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Guest Spencers_Greyt

Okay Now I'm Freaked By The Use Of Proin/ppa

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Guest Spencers_Greyt

I didn't want to hijack another thread that was polling the use of incontinence medications.

 

Spencer is incontinent right now probably due to his compresssed disc problems and a UTI. The vet had him on 2 chewable tablets of Proin twice a day and 1 tab of DES. He said that Proin leaves the body quickly and the reason for doing it in the morning is to manage the leaking during the day and the one at night is for managing the leaking during the night. I decided to take Spencer off the Proin and DES as I want to concentrate on his back issues (seeing a chiro now) and his UTI (taking antibiotics). What I noticed was that I "think" that Spencer was still on the Proin when I noticed him panting heavily (I assumed it was the Prednisone he's on) and pacing quite a bit and then he would hold his head really weird, kind of down and tilted to the left (I thought maybe it was an ear infection until he did it several times with a weird look in his eyes). So now I'm thinking it's the Proin causing this! I'm glad I stopped giving it to him although I have noticed his head doing that weird thing even when he's been off of it. This is all super scary stuff to me!

 

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I won't use it. Tried it with Eliza and she had horrible panting, etc. Stopped it and she was fine. Also tried DES and her platelets dropped.

 

Sending prayers he is fine.


Diane & The Senior Gang

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I'd rather deal with the incontinence than risk the side effects and possible long term consequences of the meds.

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Guest vahoundlover

Not to scare you, but that was how Dolly acted before she crashed. We didn't have time to take her off of it, she started acting like that after her 3rd dose, she crashed soon after.

 

I'd definitely not give him anymore and make sure the vet is aware of the changes you noticed. If it was me I'd want my vet to see him.

 

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Guest benson

We took our 12 yo husky off of Proin after a week. She was panting, pacing and drinking gallons of water throughout the day. We would rather deal with the incontinence.

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Guest KennelMom

All drugs can have side effects...it's important to know side effects - something I think human docs and vets often neglect to communicate and patients/owners neglect to ask about. We've given both DES and proin with no I'll effects and it actually helped.

 

Glad you stopped giving it since it sounds like your pup had some negativ side effects

Edited by KennelMom

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Guest caiteag

Quinn was on Proin and this happened to him too. It scared the crap out of us and we got him off it right away... it took a few days before he was completely back to normal.

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Guest BoogieDown

I had a mixed breed on it, and she never suffered any ill effects. She was on OTC PPA before she went on the Proin (back in the day, before you had to pass a background check and leave a blood sample to buy PPA).

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My vet offered to put Sugar on it when her back end problems caused incontinence, but I said, with all her other health problems, I'd rather just clean up after her. I know many people have used it with no problems, but like Heather said, you need to be aware of the side effects.

 

I am glad he's off since he was showing a reaction. FWIW, once Sugar's back end got better, the incontinence mostly stopped. Acupuncture helped with that.

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Both of our Angels Sophia and LaceyLaine were on Proin and did greyt....HOWEVER....I only gave 1/4 of a chewable once a day for 4 days and then went every other day and it held them...Poor Sophia would be roached sleeping and you could just see her leaking. After the 2nd or 3rd 1/4 tab dose...they both stopped leaking. The directions on the bottle just seemed like too hefty of a dose for me...so we started slowly to see if it would help on a much smaller dose and it did!


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Guest jeannejj

Mandy has been on Proin for years, and has not had any bad effects. In the last year, we have added DES every 3 days. So far, so good. Every dog is different. Good luck.

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Yes, there's some potentially nasty side effects, including elevated blood pressure. :(


Jeanne with Remington & Scooter the cat
....and Beloved Bridge Angels Sandee, Shari, Wells, Derby, Phoenix, Jerry Lee and Finnian.....
If tears could build a stairway, and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven
and bring you home again.

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Have told the story roughly 1,400,032 times ... but ... Zema was having some mild overdrinking and not-so-mild leakage issues. I didn't want to put her on Proin/DES because the side effect potential is scary in her case -- she has kind of high blood pressure to begin with. Tried a million things, then tried a homeprepared very low salt diet. Leakage stopped. After several months, tried commercial food again. She was OK for 4-5 months, then leakage resumed. Put her back on homeprep diet. Leakage stopped within a few days. Won't be trying commercial food again.

 

We did try low-sodium prescription diet and that had no effect. I can give her some salt in her homeprep food and that is not a problem. I can give her a multivitamin and that is not a problem. Etc. Something in commercial food causes her to drink a little more than she needs to and then not feel that she needs to go out and leak instead.

 

Because I didn't -- and still don't -- know what she's sensitive to, I feed her mostly beef. No carbs other than some salt-free treats, no fancy veggie mixes, just beef and calcium supplement and multivitamin. Weird way to solve a problem, but it sure has worked for her.


Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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I had Stel on Proin for one night...she was a wreck and threw up all night long. Ditched it the next day and when herbal.


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Missing my handsome men Lewis (Vs Lowrider) - 11/11/01 - 3/11/09, Kevin (Dakota's Hi Five) - 1/1/06 - 4/18/11 and my cat, Sparkle Baby - ??/??/96 - 4/23/11

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Bridge angel China Blue had a stroke while on that stuff.


Mary in Houston

Everyone has a photographic memory, but not everyone has film.

