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Sonny Has A Swollen Toe


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I might try to take him to the vet today, if I can find one that is open soon...

 

His paw is swollen on his front toe, one of the ones in the middle...where it is is hard to explain. Its the first bump, or knuckle, as you move up from the nail. He does walk on it, but he does limp a bit, and when we were doing a tick check last night (that's when we noticed) he was very protective of it, it looked like it hurt a lot.

 

Any ideas as to what this might be? I'm going to the vet as soon as possible, I'm just curious. Its not grotesquely swollen, but it is obviously about twice as wide/tall as the other toes at that knuckle joint.

Angel Sonny aka Whistlin Bill, 62314; Carmella aka Eg Rain Dust, 81693

Plus Boudreaux, Calzone & Hops the cats, Katie & Tony the humans and our Terrific Skinkids Tommy and Jimmy

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars...Oscar Wilde

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Wonder if he could've dislocated it? Vet check is a good idea. I *think* these usually do heal pretty well on their own. Batman has a couple of grotesquely enlarged "knuckles" from old injuries, don't cause him any pain now.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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The swelling can be due to some trauma or bruising. I would wait a few days putting Arnica on

it carefully and I would give him the homeopathic remedy BELLADONNA D4 every 2 hours till

you notice that he's getting better. If in two or three days the paw doesn't get better I would

take her to the vet.

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Marion, Ivy & Soldi

 

Perseverance is not a long race...

it is many short races one after another.

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Dislocation is my first thought. Just had a dog in the kennel with a similar complaint and that's what it was. Spider bite is my second thought. Had another dog in the kennel a month or so with a spider bite...and it will swell.

 

Get well soon, Sonny.

ATASCOSITA DIAZ - MY WONDER DOG!
Missing our Raisin: 9/9/94 - 7/20/08, our Super Bea: 2003 - 12/16/09, our Howie: 9/17/97 - 4/9/11, our Bull: 8/7/00 - 1/17/13, our Wyatt Earp: 11/22/06 - 12/16/15, and our Cyclone 8/26/05 - 9/12/16

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Well we went ahead and went to the vet...we're only out $65 so I guess its not too bad. The vet said that it is definitly the joint, not the bone (no break) and that its really hard- but apparantly its fluid build up on top of the knuckle, he probably knocked it really hard. He also had some abrasions inside that toe. We think he probably did it trying to jump into DH's raised garden (which, unfortunately, he loves to do).

 

So the vet said he should be on anti-inflammatories for a week. I saw the meds were carprofen and didn't think anything of it till we came home and I saw the big "R" on the pill and realized it was Rimadyl. Is it only long term use of Rimadyl that can be harmful, or short term too? I need to do some research, but it might be hard to convince DH not to use it, since the vet prescribed it and Sonny is still visibly limping...

Angel Sonny aka Whistlin Bill, 62314; Carmella aka Eg Rain Dust, 81693

Plus Boudreaux, Calzone & Hops the cats, Katie & Tony the humans and our Terrific Skinkids Tommy and Jimmy

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars...Oscar Wilde

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Ok...I'm going to say REAL carefully (and with absolutely no expertise!) that as long as Sonny's blood profiles are OK. a few days of R. might not necessarily be a problem. I have kennel dogs on R. all the time for a few days after spay/neuter. The kennelmaster generally takes them off it even before the scrip is used up, though, to be on the safe side. Only a few days and we watch like a hawk.

 

If it was Howie, though, I wouldn't give R. I would look for alternatives.

 

Someone posted once that pain killers like that don't really encourage the dog to lay down and REST which is what they need to do to heal. It masks things and then they want to get up and play as usual and don't heal as fast. That line of thought makes sense to me.

 

You could give him Ascriptin in canned food or ground meat. That would be an alternative - if you think he is really hurting.

ATASCOSITA DIAZ - MY WONDER DOG!
Missing our Raisin: 9/9/94 - 7/20/08, our Super Bea: 2003 - 12/16/09, our Howie: 9/17/97 - 4/9/11, our Bull: 8/7/00 - 1/17/13, our Wyatt Earp: 11/22/06 - 12/16/15, and our Cyclone 8/26/05 - 9/12/16

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Guest LynnM

If he is otherwise healthy, go ahead and give him the Rimadyl. Pain is pain, and I see no point in keeping him hurting just so he'll stay off of it. If he is bound and determined to be active, perhaps a day or two of crate rest might be in order.

