Vaccinations ? Necessary ?

[buddibear]

My greyhound group( as everyone else) is having extreme money problems. My question is; are all these vaccinations yearly neccesary? I understand the rabbies is important but are the rest? If people get polio.measles,or whatever,One time, plus busters why are animals doing this yearly?

[ahicks51]

Rabies, yes; the other ones depend upon several factors including the age of the animal, and to what threats they are exposed.

 

Check locally for vaccine clinics or "doc in a box" operations that will do it for cheap- including the county pound, humane society, etc.- anywhere that you can avoid the vet visit fee. Keep the paperwork, and have it added to your folder at the vet's.

 

Really, there's no reason they need a $45 vet visit fee on top of a $9 shot.

[ElizabethGPAPS]

I don't believe yearly vaccinations are necessary, even rabies. My Vet agrees. Every three years is fine, and I stopped vaccinating my dogs after age 9. I sometimes wonder if it's the reason why all of my hounds have lived to very old age (nearly 14, 15.5 and 14-and-counting) since there's nothing else different that I do other than the 3-year vaccination protocol.

[Burpdog]

I have not seen the guidelines updated since 2006. I believe, as many others, we are over vaccinating.

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showtopic=128246&hl=

[Guest EmilyAnne]

There is no benefit to vaccinating yearly. Every 3 years is plenty sufficient.

[Guest tammymacb]

This year, with Hannah at 10 years old, I've decided to stop vaccinations. She's had them every year, all of her life. I'll do a 3 years rabies, since it's a legal issue not to have one. Between her age, her corns, her SLO and the fact that she's not terribly spry, she no longer visits the dog park. She has her own yard with a 6 foot privacy fence and her playmates are her pack. She is also never kenneled.

 

So, I'm hoping that a quick in and out rabies vaccine will keep her stress levels down so she doesn't lose all her nails which is what usually happens after her annual check up.

[gazehund]

My dogs get rabies every 3 years as required by NY law and that is it. They are not exposed to fosters coming through our home, they are never boarded, we don't go to dog parks. We go to greyhound events very occasionally. I don't see the need.

[Guest Energy11]

I do not do yearly vaccinations.

 

Mine range in age from 7-9, and when we moved here to GA, they all got 3 yr Rabies, and I do the Bordetalla once a year (nasal). That is ALL I do.

 

I do not board them. I do not do meet and greet anymore, and I do not go where others dogs have been (knowingly).

 

I think every three years is fine, and after a certain age (seniors) you don't need anything but Rabies, and maybe the Bord, if you are going to be around other dogs, especially in a kennel situation.

 

Good Luck!

[Guest Greytluv]

I never have done yearly vaccinations. With any of our dogs. Just three yr. rabies.

[Guest hlpnhounds]

I agree that many animals are overvaccinated. Many vet clinics have gone to a 3 yr protocol for vaccines and, for many dogs, this is sufficient. However, there are other things the dogs should be seen for on a yearly basis---routine bloodwork, and fecals for example. Dogs that spend a lot of time around unknown dogs---like mine that go up to the kennel frequently for fun run days or that have foster dogs through the house frequently, or that participate in frequent M&G's, should be vaccinated against Bordatella on a annual and in some cases a semi-annual basis (every 6 months). Those that are exposed to wooded areas or go to parks and ponds on a regular basis should be vaccinated against Leptospirosis. I'll take my chances with distemper and Parvo......bordatella is not something I want coming into my house and Lepto is a zoonotic disease (meaning that it can be transmitted to US from the dogs through urine) and intestinal parasites can also affect us although it manifests differently in humans than in animals. Think about that the next time you are cleaning up that "accident" from the carpeting or tile with a cut on your hand and no gloves or your dog has an accident in it's crate and stands up wagging it tail excitedly and splashes you with it----disgusting, I know but it happens. I worry that people take the "we shouldn't vaccinate yearly" stand and then don't develop a good working relationship with a veterinarian as a result. A good veterinarian should be able to work with you and explain the pros and cons regarding vaccinating and not. With the exception of a rabies vaccine of some sort in most areas, you are not required to have your pet vaccinated against anything.

 

Back to the OP.....

When dealing with adoptables....annual Heartworm and fecal testing is necessary but can be done at the same time as their spay or neuter. Rabies vaccines are likely to have been done through the track and, if they have never been done, it is recommended that the first vaccination be a 1 year vax but that it can be a 3 yr vax after that. It really just depends upon what is legally required in your area.