LAND OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE

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We've had no side effects at 3/4 of a chewable once a day. The dose you were giving sounds really high to me.

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Guest GreysAndMoreGreys
Both of our Angels Sophia and LaceyLaine were on Proin and did greyt....HOWEVER....I only gave 1/4 of a chewable once a day for 4 days and then went every other day and it held them...Poor Sophia would be roached sleeping and you could just see her leaking. After the 2nd or 3rd 1/4 tab dose...they both stopped leaking. The directions on the bottle just seemed like too hefty of a dose for me...so we started slowly to see if it would help on a much smaller dose and it did!

I'm with Patti on this one.

It seems the dosage the vets want to put these hounds on is just to high.

I had Cassie on PPA for about 4 years and with the higher dosage there were issues. I cut the dosage down to a half of a chewie tab once a day and it kept the leakage in check.

 

Of course if Cassie got out and exercised more than normal then she would leak a bit.

We tried the herbal stuff and it did nothing to help.

 

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My Hunky started on 2 of the chewables and it was too high. He was panting, walking around looking nervous, just awful. Scared me to death. But I guess because I love love love my vet and because I've worked in mental health for so long, before I took him off of it I called the vet. We took his dose down to one a day, then one and a half, and now back up to two. No side effects. Hunky has always been an avid drinker, so that didn't really make a noticeable change. The herbal stuff did nothing but make Hunky refuse to eat his food when I'd put it on there.

 

Something Batmom said struck a chord with me...when I take H off his raw diet and put him on kibble, even wheat free higher quality stuff like the Kirkland's brand or Natural Balance, his incontinence gets worse. I read recently that grains can have an irritating effect on the urinary system and that if you have a dog (or a human, for that matter) that is intolerant of grains (wheat and rice being the worst two for this), it can cause some urinary tract issues. Hmmm...stopped his raw diet end of January in preparation for flying to the UK...by 2nd week in Feb he was soaking dog beds. Put him back on his raw diet (after several hundred $$ worth of blood tests that all came back healthy as a horse) two days ago and he's already keeping dry much longer than before.


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Nancy and Simon Dunne, with Clown and Daisy in Greenville,

SC....but missing West Yorkshire summat chronic! uk.gif

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Guest Spencers_Greyt

From everyone's responses, I think I'll wait until Spencer is off the Prednisone and the chiropractor has a chance to work with his back. Then after all that, if he's still incontinent, I might try 1/2 a tab once a day of the Proin to see if that makes a difference. I've already pretty resigned myself to his incontinence as it is. This puts me in a situation where I can't be longer than 4 hours away from him in order to change his pad. It's a tough schedule but at least I'm close enough at work to run home at lunch!

 

Thank you everyone for your responses!

Donna

 

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Guest lastlaff

There is another option, but it is very expensive. However, it's safer so I thought I would mention it. Collagen injections. They inject medical grade collagen into the tissue surrounding the bladder sphincter (under general anesthesia of course) and thus reduces the work the sphinter has to do to keep the bladder "sealed". It has no known dangerous side effects other than perhaps tightening it too much which I believ they can correct. OSU claims a 70 percent effectiveness rate. The catch?

 

Cost - greys run around $1400-$1600 by verbal estimate and touch ups may need done ( I belive at about half that cost, the cost is in the actual collagen..apparently too many hollywood types will pay through their fakes noses to get fake lips...the same collagen is used.

 

BTW, please be aware numerous strokes have occured in greyhounds due to the usage of PPA, stroke symptoms fro dogs are:

 

tilting the head to the side

* walking in a circle

* turning the wrong way when called

* eating out of only one side of the food bowl

* loss of balance

* lethargy/acting tired

* loss of bladder and bowel control

* blindness

* sudden behavioral changes

 

Fortuneately, dogs have a far better chance of rapid full recovery from stroke, but, multiple strokes can't be good.

 

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Beans was on PPA (generic Proin) for a little while. I only gave him 1/4 tab twice a day - not the recommended 2 tabs!! He took it really well for roughly 2 weeks. Then he started to refuse it. We'd keep him off it for a week, then back on for a while, then refusing it again. This went on for about 2 months. I started thinking that he doesn't refuse ANYTHING (even dried black beans - he tries to eat them) so it can't be good that he's refusing a beef flavored treat. So we decided to just deal with belly bands for the leakage. After a while with the belly bands he completely stopped leaking!

 

If it was my dog, I wouldn't give it again based on what I saw. But, every dog is different and reacts to meds differently.

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What strength is the Proin? Ruby is on 25 mg twice a day. The specialist wanted to start her out on 80 mg twice a day but I wouldn't let her. I know they also make 50 mg tablets.


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Hunky's dose is 1 50mg tablet BID. His incontinence has gotten better on that dose and when I can keep all grains out of his diet...but living with two cats and my roommate's dog who are all on kibble it's hard to keep that completely under control. The one thing I'd still stress is not to stop ANY medication without a doctor's advice. Some meds have to be weaned off to be safe to stop and some don't. I don't have a DVM so I don't feel comfortable making that call myself.


1891749469_26b4440a06_m.jpg
Nancy and Simon Dunne, with Clown and Daisy in Greenville,

SC....but missing West Yorkshire summat chronic! uk.gif

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