 

Now- onto the Rimadyl. I would go ahead and give it. If you see diarrhea, or tenderness about the liver and kidneys (abdominal), STOP and call your vet. We had some poor owners the other day who nearly ended up with a dead dog. Not because of the reaction to Rimadyl- that could have been treated early and quickly, but because the folks at the emergency vet said "If he seems to be in pain, give him his Rimadyl." when the owners took the dog there. WRONG ANSWER. The owners, who were briefed on things to look for by the staff at my clinic, and in written instructions, noticed the symptoms and got pretty lousy advice when they called the e-clinic. Fortunately, he's tender, but will be okay. If only that clinic picked up on a reaction as fast as the owners. That said, that is the first reaction in over 6 months that we've seen and we handle a LOT of geriatric dogs.

 

So, know what to look for- yellowing on the sclera (whites of eyes), under the tongue, abdominal tenderness, bloody vomit or poop. If you see these things (you probably won't) STOP and call your vet. I bet he'll be fine in no time, though.

 

Lynn

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Thanks for the advice guys! Right now he is resting on his bed. We might try using a baby gate to keep him in his bed area, because even without the Rimadyl, he's still very active- we let him outside and he started to run around the yard- just after, he limped back over to us but we are going to have to watch him in the yard too, because he is definitly the type of dog who doesn't know when to stop.

 

We'll probably keep giving it to him, and just keep an eye out for any of those symptoms. And also keep him as immobilized as possible!

Angel Sonny aka Whistlin Bill, 62314; Carmella aka Eg Rain Dust, 81693

Plus Boudreaux, Calzone & Hops the cats, Katie & Tony the humans and our Terrific Skinkids Tommy and Jimmy

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars...Oscar Wilde

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Guest spazkaz

Best of luck. There seems to be nothing more difficult (or heartbreaking) than having to keep a grey from running and playing. My girl is (STILL) recovering from a broken hock, and the vet says to keep her on leash walks only for a while longer. It's so hard, cause the weather's getting nice, and she wants to run so badly! :(

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Guest rockingship

The vet is overreacting, IMO....rub some DMSO on it 4 X times a day....it'll calcify and be fine in a few weeks. Absolutely NO need for the big R to treat a jammed toe :rolleyes: .....these sort of things are pretty common with racing dogs....BTW....make sure the nail is filed flat on the bottom and trimmed back ...

Edited by rockingship
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Guest LynnM

It's a matter of personal preference with the vet. Some vets feel that DMSO is more dangerous than Rimadyl because of it's property of being able to breach the skin. It also takes other compounds that are dissolved in it that might not otherwise be able to cross the skin. In other words, it is also not without its risks, even though it's generally safe. It's a matter of the vet's preference.

 

Lynn

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Guest rockingship

Hi Lynn.....actually, if he were racing, the treatment would be to novocaine the 1st and 2nd phalanx, and take the nail right off------put some sulpha powder on it, wrap it up, and in 5 days the swelling would be gone, and you could resume training....an old coursing trainer's remedy.....works like a charm....

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Guest LynnM

This is true. I am fortunate to work for a former track vet and you and I are familiar with these sorts of things. Vets and owners who are "grey savvy" but only with retirees have a much different mindset. The performance world and the pet world are very different where such treatments are concerned. I think nothing of restraining my dog and pulling a nail when something traumatic has happened to that nail. Many people would choose to allow it to fall out on its own. I like my dog back on his feet QUICKLY. Others would rather let nature take its course even if it means a few days of gimpiness. In a non-performance hound, that's not an issue and is just a matter of personal preference. I personally use DMSO as a "first line of defense", but in my particular dogs, we have more issues with LS pain and shoulder muscles, rather than toes, although Joplin is set to have a dew removed... I have just gotten tired of yanking it every time if grows in funny :) He came to me with it infected, and it's *sort of* cleared up, but the nail bed is deformed and the stupid thing always grows in wierd.