[brandimom]

I don't vaccinate my three as they never go to a dog park and I do not kennel/board them. I do the rabies every three years. If I felt I needed to vaccinate them I would have my vet do a titer first to see how much vaccine is still in the system. If you needed to board them they should accept the written document from your vet on the titer report.

[MerlinsMum]

OMG! What an eye opener! I have been vaccinating mine since day one - rabies, distemper and kennel cough. Between that and the fact that they are tested for Lyme once a year and are de-wormed, it's costing a fortune.

 

I don't have a choice about kennel cough and rabies, because I run a greyhound playgroup and I have made those vaccinations mandatory. But I am wondering if I can skip the rest...

 

Don't mean to hijack, but is de-worming and testing for Lyme something that might be avoided on a yearly basis? What about distemper? I need to know soon because I have to call the vet back to make an appointment. Money is so tight right now and I need to cut out any unnecessary expenses, on the other hand I don't want to risk the hounds getting anything bad...

[greytluck]

Those that are exposed to wooded areas or go to parks and ponds on a regular basis should be vaccinated against Leptospirosis. I'll take my chances with distemper and Parvo......bordatella is not something I want coming into my house and Lepto is a zoonotic disease (meaning that it can be transmitted to US from the dogs through urine) and intestinal parasites can also affect us although it manifests differently in humans than in animals. Think about that the next time you are cleaning up that "accident" from the carpeting or tile with a cut on your hand and no gloves or your dog has an accident in it's crate and stands up wagging it tail excitedly and splashes you with it----disgusting,

 

 

Dogs don't need to go in to wooded areas of ponds to get lepto, believe me I know.

 

My vet suggested the lepto vaccine to me, I read the pamphlet but figured it didn't really apply to my dog as he is almost solely walked on sidewalks in the city and never off leash. I turned it down. Then last November Hobbes went off his food and became lethargic. I rushed him to the vets where he spent the next 7 days on IV. The infection in his kidneys was so bad that we thought we were going to lose him. Thankfully he pulled through but he does have permanent mild kidney damage because of it. The recovery time was months (literally) and when all was said and done we spent close to $4000 to treat it. The vet wasn't 100% sure what she was dealing with at first but a titer test confirmed he did in fact have lepto. He wasn't in the high risk category and the diagnosis kind of through everyone for a loop.

 

After doing much research on it I've come to find out leptospirosis can live in any wet environment including puddles or wet ground ( like it was last fall). Any area where there are raccoons, skunks or other wildlife there is a potential for it. Lepto is shed in the urine of an infected animal and all it takes is a small break in the skin to catch it. Given the fact that greyhounds have such thin skin and little hair on their feet it actually makes them quite susceptible.

 

All my dogs will get the lepto vaccine from now on. I'm just sorry Hobbes had to suffer for me to learn my lesson.

[Batmom]

We get annual lepto, annual (or slightly more often) bordetella, and every 3 years for everything else.

 

greytluck is right on re lepto. Any protection you can get is better than none it all. Lepto is often pegged as the vaccine that dogs tend to react badly to, but my "vaccine reacter" doesn't have a problem with that one. 'Course all dogs are different and YMMV.

 

I don't think you want to stop vaccinating altogether. There is plenty of documentation to support the 3-year protocol. Not vaccinating at all, except for rabies? I personally would be concerned about an adoption group that did that -- I'd expect to adopt a dog who was up to date according to generally accepted veterinary standards.

[CaliforniaGreys]

My dogs get rabies every 3 years as required by NY law and that is it. They are not exposed to fosters coming through our home, they are never boarded, we don't go to dog parks. We go to greyhound events very occasionally. I don't see the need.

 

Same here

[Guest SoulsMom]

Kerry, I've had Archie for 13 years and he's had four different vets. He's never been dewormed and tested for Lyme on a yearly basis. The vets and I talk and discuss which options would be best in any given situation.

 

As for Soul . . . given his autoimmune disorder, Dr S and I decided last year to stop all shots except rabies. Archie will no longer be getting them either.

[cleptogrey]

i have nursed a dog thru parvo(it was a miracle he survived) and rescued a dog who had distemper(she was a miracle all together and lived a long long life)....vaccines in this house for my dogs. thanks for sharing the lepto info w/ everyone. the pup may be sore after the lepto vaccine, but obviously it is well worth it.

