Poor Happy!

[Xan]

Poor little Happy!! We're still trying to figure out what's wrong with her, but it could be bad. Kidney disease or maybe something worse in her intestines .... :

 

She came to us last year at 8.5 years old, skin and bones, not much appetite on and off, with the most horrible teeth (and breath! ), a skin rash, an unidentified lump, and very dry skin. And nasty poop. And worms. Oh, and her front feet were puffy in the mornings. Oh, and some kind of unpleasentness in her hoo-hoo, which occasionally requires some ointment. We got rid of the worms, biopsied both the lump (fatty) and the rash (indeterminate), worked on the food/poop condition, got rid of about half her teeth, and started brushing her teeth every day, putting various lotions on her rash, keeping a shirt on her to cut down on irritants, monitoring her puffy feet, and just loving the heck out of her pretty little self! What a dear!! At one point, she seemed to be limping a bit, so we watched, waited, and eventually got x-rays from neck to toes. No cancer, but there was some minor compression in her neck vertebrae, and some small abnormalities in one "wrist", and some fusing in the bones of her hock consistant with the break that ended her racing career. Nothing conclusive.

 

She's a girl of light and dark. Her name is Happy, but she has an alter-ego we laughingly call UN-Happy, who can put up quite a whine. She likes to chase the other dogs when they get to running in the yard, and will just prance and bounce up to you for love and kisses. She loves attention, and will shove right in for it, standing on or over another dog if necessary but is unwilling to get up on the couch for cuddles, so I have to get my Happy-fix on the floor.

 

So, about a month and a half ago, her usually funky poop got pretty bad; mucus-y and wet. So, we fasted her for a day, and started her on white rice and white turkey meat for a several days. No improvement, so off to the vet. On the possibilities that she's basically an allergic dog, who might also have some intestinal bugs, we put her on Z/D ($$$$ ), metronidazole, and ceflopadoxine (or something like that). The big D cleared up over night (yeay!!), and she liked the food. Great.

 

Three weeks later, or so, after the drugs are done, major big D! We were up all night taking her out, and she was obviously uncomfortable. Fasted her for breakfast, back to vet. Vet says, try this other food to stop up the D, and let's take some blood and urine. Values are not good. There's almost no protein in her blood, but a lot in her urine, along with some blood and leucocytes. Since the antibiotics helped, let's put her back on them, then we'll have to figure out how to stabilize the protein situation. This means plasma protein IV, possibly for 2 or three days. Could be kidneys, could be intestines, could be cancer, could be IBD, could be ......... How to know? Maybe ultrasound will tell us, maybe have to do a biopsy of her intestine or kidneys (or both??)

 

Now, I wish it weren't an issue, but DH and I are both self-employed, and it's been a tough year. Neither one of us is taking care of our own (small) medical issues 'til things turn around. But, here we are.

 

The new food did help with the D, but the first night she was still very uncomfortable, up whining and pacing every hour or so. I called the vet. Time to set up the IV before she crashes.

 

Brilly is a blood donor at another vet, whom I LOOOOOVE!!!, but who is 2 to 3 times more expensive than the vet we've been working with recently (whom I also like). The expensive vet also seems to be a little more grey-savvy, and noticed that Happy's platelets were low for a grey (but in normal range for other breeds). Because Brilly is a donor, I get some credit for blood products through that vet, so we decided to bring her down there for the infusion. Dr. Sullivan (did I say I LOOOOOVE him??) even offered to make the bill low enough that we can even pay it off with credit on Brilly's donations! (I'm going to see about bringing Pogo in for donations, too! Put that hooligan to work, for pete's sake!! )

 

Dr. S had some thoughts about what could be behind all this, which included IBD, a chronic bacterial overgrowth which could be treated simply with a drug she can take for the rest of her life (this one gets my vote!), cancer (NO!!), a chronic upper GI ulcer. He wasn't as concerned about the possibility of a kidney issue because he said he'd expect to see way more protein in the urine.

 

Anyway, right now, my little mama dog is settling into her new digs, getting tubes stuck in her.

 

Anyone have any helpful thoughts?

 

Other than that, just maybe send on some positive thinking/white light/prayers/comfort in her direction, if you have any to spare.

 

If you actually read all this, you totally get a gold star for listening!!

 

Here's my little gal, to focus your loving thoughts on.

 

 

[Guest hannahmom]

I read every word, and I'm sending lots of prayers for Miss Happy and a for you and your family

[dante2zoe]

I read the whole thing and am sending white light and healing thoughts your way. Please keep us posted!

