Uti Or Kidney Disease

[Guest moxie]

Moxie is a 9 year old and I've had her for 7 years. We've been fairly happy with our vet, but he is not "grey" savvy. We had an issue a couple of years ago that they diagnosed her Bell's Palsy as being from thyroid disease. We had to beg for antibiotics to treat for an ear infection. Low and behold, the Palsy went away and she was fine.

 

Now, at the beginning of the week, Moxie began leaking urine. I immediately thought "UTI" and brought her into the vet. He took a cultured urine sample and some blood work. Her Cr level came back as 2.3. She is scared of the vet and took 35 mg. of acepromazine prior to going in and I'm not sure if that could effect her test levels. An ultrasound showed some inflammation in the wall of the bladder. I went ahead and authorized a complete work up of everything, but he refuses to give me antibiotics to treat what could be an infection. He also wants to do a more thorough imaging study of her kidneys. She really has no other symptoms other than the leaking urine. She doesn't act sick, she doesn't have excessive thirst, she has a good appetite, etc. The vet also suggested giving fluids through needle. He made me feel like an awful person for not bringing her in earlier, but she literally just started leaking on Sunday and I had her in to see him on Tuesday. He also made me feel awful for wanting to wait until I got the cultured test back.

 

Soooo . . . the cultured test comes back today, but should I be worried about the kidneys? Or am I taking this too lightly?

[CaliforniaGreys]

If it were me, I would find another vet. I have found with my own experiences that it's very important to have a Grey savy vet and one that you are comfortable with.Her Creat is a little high, but without her BUN it really means nothing.

Keep us posted if you will

[MaryJane]

Having access to a greyhound savvy vet is important for health problems that are prevalent in greyhounds. In this case though, I'm not sure that a different procedure would have been followed so far if you went to a grey-savvy vet.

 

It sounds like there is a question on whether there is a UTI and if I read your post correctly, you're waiting for the urine culture results before starting antibiotics which is reasonable in "today's climate of over-medicating with antibiotics. In my opinion and what I use as a basis for treatment in my dog, not giving antibiotics before the culture is back can be a good practice because treating with antibiotics that don't work can create a host of other issues. If you wait until the culture is back, you identify the bacteria and ensure that the correct antibiotic is used. Of course, there are cases of raging infections where haste is necessary but, that does not seem to be the case here. Having said that though, different vets may be more comfortable following a different procedure in the case of a UTI.

 

If the imaging study of the kidneys is being considered because of the creat value, then you may want to have your vet read the papers coming from Dr Couto's group on their studies with greyhounds. They have great papers on blood values in greyhounds. I believe Dr Couto's group also do consultations, and if so, maybe your vet can contact them.

 

As a side note, I had a greyhound with elevated creat values (with protein in the urine) and even though greyhounds can run higher values of creatinine normally, I put my greyhound on a restricted protein diet (kidney diet) after discussions with his vet. Within a few months, his creatinine value had dropped and there was no more protein in the urine. At that time I moved him to a regular diet.

 

[duncan41]

Here I go again, being ultra sensative about kidney issues! Making a long story short; one almost-5-year-old healthy girl visits the Vet Wednesday afternoon for leaking bladder. Urinalysis negative, exam negative. Prescribed PPA. Friday afternoon she started crying out, shaking, panting in pain. Saturday at noon at the E-vet she was diagnosed with acute renal failure, in critical condition. She is recovering.

Now, at the beginning of the week, Moxie began leaking urine. Suze had "cyclical incontinence" - leaking every 6 months for about 3 weeks at a time. I immediately thought "UTI" and brought her into the vet. He took a cultured urine sample - was a was a plain old urinalysis done??? - and some blood work. I had a culture done and it came back "no growth". Her Cr level came back as 2.3. Initial Cr was 5.6. We were THRILLED with a Creatine of 2.1 two weeks after discharge! She is scared of the vet and took 35 mg. of acepromazine prior to going in and I'm not sure if that could effect her test levels. An ultrasound showed some inflammation in the wall of the bladder. I went ahead and authorized a complete work up of everything, (what was the white blood cell count???) but he refuses to give me antibiotics to treat what could be an infection. He also wants to do a more thorough imaging study of her kidneys. HE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT AT THE SAME TIME HE LOOKED AT THE BLADDER! She really has no other symptoms other than the leaking urine. She doesn't act sick, she doesn't have excessive thirst, she has a good appetite, etc. Suze was 100% normal until noon the day her kidneys started to fail. The vet also suggested giving fluids through needle. He hasn't looked at her kidneys, she's eating, drinking, peeing and pooping normally and he wants to do IV fluids??? He made me feel like an awful person for not bringing her in earlier, but she literally just started leaking on Sunday and I had her in to see him on Tuesday. He also made me feel awful for wanting to wait until I got the cultured test back.