 

for those of you who are suffering financially, there are plenty of free or low cost clinics out there. the cost of repair, physically, financially and emotionally is far greater than the cost of the vaccine, unless you are morally against the "evils" of meds. it's the same controversy with children and their required vaccinations.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

^^^ I have seen dogs go through Parvo too. A horrible disease! Our dogs dont have to actually come in contact with another infected dog in order to get parvo. Simply coming into contact with the stool of an infected dog while out on a walk is all it takes. Highly contagious. While I would vaccinate for Parvo, I still wouldnt do it yearly though. (refer to my previous post in this thread)

Edited October 2, 2009 by EmilyAnne

[MerlinsMum]

Those that are exposed to wooded areas or go to parks and ponds on a regular basis should be vaccinated against Leptospirosis. I'll take my chances with distemper and Parvo......bordatella is not something I want coming into my house and Lepto is a zoonotic disease (meaning that it can be transmitted to US from the dogs through urine) and intestinal parasites can also affect us although it manifests differently in humans than in animals. Think about that the next time you are cleaning up that "accident" from the carpeting or tile with a cut on your hand and no gloves or your dog has an accident in it's crate and stands up wagging it tail excitedly and splashes you with it----disgusting,

 

 

Dogs don't need to go in to wooded areas of ponds to get lepto, believe me I know.

 

My vet suggested the lepto vaccine to me, I read the pamphlet but figured it didn't really apply to my dog as he is almost solely walked on sidewalks in the city and never off leash. I turned it down. Then last November Hobbes went off his food and became lethargic. I rushed him to the vets where he spent the next 7 days on IV. The infection in his kidneys was so bad that we thought we were going to lose him. Thankfully he pulled through but he does have permanent mild kidney damage because of it. The recovery time was months (literally) and when all was said and done we spent close to $4000 to treat it. The vet wasn't 100% sure what she was dealing with at first but a titer test confirmed he did in fact have lepto. He wasn't in the high risk category and the diagnosis kind of through everyone for a loop.

 

After doing much research on it I've come to find out leptospirosis can live in any wet environment including puddles or wet ground ( like it was last fall). Any area where there are raccoons, skunks or other wildlife there is a potential for it. Lepto is shed in the urine of an infected animal and all it takes is a small break in the skin to catch it. Given the fact that greyhounds have such thin skin and little hair on their feet it actually makes them quite susceptible.

 

All my dogs will get the lepto vaccine from now on. I'm just sorry Hobbes had to suffer for me to learn my lesson.

 

OMG

 

Thank you for sharing this... I am going to the vt next week for shots and I am going to ask about the lepto vaccine. I have refused it until now. I think I might do without the deworming and Lyme tests every year to save money, but I am going to keep vaccinating. I figure it's going to cost a lot less to vaccinate than to treat if something should happen to them... and more importantly my pups will stay comfortable.

 

One question - are there any known down sides to the leptospirosis vaccine? Bad side effects, that kind of thing?

 

[Guest Bean_Scotch]

I give Rabies every 3 years and I stopped giving the other vaccines since my hounds are turning 9 this year. There's never been an reactions/issues with them!

[MerlinsMum]

Hmm. Not so sure. I just found this:

 

Lepto vaccines are not recommended unless there is a disease problem in the area. The vaccines help lessen the severity of the disease but do not prevent it (3) and may not be effective for more than six months. Furthermore, puppies and small dogs can have adverse reactions to the vaccines. Therefore, many veterinarians do not recommend inoculation against leptospirosis. However, if a lepto outbreak occurs and veterinarians do recommend vaccination, dogs should be inoculated against all four strains of the disease unless the particular strain is identified.

 

And:

 

Current Issues Relating to Leptospirosis and Vaccination

 

Annual Revaccination and Leptospirosis

 

Current concerns in canine immunology have addressed issues related to overuse of vaccines in dogs and cats. General consensus among specialists in the field is that yearly vaccination against viral infections associated with canine distemper virus, canine parvovirus and canine adenovirus are generally unnecessary since active immunity induced by these vaccines provide at least several years of protection. This consensus, however, does not apply and should not be generalized to bacterin vaccines, which immunize against diseases associated with bacterial organisms. In fact, clinical evidence suggests that bacterin-derived vaccines including those which protect against Bordetella bronchiseptica (kennel cough), Leptospira (Leptospirosis), and Borrelia burgdoferi (Lyme disease) probably don't even provide protective immunity for 12 months suggesting that more frequent vaccination for these diseases are required. It is perhaps the common use of combination (all-in-one) vaccines containing bacterins, which immunize against bacterial infections such as Leptospirosis and/or kennel cough in addition to common viral infections, that gave rise to the practice of frequent vaccine administration. Indeed the incorrect generalization of long-term immunity, associated with vaccination against viral immunogens, to bacterin-based vaccines may lead to a decrease in annual vaccination for bacterial-based diseases and subsequently give rise to a resurgence of outbreaks of bacterial disease in the coming years. In light of this, annual re-boostering against bacterial diseases should continue despite discontinuation of yearly vaccination against viral diseases.