[ShantisMom]

I too read it all! I hate it when there are so many unknown possibilities. I wish they could just tell us. I have no clue what is getting to Happy, but I have heard of a lot of them going through all Shanti's junk. I will think really good HAPPY healthy thoughts!

[patricia]

Sending prayers for precious Happy. I hope you get some answers soon.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

Sending good thoughts for your Happy

[ahicks51]

If it's PLE caused by SIBO, bacterial overgrowth, etc. it *should* clear on a carb-restricted diet. Z/D does not qualify; from Hill's website:

 

Water, Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Corn Starch, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Citrate, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), L-Threonine, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Tryptophan, Beta-Carotene, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid.

 

That corn starch will be the main problem. Raw feeding would exclude ALL carbohydrates (except for a bit of the ol' glycogen in the blood), and probably cost less. Chicken and beef heart would be my recommendation- try it for a week, and add absolutely NO vegetable matter- NO wheat, no snacks, no treats, no nothing.

 

If SIBO/PLE is the same as in humans, I'd recommend culturing the stool for Klebsiella, but- I don't know about the gastric flora of the canine. That could be way off base.

[macoduck]

Hoping for a Happy-er tomorrow.

[Xan]

Thank you for reading and caring, you guys!!

 

Ahicks, that's good info. I saw that corn starch in there, too, and thought, "Corn is in an ultra-low allergen food?" :blink

I'll talk to my beLOOOOOOVEd vet about the low/no carb diet. Raw has been something I've thought of for years, but my vegan soul keeps cringing away from it. : I'm sure raw or home-cooked would be better for all the critters than kibble, though.

 

Just got off the phone with Dr. S, who had a lot to talk about, and did so at length. His reading of the blood values did not add up the same as Dr. B, to the point that he did not want to give her blood products at all. He thinks she's in the low-normal range for total protein in the blood! YEAY! But, she's obviously got at least one thing going on, and maybe more. He wants to culture her urine, keep her overnight, and test her blood again in the morning, probably putting her on the tylan powder (anti-bacterial).

 

As we talked, we considered the possibilities of tick borne diseases, fungal issues, and maybe a few others, from her former life. Oh, and even a chronic bloat, which he described as being a precursor to a torsion, and which can cause discomfort, nausea without being able to vomit, or with vomiting, big D ... but I hadn't seen her vomiting or trying to, so we pretty much ruled that one out.

 

He even said he'd call Dr. B and talk to him directly about all this (but you could tell he wasn't looking forward to it! ), and keep Happy overnight without charging me! I told him to be careful, that I was going to fall in love with him (but, not really, since I'm a very happily married woman! )

 

Anyway, Mama Happy is hanging out with the nice staff at Bellingham Vet. Clinic tonight, and we'll know more tomorrow.

 

Oh, and you all get a big Gold Star!!

[ahicks51]

Ahicks, that's good info. I saw that corn starch in there, too, and thought, "Corn is in an ultra-low allergen food?" :blink

I'll talk to my beLOOOOOOVEd vet about the low/no carb diet. Raw has been something I've thought of for years, but my vegan soul keeps cringing away from it. : I'm sure raw or home-cooked would be better for all the critters than kibble, though.

 

And "powdered cellulose." That's sawdust. Hypoallergenic, perhaps, but- what exactly is that supposed to establish?

 

I should have mentioned home-cooked as well. Powder some eggshells for calcium, and feed meat + eggshells. Maybe a *few* low-sugar veggies like cauliflower if you absolutely must.

[CaliforniaGreys]

Wow...that's a lot to take in. So many unknowns. No advice or experience here but sure have a lot of prayers for this pretty little girl.

[Trudy]

what are the protein values in the urine?

Ryans were sky high and are still quite high, but stable and we don't worry about it anymore. We still don't know what is causing all his issues.

 

Good luck figuring it out.

[Xan]

Ahicks, um, good question! Maybe they like sawdust?? I know mine eat it when it gets kicked out of the catbox (we use wood pellets for litter)!

 

She can't live forever on just meat, can she? Especially a narrow range of meats, right?

 

Trudy, that's weird about Ryan! I left all my records at the clinic for them to look at, but it was 500 ... something. Units? Percent of something? He said, at that level, he suspects the GI, more than the kidneys, which would be much higher.

[tbhounds]

First you need to determine were she's losing the protein--though the gut or through the kidney's as each condition will have different treatment protocols.

Do remember that greyhounds do have lower blood proteins than other breeds (Dr Couto's doing a study) and sometimes you will find protein in the urine. You do need to see if see if making enough protein and to do that you should run a bile acid test--easy to do--you need to run two separate blood draws (one fasted and one after she ate). Was the urine they tested a sterile sample or was it a voided sample (free catch)? You will get false readings if the urine is for example caught in an old chicken soup container.

