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Guest Fasave
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I have a very sick pup. He has PLN/PLE/IBD. Two weeks ago he ended up at the e-vets with a suspected tooth infection. It appears the antibiotics for the infection put him into a tail spin. His abdomen is full of fluid. At first they thought is was from a kidney infection. It appears it's more likely due to his IBD/PLE or vasculitis. He's on all kinds of drugs and an appetite stimulant but he's refusing to eat his meals regardless how I prepare them (baked, broiled, boiled, etc). All he wants are these rice & chicken treats that are 52% protein and he needs lower protein for the kidneys which are already being taxed by the steroids. He's been through all kinds of tests (x-rays, ultrasounds, etc) and they can't find anything that points to a terminal condition like cancer, but definitely chronic. I have home cooked for him for the last eight months under the supervision of a nutritionalist and he did really well. I feel like it I could just get him back eating, I might have some chance. He was scheduled for a dental but it had to be canceled due to his current condition.

 

His stools are completely liquid at this time but they are 10 -12 hours apart. My thinking is if I could get some fiber in him, it might help absorb some of the fluid. As anyone ever had experience with fiber supplements.

 

I'm running out of time with his guy. He'll be 10 in December so he's old but not that old. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

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Guest SoulsMom

Has the vet not recommend a prescription diet for him? When Soul was having intestinal bleeding that's the first thing my vet did, switch him to a prescription diet. In fact, that is ALL Soul can eat, or he starts bleeding again.

 

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I have a dog who almost died at the age of 4 from severe IBD. After $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ of tests and finally an open abdominal exploratory surgery, the diagnosis was confirmed.

 

Beside being put on 50mg of pred and 50 mg of imuran 3 weeks later, the very first thing we did was put him on Z/D. THere are 3 foods designated for IBD dogs. Z/D, HP and HA.

 

Is there any reason the vet has not put him on any of these? Z/D is the only one which also has a wet one as far as I know and when the dog's stomach is upset, kibble may be too rough on it.

 

Chicken and rice are usually the first things they elimate from an IBD dog.

 

If you have not seem an Internal Medicine Vet, I suggest that you see one ASAP. Many vets don't know IBD and how to treat it.

Edited by RobinM

 

 

ROBIN ~ Mom to: Beau Think It Aint, Chloe JC Allthewayhome, Teddy ICU Drunk Sailor, Elsie N Fracine , Ollie RG's Travertine, Ponch A's Jupiter~ Yoshi, Zoobie & Belle, the kitties.

Waiting at the bridge Angel Polli Bohemian Ocean , Rocky, Blue,Sasha & Zoobie & Bobbi

Greyhound Angels Adoption (GAA) The Lexus Project

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Thanks everyone. I have a whole team of IM docs at Angell Memorial Veterinary Hospital in Boston, MA working with him. His IBD was diagnosed by endoscope and yes, I can't even mention the $$$ spent to date and that total continues to grow. We tried the z/d food and it went straight through him which is why I ended up with a nutritionalist. His suspected allergies are beef and turkey to date, although we haven't branched out too far. The nutritionalist is part of the IM doc team and they communicate with each other. Everyone is sort of at a loss at this point. His home cooked diet includes calcium, fatty acid and vitamin supplements.

 

Soul's Mom, which prescription diet do you have Soul on?

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Guest SoulsMom

He's on the Hill's I/D. As long as he's on that he's fine. Anything else and he starts bleeding again. I also tried cooking for him, using a recipe from a nutritionist at Angell. After three days on that he started throwing it up :(

 

Soul hasn't been dxd for sure with IBD, but after three bouts of internal bleeding, my vet is pretty sure that's what is going on. . . .we could scope him to find out for sure, but at this point see no need since does fine as long as he's on the I/D and I/D ONLY. He has also had an ultrasound that showed nothing unusual . . . .

Edited by SoulsMom
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My heart goes out to you and your pup.

 

You will of course want to consult with your vets and nutritionalist because some IBS/IBD is fiber-responsive, and some is not (in which case you'd want a low-residue diet).

 

For fiber-responsive, the things that firm stools best here are -1- cooked, pureed peas (not the dried ones -- think frozen or canned green peas), and -2- metamucil wafers. I don't know why the wafers work better than the powdered stuff, but they do. I give @ 2 tablespoons pureed peas twice a day, or half a wafer twice a day.

 

For low-residue, we usually go with I/D canned or else homeprepped egg or whatever meat the dog can have (beef, fish, etc.).

 

Sending prayers that your pup improves.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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My heart goes out to you and your pup.

 

You will of course want to consult with your vets and nutritionalist because some IBS/IBD is fiber-responsive, and some is not (in which case you'd want a low-residue diet).

 

For fiber-responsive, the things that firm stools best here are -1- cooked, pureed peas (not the dried ones -- think frozen or canned green peas), and -2- metamucil wafers. I don't know why the wafers work better than the powdered stuff, but they do. I give @ 2 tablespoons pureed peas twice a day, or half a wafer twice a day.

 

For low-residue, we usually go with I/D canned or else homeprepped egg or whatever meat the dog can have (beef, fish, etc.).

 

Sending prayers that your pup improves.

 

 

Great advise. I have been dealing with his issues for a year and a half. Interestingly enough, the symptoms first presented themselves as neurological. Turns out that initially they thought it was bad cramping caused by colitis, therefore, low-residue diet is probably not the best for him. Of course we have the kidney issue in there further complicating matters because of the potential damage from steroids and high protein diets. I have a follow-up appointment tomorrow morning so I will run this information past the IM doc.

