Guest EmilyAnne Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I heard somewhere, can't remember where, that milk thistle interferes with absorption of phenobarbital. Anybody heard of this theory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieAndRexsMom Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 No, I haven't but I am looking now. When I researched it for my liver, I found no drug interactions. http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/milk-thistle-000266.htm from this site: Possible Interactions If you are currently being treated with any of the following medications, you should not use milk thistle without first talking to your healthcare provider. Similar to its ability to protect against damage to the liver from alcohol and acetominophen, as discussed in the Overview, milk thistle may also protect against liver damage from the following medications: Antipsychotics : This group of medications used for schizophrenia includes butyrophenones (such as haloperidol) and phenothiazines (such as chlorpromazine, fluphenazine, and promethazine) Phenytoin : a medication used for seizures (Phenytoin is Dilantin) Halothane : a medication used during general anesthesia Bigger drug list here: http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/mthistle.html Quote Tonya, mom to May, and my angels Vinnie, Rex, Red, Chase, and Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EmilyAnne Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Thank you for the link Tonya. It doesn't list Phenobarbital, and I have googled up and down and sideways and can find nothing on this, so I'm gonna assume I have nothing to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 The Complete Holistic Dog Book lists milk thistle as a beneficial herb to be given if on phenobarb for seizure control. It says it may help protect the liver against toxic damage resulting from phenobarbital therapy for seizure control. I did read on the canine epilepsy website that taking milk may increase the effectivity of some drugs because the liver will process them more efficiently. It didn't specifically name phenobarb though. From this though I would gather that it is potentally possible to be able to decrease the dosage of phenobarb if it is processed better. Judy Mom to Nadir, Beanie, Bruiser, and foster Jolly Mon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest longdogs Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Milk thistle has been shown to affect the absorption of many drugs by the liver, so it is quite likely. I'm not sure if phenobarbital is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trudy Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Check with your vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EmilyAnne Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Check with your vet. I did, now I'm doing the research on my own part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieAndRexsMom Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) You're welcome The hvc site states mor clearly than some of the others that milk thistle can increase the levels of some drugs and decrease the level of othes. I'm reading it as these are the drug interactions they know about. If it does interact, then you'll either have too much or too little phenobarb, and that needs to be a closely regulated dosage, right? Personally, I wouldn't mess with it (I realize that was not your question ). As I sit here, I wonder if it screwed with my estrogen. I was thinking about starting it again, but I'm on a statin now, so I'm going to pass. I will, however, start it again after the statins are done Re: Henry With that wonderful homecooked you feed him, I wouldn't think he would have that many other toxins in his body. Am I helping yet? Edited October 19, 2008 by VinnieAndRexsMom Quote Tonya, mom to May, and my angels Vinnie, Rex, Red, Chase, and Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWrangler Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Thank you for the link Tonya. It doesn't list Phenobarbital, and I have googled up and down and sideways and can find nothing on this, so I'm gonna assume I have nothing to worry about. When looking up for interactions to Phenobarb and nothing shows try looking up Belladonna. Phenobarb has been a generic drug so long and is so cheap no company will pay to have the name listed. ets - can't spell Edited October 19, 2008 by GreyWrangler Quote Nancy and Grace - Andicot 2/1/07 Solo - Flying Han Solo 3/20/11 Missing: Murphy, Shine, Kim, Sprite, Red Dog, Lottie & Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EmilyAnne Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Tonya, yes, I'm very glad Hery is on homecooked! He's such a sensitive houndie though! I started a topic through EPIL-K9 list on this, and will report what I learn if I get informational responses. Henry is still in the early stages of figuring out his dosage. So I figure if I'm gonna do the Milk Thistle, I should start now rather than after we have figured out his perfect dose? Right now we are trying 150 mg twice a day. Last increase was yesterday. (Ok'd by vet over phone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MZH Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Emily, We gave milk thistle to Cullen while he was on pheno and sodium bromide and it didn't seem to change his therapeutic levels. It *did* lower his alk phos dramatically. He went from over 1000 to 500 in just a couple of months. He was on 375 twice a day. It sure did what it was meant to do. We bought it from a local health store recommended by the vet. Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EmilyAnne Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Marcia, how long was Cullen on Milk Thistle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5blackgreys Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Not to hijack your thread but I have a foster with some high liver values and they wanted her on Milk Thistle, SammE and Vit. E. Ever since I started the supplements she stopped eating. Anyone who has used liver supplements ever have this problem? Quote , Phoenix, Okie, Casey, and Ellie the Galga; with Aggie, Alexa, Bear,Cody, Gianni V., Missy B, Babette, Bernice, and BooBoo at the Bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EmilyAnne Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Not to hijack your thread but I have a foster with some high liver values and they wanted her on Milk Thistle, SammE and Vit. E. Ever since I started the supplements she stopped eating. Anyone who has used liver supplements ever have this problem? I don't think it's hijacking at all, It's still Milk Thistle related. Someone said on the EPIL-K9 list just this morning, that long term use of Milk Thistle can suppress liver function. I am waiting to hear more replies on that hrough the list. I will share what I learn. Have you heard of l\Liver Cleansing Diet yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MZH Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Marcia, how long was Cullen on Milk Thistle? A few months; then he died from retroperitoneal hemangiosarcoma. He also had pancreatitis shortly before being dxd with the hemangio. The milk thistle didn't seem to bother his stomach at all. We switched to raw two months before the pancreatitis so that muddies the water even more. Did the raw food or the milk thistle cause his pancreatitis? We'll never know. Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EmilyAnne Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 OK, so here is what I am hearing~ There is NO evidence to support that Milk Thistle taken in proper dosage, suppresses the Liver. It ENHANCES liver function. the only way it could ever suppress Liver function is if you seriously overdose for a long period of time. There are many people on the Epil-K9 list who have been giving their dogs Milk Thistle for years and years and their livers are doing great. One lady, her vet practices BOTH holisitic and regular veterinary services, and she reccomends starting any dog on Phenobarbital on Milk Thistle at the beginning of Phenobarbital therapy to ward off any potential liver problems. Milk Thistle aids in relieving toxins, and aids in regeneration. So, conclusion? I think in proper dosing (consult your vet) there's nothing to worry about! 5Blackgreys, have you thought about starting a new thread? I noticed you haven't gotten to many answers on that yet and I bet a new thread would generate more answers. Perhaps another GT'er has been through the same experience and could really give some helpful answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5blackgreys Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Thanks Emily for the link. I'm at work today so haven't had time to be on the computer a lot but we did start home cooking for Honey with good results as far as the eating goes. I can do the fish/veggie diet with no problems. Since she stopped eating kibble all together the transition wouldn't be that hard. Will start another thread when I have a day off but in the mean time, thanks for your help. Kathy Quote , Phoenix, Okie, Casey, and Ellie the Galga; with Aggie, Alexa, Bear,Cody, Gianni V., Missy B, Babette, Bernice, and BooBoo at the Bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieAndRexsMom Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) Not to hijack your thread but I have a foster with some high liver values and they wanted her on Milk Thistle, SammE and Vit. E. Ever since I started the supplements she stopped eating. Anyone who has used liver supplements ever have this problem? I used it for myself to bring down my ALT and AST. I cut them by 2/3s in three months. My stomach never bothered me, but about a half hour after taking it, I would have a nasty belch. The I was fine. I have not used it on the dogs...yet Edited October 20, 2008 by VinnieAndRexsMom Quote Tonya, mom to May, and my angels Vinnie, Rex, Red, Chase, and Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EmilyAnne Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Some more I am hearing on the EPIL-K9 list, many whose dogs do not already have liver damage, and are just using it as a preventative, do the pulse dosage. One week on MT, one week off MT, and so on. Some say it works better that way. I'm gonna check with my vet first on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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