 

Onrushpam told me about a VERY interesting new treatment for dislocated toes in coursing and performance hounds up at Auburn University. I am really interested in learning about it.

 

Lynn

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Guest EllenEveAndBaz

My own preference is for Rimadyl only as a last resort for severe pain. I am really scared of the stuff. But ...

 

... on another tangent, I hope Sonny's toe swelling goes down, but don't be too surprised if it doesn't, or if it doesn't go down all the way. As I understand it, there are several types of toe injuries where the swelling becomes permanent somehow, even after the pain ceases.

Edited by Ellen, Eve, and Baz
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Wait, now I'm really confused! :lol What is DMSO?

 

His injury doesn't SEEM to involve his nail at all- its above that, in the knuckle. The vet didn't tell me it was a jammed toe (might have been what he meant)...he didn't think there was bone involvement, just swelling (maybe these two go together, I don't know).

 

Anyway, day 2 and the swelling isn't really down...but we'll see...probably check how he moves outside later. Not too obvious of a limp except when he gets up from sleeping.

Angel Sonny aka Whistlin Bill, 62314; Carmella aka Eg Rain Dust, 81693

Plus Boudreaux, Calzone & Hops the cats, Katie & Tony the humans and our Terrific Skinkids Tommy and Jimmy

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars...Oscar Wilde

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Guest azlorenz

My only knowledge is from experience. My Lexie injured her toe last Fall. I just knew it had to be broken as large as it had swelled (knot was the size of a large grape). Had it x-rayed which showed no break or dislocation only a lot of imflammation. We assumed she dislocated it and it slipped back or just jammed it a good one. She had minimal pain and really didn't even lick it so we just opted to soak it in a whirlpool bath to see if we could get the swelling down. We measured with calipers the night it happened. We religously whirlpooled her tootsies nightly and it didn't go down one itsy bitsy bit. Rockingship is right - it calcified. Anyway, that was in October when she injured it and the vet assured us it would just take time and maybe it wouldn't go down. I finally put it out of my mind and the other day I was looking at it and noticed it seemed like it was smaller. Got the calipers out and I couldn't believe it. It has really shrunk and is almost the size of the same joint on her other foot. Patience and time.

Edited by azlorenz
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Guest LynnM

DMSO is an organic solvent- Dimethyl Sulfoxide. Aside from being very useful in the lab, it is an anti-inflammatory when applied topically over an injury. Where things get dicey is that DMSO has a very interesting property that can be helpful or harmful: it can go right through the skin. It also passes this property along to other molecules that are dissolved in it. It is a carrier for many transdermal medications- I believe both Nitroglycerine and Fentanyl patches use DMSO as a carrier, but don't quote me on that. The issue that can arise is that if there is a contaminant on the skin, the DMSO will carry it into the body. Same goes if the DMSO isn't stored properly and an impurity gets into it. Mammalian skin is THE best defense an animal has against foreign substances, so when a chemical has the ability to go straight through it, and bring just about anything else with it, there is potential for very bad things to happen. Fortunately, this is rare. It is best to apply it with a gloved hand, although I have used it on myself- carefully. I hope this helps a bit.

 

As to what a vet would use to treat pain, DMSO is another "weapon" in his arsenal of pain and inflammation management techniques, and a VERY effective one.

 

Lynn

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Guest rockingship

We also used to sometimes use DMSO on top of linaments, or mixed into linaments, when rubbing the dogs down---it would drive the linament in, and really help to unstiffen muscles and to lessen muscle soreness. It became a popular remedy among folks who were bothered by arthritis pain-----most pharmacies carry it, or used to, anyway----some doctors were prescribing it at one point-----I don't know if it is still in vogue.

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Guest LynnM

There is actually a book available in the "alternative health" sections of bookstores that is all about the medicinal uses- proven and not quite so proven of DMSO. I haven't looked at the book too hard- I have a feeling that a good bit of it is bunk, or at least somewhat exaggerated claims, but there was some good info there, too. I haven't seen it in OTC pharmacies recently, and I keep pretty up to date on what's available. The feed stores that do a lot of equine business are your best bets for finding it. My vet also carries it and we use it frequently. I'm not sure if it is still approved for human use or not.