 

Thanks everyone!

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I've found that holistic vets are best prepared to deal with these issues.

Find one near you. AHVMA

I've found that putting hounds on all these meds just make it worse.

It would not hurt to get a second opinion from a holistic vet.

 

An aside: I had a dog I spent over $4000 on at traditional vet. They sent him home with cancer meds (he did not have cancer) and an idiopathic diagnosis. $200 later at a holistic vet, he was cured. All medicines and knowledge has its place. I've found that holistic help can really affect a positive change in some cases. IBD is one of those cases.

 

 

Raw or home cooked food.

Herbs to soothe the intestinal tract/reduce inflammation - slippery elm (boil is and make a gel. put with honey - will definitely soothe the intestinal tract) and others

Limit the stress - get the dog home, and not in a cage in a vet's office

Digestive Enzymes

Rest.

 

Hound is saying he wants high protein. High, good proteins are NOT bad for greyhounds.

 

Info on Greyhound Gang's Site.

Medical - Diarrhea

 

More info on the internet. Here's info from Lew Olson.

 

Hope something here helps, and your hound finds relief soon.

He is lucky to be so well loved by you.

 

Claudia & Greyhound Gang

Claudia & Greyhound Gang
100% Helps Hounds

GIG Bound!

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Here's a stab in the dark. One of the remedies offered up for a panoply of autoimmune disorders- including IBD in humans- is naltrexone, which is an opioid antagonist. This is to say, at high doses the stuff is used to keep junkies from getting their high. But- at very low doses, when timed correctly- the stuff has startling impact on autoimmune diseases.

 

The downside is that first off, you'd need a vet familiar with the stuff, or willing to give it a shot. Secondly, you'd need a compounding pharmacy to make it- although the stuff has gained markedly in popularity just in recent years, so it's not hard to find.

 

It's off-patent, and virtually without side-effects at the doses used for this sort of thing. Interesting stuff with some curious properties.

Coco (Maze Cocodrillo)

Minerva (Kid's Snipper)

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Our IBD dog developed his problem after receiving clindamycin after a dental, a drug which can both cause and cure bacterial imbalances of the intestines. For some reason, testing the poop for germs rather than for parasites is not something vets think of quickly. I had to insist! After we got the Clostridium excess we found under control, we've been able to address the IBD and, after much ado, he's doing well. So if he hasn't had his poop tested for germs, I'd strongly suggest it.

 

Glutamine is an amino acid that holistic vets and even our internist recommend for helping firm up poop. Easy to find OTC. They also recommend the herb rehmannia for kidney problems. I'd second the idea of finding a holistic vet to consult.

 

Our thoughts and prayers are with you. These are tough problems that take a lot out of all concerned! :heart

Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13).

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When Rocket seems to need fiber, we give him a Metamucil Wafer. We only give him 1 - he thinks it is a cookie and loves it. We do not have any of the special dietary considerations that you are dealing with though. Usually one wafer works great and gets ime back on track.

 

 

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Camp Broodie. The current home of Mark Kay Mark Jack.  Always missing my boy Rocket Hi Noon Rocket,  Allie  Phoenix Dynamite, Kate Miss Kate, Starz Under Da Starz, Petunia MW Neptunia and Diva Astar Dashindiva 

 

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Wow! There is some interesting stuff in here.

 

First: Thanks Claudia for the information on treating holistically. I've actually been helping a holistic vet marketing her non-profit organization. I've been interested in her approaches but have not been able to get my mind wrapped around the idea of holistic treatment. However, the time may have come.

 

Secondly: The antibiotic that he was on for the teeth is clindamycin. I will try to bring a poop sample with me tomorrow.

 

Lastly: Thanks for the advise on the Naltrexone and Glutamine. I will look into both of these.

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IMHO, if he was doing well before the antibiotics, the last thing you should be doing is changing his food. What works for one IBD dog does not necessarily work for another. If I gave Minnie (IBD X 2 diagnosed 7 1/2 yrs ago) the I/D that SoulsMom uses or the talapia that RobinM has fed, she'd end up with HGE.

 

If you want to add fiber, other choices include beet pulp, bran buds, or pumpkin. Another option is probiotics, although I've found that what suits one dog may make another worse. I've also had some success with allergy tests, but a lot of vets don't like them, and they probably wouldn't help with the immediate problem in any event.

 

I hope you can find some answers.

Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13); Greys Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10), Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08)
Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07-7/21)

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I've been careful to not introduce a lot of new foods throughout the last two weeks. I did try nutritional yeast last weekend to try to stimulate appetite. I also tried a little canned salmon (Merrick's Before Grain brand) but only as a portion of the protein. I blended it with chicken thinking the smell might stimulate some appetite. Otherwise, aside from switching from millet as the main carb source back to rice, there hasn't been a ton of changes. I did add probiotics under the advice of the vet.

 

The plan for today is to go to the IM doc for a follow-up. I will bring his liquid poop from this morning to test for bacteria. I also contacted the holistic vet I worked with over the summer and she's agreed to see him today as well. She is on the board of directors of the AHVMA and used to be a professor at Tufts Veterinary College so I know she's good but I still struggle with getting my mind around this alternative approach. She even has an ozone chamber that she mentioned she might use with him today. After two weeks of declining health, I'm guessing none of this can hurt. Then, depending on how today's appointments go, I have tentatively scheduled an appointment with his nutritionalist for Tuesday morning to discuss his diet.

 

I feel so bad for this guy. We had such a good summer I forgot how fragile he really is. Thanks again for all your advice. It really helped me develop a strategy for him.

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