 

 

The Current Leptospirosis Vaccine

 

Recent serological studies on wildlife and domestic dogs suggests that L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona have replaced L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola as the prevalent serovars responsible for Leptospirosis in the United States today. As such, current commercial vaccines, which protect against the formerly prevalent serovars, would not be effective at providing immunity against Leptospirosis caused by L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona. For this reason, there has been some conjecture that current commercial vaccines should be considered obsolete for protecting against Leptospirosis. There are several factors that should be considered prior to drawing this conclusion. First, Leptospirosis vaccines, as mentioned above, protect against clinical disease but do not prevent subclinical infection to a "carrier" state. That is, a dog that is annually vaccinated may harbor infectious organisms of L. icterohaemorrhagiae or L. canicola which will pose a risk of contagion to dogs that are not vaccinated or in which vaccination for these serovars has been discontinued. Without serological testing, low clinical incidence of these formerly prevalent serovars may be a result of the currently large population of vaccinated dogs. If this is the case, discontinuing administration of the current Leptospirosis vaccine may result in a resurgence of clinical disease. Furthermore, it is important to note that samples from these studies are not necessarily representative of all regions of the US.

 

When all the facts are considered, these findings do not necessarily suggest that L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola no longer pose a threat to dogs. Rather, this information should be taken into consideration when determining potential risk of infection in dogs that may be candidates for side effects associated with vaccine-reaction. Leptospirosis-containing vaccines are associated with a higher risk for side effects, particularly, anaphylactic reactions (see Canine Anaphylaxis). Taken together, benefits of vaccinating dogs, who live in areas where icterohaemorrhagiae and canicola incidence is low and who may have a higher predisposition for vaccine side effects with current Leptospirosis inoculants (see Vaccines, Infectious Diseases and the Canine Immune System), may not outweigh risks of vaccine reaction.

 

New Leptospirosis Vaccine Immunizes Against L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona

 

Fort Dodge now offers the Duramune Leptospirosis vaccine that immunizes against L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona serovars as well as L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola . This vaccine has been formulated through the new subunit technology that uses only the antigen component of the organism (that will produce an immune response) instead of the entire organism. As such, subunit vaccines greatly reduce vaccine side-effects that occur with higher incidence with bacterin-based vaccines while providing durable protection from the disease.

[Guest simile]

We're on a three year protocol here in Fairbanks, and I get all my hounds vaccinated on schedule. I take them a lot of places, and they do a lot of doggy stuff that requires current vaccinations. We also have a problem with parvo coming in from the villages (vet care is almost non-existent out there). Besides all that, I always keep in mind that an emergency could happen requiring me to leave the State and I wouldn't necessarily have time to find a pet sitter. I'd have to board the pups and I don't know of any boarding kennel here locally that will take animals without current vaccinations.

[greytluck]

Hmm. Not so sure. I just found this:

 

Lepto vaccines are not recommended unless there is a disease problem in the area. The vaccines help lessen the severity of the disease but do not prevent it (3) and may not be effective for more than six months. Furthermore, puppies and small dogs can have adverse reactions to the vaccines. Therefore, many veterinarians do not recommend inoculation against leptospirosis. However, if a lepto outbreak occurs and veterinarians do recommend vaccination, dogs should be inoculated against all four strains of the disease unless the particular strain is identified.

 

And:

 

Current Issues Relating to Leptospirosis and Vaccination

 

Annual Revaccination and Leptospirosis

 

Current concerns in canine immunology have addressed issues related to overuse of vaccines in dogs and cats. General consensus among specialists in the field is that yearly vaccination against viral infections associated with canine distemper virus, canine parvovirus and canine adenovirus are generally unnecessary since active immunity induced by these vaccines provide at least several years of protection. This consensus, however, does not apply and should not be generalized to bacterin vaccines, which immunize against diseases associated with bacterial organisms. In fact, clinical evidence suggests that bacterin-derived vaccines including those which protect against Bordetella bronchiseptica (kennel cough), Leptospira (Leptospirosis), and Borrelia burgdoferi (Lyme disease) probably don't even provide protective immunity for 12 months suggesting that more frequent vaccination for these diseases are required. It is perhaps the common use of combination (all-in-one) vaccines containing bacterins, which immunize against bacterial infections such as Leptospirosis and/or kennel cough in addition to common viral infections, that gave rise to the practice of frequent vaccine administration. Indeed the incorrect generalization of long-term immunity, associated with vaccination against viral immunogens, to bacterin-based vaccines may lead to a decrease in annual vaccination for bacterial-based diseases and subsequently give rise to a resurgence of outbreaks of bacterial disease in the coming years. In light of this, annual re-boostering against bacterial diseases should continue despite discontinuation of yearly vaccination against viral diseases.