I would tend to think that she might have IBD as she had responded to the Metronidazole and diet change in the past. She may also have a UTI--completely unrelated to the protein loss (don't forget if there is blood in the urine sample protein will be too)

To determine if she has IBD intestinal biopsy's are in order--usuall obtained via an endoscope. Sometimes a true cut biopsy is in order, however, that's via abdominal surgery-ugh.

IBD can vary in degree's--some dogs respond well to just diet changes (novel protein/novel carb) and others (like my boy) it can be life threatening and need extensive medications (Metronidazole, tylan, steriods, B-12 injection ect....)and care.

Good luck with her--if her condition doesn't improve I would encourage you to seek out an Internist.

She's darling :rolleyes:

[Remolacha]

sooo frustrating when it could be one of so many different things, or even something else

 

for Happy

[patricia]

Sending more prayers and chanting this is nothing serious and Miss Happy will be home tomorrow morning.

[Trudy]

If they are doing another urine check, have them do the protein/creatinine ratio - the raw protein value/quick dip test doesn't tell you much.

[jenners]

Oh, no, KNOT Miss Happy Teeth! Xan, she will be in my thoughts and prayers, I do love that sweet little girl . Keep us updated, OK?

 

Hugs,

Jennifer

[duncan41]

Aaww! She's a real cutie pie! So sorry she's in a bad way. Sounds like Dr. S is a keeper! Regardless, after devouring each and every word, I'm sending the brightest white light to cute Happy and hugs for her Mom!

[Guest vahoundlover]

I'm sorry I have no advice. Poor Happy sure has had a time of it. I think I'd contact Dr Couto and see if he can offer any advice. Please keep us updated!

[carronstar]

Read every word here too, sending lots of good thoughts and prayers for Happy.

[greyhndz]

Xan, you should get in touch with "tigger", whose Stevie was recently diagnosed with PLE. Here's her thread from around a month ago:

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry3670337

 

I'll point her toward this thread. She's done tons of research and I'm sure would be happy to share what she has been through.

[Xan]

Wow! Thanks, you guys!! I'm taking notes to talk to Dr. S tomorrow.

GT is just such a huge resource!!!

[ahicks51]

She can't live forever on just meat, can she? Especially a narrow range of meats, right?

 

Sure. Even humans can.

 

Do it diagnostically for a week; if it agrees with her, you will have to expand the offerings to assure a good balance. But, yes- all meat (with some bone) is perfectly adequate for dogs. They are carnivores, after all.

[Guest mandm]

When I got my 5 yr old greyhound 3 yrs ago, he was a mess. Underweight, poor digestion, diarrhea, no appetite, weird unexplained lameness, lethargy, mild incontinence, heat intolerance. His blood platelets were lowish, in the 80,000s, borderline low. Tick panel showed that he was low positive for babesia. Another platelet count indicated that platelets were falling, not yet to dangerous levels, but falling nonetheless. So we treated the babesia. All symptoms cleared almost immediately, except for the GI problems.

 

I never had him scoped, but ran lots of labs on him. The vet never mentioned anything about protein levels, so I don't think my greyhound had that problem, but he did have SIBO, Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth. He had a pretty bad case. Meds didn't fix it.

 

He couldn't eat kibble, so I home cooked -- meat & starch. I experimented with the meat-to-carb ratio and discovered that he digested better as I lowered the carb amount & increased the meat amount. I ended up feeding him just meat -- cooked & well drained of fat and added bonemeal for calcium. It helped but did not cure him. I tried Tylan, it seemed to help, but so little that it was hard to tell. Maybe he would have been worse off without it, I don't know.

 

He was alive, but not thriving. After a while, the lean cooked meat diet stopped working. I changed protein type. Worked for a month or so, then I had to find another novel protein.

 

I brought home a rabbit, not sure if it was a protein that was new to him, and he wanted it bad. "Just unwrap it & give it to me," he seemed to say, "don't bother cooking it." So I threw the raw rabbit in the backyard, he devoured it, finished with a sparkle in his eye, and a few hours later delivered the most perfect turd I have ever seen.

 

He's been on a low-fat raw diet ever since.

 

He's doing great now, looks fabulously healthy. No meds other that vitamin/mineral supplement, mostly B vitamins.

 

If it were me, I'd check out those low platelets first thing, could be TBD. Then try to figure out the GI problems. Seems to me that a lot TBD greyhounds also have stomach problems.