated--it shows the kidneys are doing their job-you would like it to be over 1.030

[Guest SusanP]

From my perspective, it makes sense to redo the bloodwork and to also do a urine culture (first morning speciman) to see if there is an infection. I'm not sure what you mean about doing an abdomen for the urine - that is probably not necessary as I suspect that you are talking about doing a catheter (putting a tube into the bladder). In some cases if not done properly, it can cause an infection.

 

I mean when they stick a needle through the tummy into the kidneys to withdraw urine. She said that would be the way to tell if he has a UTI.

[duncan41]

Personally, before I got myself upset about numbers I would re-run the blood work and run a urine protein/creatinine ratio. I would have the vet obtain more urine via a cystocentesis (that's were they stick a needle directly into the bladder--don't worry it doesn't hurt) to run a urine culture (sterile sample). The test should be done on a first a.m. sample--that way the urine specific gravity will be more accurate (it checks to see the urine concentration--should be higher in the a.m. as your pup most likely didn't drink too much overnight). You want the urine to be concentrated--it shows the kidneys are doing their job-you would like it to be over 1.030

 

This is the absolute BEST advice to start with. A diagnosis is paramount because if you start making changes, you could end up going in circles. And please read Dr. Stack's articles, print them out and take them with you to the Vet's office in order to start a dialogue, if you think it would be helpful. You have lots of support here - please update when you can.

 

[Guest SusanP]

That's what I'm going to do.

 

Now, I have one last question. I've been watching Doug like a hawk and paying attention to how often I fill the water bowl. He is *not* drinking an unusual amount of water. And the only indication I have he needs to pee more really is that he's asking to go out at night and is the first one to get up and ask to go out in the morning lately.

 

What does increased need to pee without drinking more liquids suggest?

[Batmom]

Could really be anything. Including that it's cold (or raining) and he doesn't want to stay out as long, so he has to go out more often.

 

Some good advice from tbhounds and others re tests.

 

The vet's antibiotics not being good for kidney dogs ... that's outright weird.

 

 

 

IF he were to have kidney disease: While it's true that early-stage kidney disease there isn't a need to restrict protein, the difficulty is in drawing a line as to what's early and what's not-so-early. At some point, you do need restricted protein because the kidneys can no longer clear protein waste products from the blood. And while it's true that restricting phosphorus is more important early on, unfortunately with protein you get phosphorus so you can't really restrict one without restricting the other. There are some meds that might help with this; IIRC gazehund might be a good resource for some info and questions to ask your vet.

 

Hugs and best luck!

[Guest SusanP]

OK, thanks everyone!