 

 

The Current Leptospirosis Vaccine

 

Recent serological studies on wildlife and domestic dogs suggests that L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona have replaced L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola as the prevalent serovars responsible for Leptospirosis in the United States today. As such, current commercial vaccines, which protect against the formerly prevalent serovars, would not be effective at providing immunity against Leptospirosis caused by L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona. For this reason, there has been some conjecture that current commercial vaccines should be considered obsolete for protecting against Leptospirosis. There are several factors that should be considered prior to drawing this conclusion. First, Leptospirosis vaccines, as mentioned above, protect against clinical disease but do not prevent subclinical infection to a "carrier" state. That is, a dog that is annually vaccinated may harbor infectious organisms of L. icterohaemorrhagiae or L. canicola which will pose a risk of contagion to dogs that are not vaccinated or in which vaccination for these serovars has been discontinued. Without serological testing, low clinical incidence of these formerly prevalent serovars may be a result of the currently large population of vaccinated dogs. If this is the case, discontinuing administration of the current Leptospirosis vaccine may result in a resurgence of clinical disease. Furthermore, it is important to note that samples from these studies are not necessarily representative of all regions of the US.

 

When all the facts are considered, these findings do not necessarily suggest that L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola no longer pose a threat to dogs. Rather, this information should be taken into consideration when determining potential risk of infection in dogs that may be candidates for side effects associated with vaccine-reaction. Leptospirosis-containing vaccines are associated with a higher risk for side effects, particularly, anaphylactic reactions (see Canine Anaphylaxis). Taken together, benefits of vaccinating dogs, who live in areas where icterohaemorrhagiae and canicola incidence is low and who may have a higher predisposition for vaccine side effects with current Leptospirosis inoculants (see Vaccines, Infectious Diseases and the Canine Immune System), may not outweigh risks of vaccine reaction.

 

New Leptospirosis Vaccine Immunizes Against L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona

 

Fort Dodge now offers the Duramune Leptospirosis vaccine that immunizes against L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona serovars as well as L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola . This vaccine has been formulated through the new subunit technology that uses only the antigen component of the organism (that will produce an immune response) instead of the entire organism. As such, subunit vaccines greatly reduce vaccine side-effects that occur with higher incidence with bacterin-based vaccines while providing durable protection from the disease.

 

In my case my vet had not seen a case of lepto in the 5 years she has practiced at the clinic but there is always a first for everything. A very wet spring, summer and fall greatly increased the risk the particular year Hobbes became sick. Hobbes was the first case they saw in the clinic but the same week a yorkie became infected and then a chocolate lab about a week later. Lepto doesn't survive in dry conditions or in freezing temperatures so our vet suggest vaccinating in the spring which will cover them until the end of the fall (6 months). With the freezing winters in our area the risk of infection is low during those months so vaccination is not necessary. Hobbes had the Pomona strain which at the time was one of the strains covered by the vaccine they use. There are literally hundreds of different strains of lepto but the 5 most commonly seen ones are in the vaccines they use today.

 

If anyone is interested, here is the threads from when he got sick. Thread 1, Thread 2, Thread 3 This is just up until he finally came home but he was still a very sick boy for some time after that. In the end he was on antibiotics for close to 2 months and still today 1 year later he has lasting effects of the disease.

 

Sorry about going on and on about it but after that experience I tell everyone I know to vaccinate for it. Both Hobbes and Wally got the vaccines this spring (2 shots one month apart). Neither of them had any sort of reaction at all from the shots. Everyone can make up there own mind as to whether they will vaccinate for lepto or not, but for me it's a no brainer. I had tremendous guilt after I found out that a $20 vaccine could have saved Hobbes all that agony, all I can say is never again.

 

[Guest SoulsMom]

Kerry, do you want me to call Dr S and ask him about the lepto vacc for you? I'd be happy to do that because you are my good, good friend

[Guest TeddysMom]

I do 3 year rabies and anual shots until age 6, if I know the dogs shot history, then I stop everything except rabies. The Lepto was never recommended in FL for the area we lived but once we moved here the vets all recommend it so mine will all be getting it. Except for Rabies, whatever shots the dogs get, I give myself. With my pack, it saves me a fortune. I usually order from Omaha Vet Supply or Valley Vet Supply.