 

Soooo . . . the cultured test comes back today, but should I be worried about the kidneys? Or am I taking this too lightly?

No, you're being reasonably cautious. I would get a copy of all the test results, compare them to the Greyhound publications suggested above and go from there. I would seriously search out another Vet who doesn't try to use scare tactics and intimidation.

 

My experience with Suze was totally out of the norm. The E-vet and the Internist as well as my own Vet are totally perplexed by her episode. She was tested for everything imaginable and every test came back "normal/negative"; urine culture, Lyme, Erlichia, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Leptospirosis and Lymphoma. I'm not suggesting that my experience will be your experience, but there is a logical approach to treating Moxie's symptoms; the most important of which is how Moxie is acting from minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day. She's 9 and it could be incontinence. Before exploring meds for that, please have her blood pressure checked and search out other threads referencing DES (diethylstibestrol) and PPA (phenylpropanolamine) before giving her anything.

Edited March 26, 2009 by duncan41

[Batmom]

not giving antibiotics before the culture is back can be a good practice because treating with antibiotics that don't work can create a host of other issues.

 

All due respect, I disagree strongly. If the dog has some inflammation and symptoms, she needs antibiotics. Bladder infections are miserably painful. It's mean to make the dog wait. People don't wait for cultures in that situation. Plus, most infections respond to some degree to a broad-spectrum antibiotic, and the drug can be changed if the culture comes back showing a different sensitivity.

[Guest Greensleeves]

Having access to a greyhound savvy vet is important for health problems that are prevalent in greyhounds. In this case though, I'm not sure that a different procedure would have been followed so far if you went to a grey-savvy vet.

 

I agree with this. I'm not sure your vet is giving you the best advice, but I don't think the issue here is that he's not "grey-savvy."

[Guest moxie]

Thank you for all of your advice. I still haven't heard back on the results from the latest tests. I am horribly worried about her. I hate waiting and doing nothing. Moxie is in high spirits looking for treats, but I hate to think she could be in pain and nothing is happening. Duncan41, I'm glad that your dog is recovering. I wouldn't be quite as frustrated, if we hadn't been through the whole thing with the Bell's Palsy and supposed "thyroid" condition.

[duncan41]

Please don't focus on what isn't happening! If she's "in high spirits looking for treats", she may not be sick at all!

 

Believe me, if she's sick and/or in pain, you'll know it! If she refuses to eat, vomits, has the big D, has a fever, is drinking lots of water or refuses to drink at all, is shaking and/or panting and pacing or lethargic and depressed or any combination of those symptoms, she's sick and you need to do something immediately! If she's eating, peeing, pooping, playing and generally being her normal self, she's probably ok!

[CaliforniaGreys]

Having access to a greyhound savvy vet is important for health problems that are prevalent in greyhounds. In this case though, I'm not sure that a different procedure would have been followed so far if you went to a grey-savvy vet.

 

I agree with this. I'm not sure your vet is giving you the best advice, but I don't think the issue here is that he's not "grey-savvy."

 

You may very well be right here, but when a vet starts talking about Creat levels, kidney issues, I would want a Grey savy vet

[Guest moxie]

I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but the BUN did come back significantly high. So last night we started Moxie on Hill's K/D. We were so relieved that she loved the food. She's also on a huge fish oil pill, and another pill for hypertension (don't have the name in front of me). She is still in good spirits, barking at the speeding cars driving down the road this morning. Hopefully, we caught this in time. We will have her retested in a week and see how the BUN and Creatinine are doing.

 

Thank you for all of your advice.

[MaryJane]

Hopefully the K/D will help and the lab results next week will be better. It's good to hear that she is in high spirits and likes the food.

 

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but the BUN did come back significantly high. So last night we started Moxie on Hill's K/D. We were so relieved that she loved the food. She's also on a huge fish oil pill, and another pill for hypertension (don't have the name in front of me). She is still in good spirits, barking at the speeding cars driving down the road this morning. Hopefully, we caught this in time. We will have her retested in a week and see how the BUN and Creatinine are doing.

 

Thank you for all of your advice.

 

Good news!!! I was relieved that Misty likes the kD canned. She was dx with kidney disease and it's been 3 years now, sticking to the diet and meds, she's done very well and it's very much under control. So this can be managed with a good prognosis.

Please keep us posted if you will

[duncan41]

What is a "significantly high" BUN? What was the creatinine? Creatinine is a more meaningful measure of kidney function of the two. Do you know what her blood pressure is?

I'm so glad that at least she's feeling good and that she likes the food! I sure hope the food and the meds bring everything back within the normal range. Please let us know how she's doing!

[Guest speedoketo]

I just want to point out that being too trigger happy with antibiotics is why we have so many antibiotic resistant bacteria now which may explain why your vet is reluctant to dispense them without a firm diagnosis. A diagnosis will also indicate which antibiotic will work best