 

Lynn

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Guest Angie626

My personal experience with Rimadyl was not too good. Actually it was Etogesic, not even Rimadyl which is even stronger. We had our big dog, Murphy on it for just under a week and he got pretty sick. He was 165 lbs. so I just don't think a greyhound could handle it if our big guy had such problems.

 

Just my personal choice. Hope my buddy Sonny feels better soon!

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Onrushpam told me about a VERY interesting new treatment for dislocated toes in coursing and performance hounds up at Auburn University. I am really interested in learning about it.

Actually, it's not new at all in the racing world... I'm sure Rockingship is familiar with what the old-timers call "firing a toe"... But, Rob Gillette, at Aurburn U. is a master at it. He's fixed up many toes on our Southeastern Greyhound Club lure coursing doggies! My Amy girl is in _bad_ need of a trip to see her buddy Dr. Rob! :(

Pam

GPA-Tallahassee/Southeastern Greyhound Adoption

"Fate is unalterable only in the sense that given a cause, a certain result must follow, but no cause is inevitable in itself, and man can shape his world if he does not resign himself to ignorance." Pearl S. Buck

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Guest rockingship

Yes Pam, I had experience with firing toes, wrists, and certain muscles. In those days many vets pooh-pooed firing with a sclerotic agent, and were of the opinion that it was better to take badly injured toes off surgically----which I liked to avoid if possible. Nice to see that the folks at Auburn U are catching up with us old-timers.....;o))

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Guest LynnM

*Blush* I'm out of the loop then. Sports medicine is just fascinating to me- a lot more exciting than dealing with old-age dogs day after day after day. Of course they have their interesting points as well, but these performance dogs are where it's at in my book.

 

Lynn

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Yes Pam, I had experience with firing toes, wrists, and certain muscles. In those days many vets pooh-pooed firing with a sclerotic agent, and were of the opinion that it was better to take badly injured toes off surgically----which I liked to avoid if possible. Nice to see that the folks at Auburn U are catching up with us old-timers.....;o))

Rob came to a few of our lure coursing trials (and had at least one dog do _very_ well)... He saw a bunch of dogs with toes lopped off and said "Whoa! I can do better than that!!!" He's worked on my Amy girl several times... She was his "demo dog" for a seminar last year. He's fired a couple of toes, her shoulder, and helped me with treatments for some other issues. Lure coursing is _hard_ on dogs, especially if they run in top competition weekend after weekend...

 

The _really_ cool thing about taking a dog to Rob is that you get an in-depth lesson in canine anatomy, how to examine a dog for injuries, nutrition, kinesiology of the canine gait, etc., etc... As long as you can hang in and ask questions, he'll teach you!!! And, he has "magic hands"... I just LOVE watching him check out my pups... If only he weren't 4+ hours away!!! :(

 

The funny thing was when he told us he'd never seen the inside of a toe he had "fired"... A friend wound up having to amputate a toe Rob had worked on. So, he had the toe "preserved" and Fed-Exed it to Rob! :blink:

 

If it weren't for Rob, Amy would be missing a couple of toes...

Pam

GPA-Tallahassee/Southeastern Greyhound Adoption

"Fate is unalterable only in the sense that given a cause, a certain result must follow, but no cause is inevitable in itself, and man can shape his world if he does not resign himself to ignorance." Pearl S. Buck

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Maybe I need to start a new thread?

 

Tell me more what this "firing of the toe" is.

 

My boy is missing a toe on his front right. I wonder why they did not do this for him rather than amputate. He raced even after it was amputated.

 

But, of course, there are perhaps lots of reasons why they chose to amputate it, I'm sure.

ATASCOSITA DIAZ - MY WONDER DOG!
Missing our Raisin: 9/9/94 - 7/20/08, our Super Bea: 2003 - 12/16/09, our Howie: 9/17/97 - 4/9/11, our Bull: 8/7/00 - 1/17/13, our Wyatt Earp: 11/22/06 - 12/16/15, and our Cyclone 8/26/05 - 9/12/16

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