Spooks And Anesthesia

[NeylasMom]

My foster had her tail amputated yesterday and the vet reported she had the same reaction that Neyla did years ago when she had to be anesthetized to have a dog bite stapled. Basically, they needed to be restrained and anytime there was any sound at all, they'd start to freak out, thrashing around and in a total panic (eyes bugging out of their heads, etc.). I had to sit in a closet and restrain Neyla for several hours before she completely calmed down and call a friend to drive out to pick us up because even as we were leaving she wasn't completely normal and I couldn't trust that she'd be calm while I drove the near hour home. In the process she bit her tongue and bled a bit on me and herself.

 

The vet at the time was greyhound knowledgeable (he had his own, including one he adopted from my group) so he had used anesthesia that should have been fine, but he recommended only using propofol in the future. I am almost positive our vet used the same anesthesia for my foster yesterday. I haven't looked back at Neyla's records, but I'm pretty sure this is what she also had - isofluorane gas and diazepam to put her under. The vet made the same rec - propofol in the future.

 

I had always assumed it was just the anesthesia they used for her, but now I'm thinking this may be more of an issue of spooks just being so confused and terrified when they come out of anesthesia so I'm wondering if you have a true spook, have you encountered this issue? Was it different depending on the anesthesia or how long they were under?

 

I'm worried now that we'll have to go through this each time she has to be put under. At least it's been about 4 years and we haven't had to do it again yet. Thank god for a raw diet.

[CaliforniaGreys]

Had the same exact issue with my first girl Katie. And she was a spook. Interesting. I know they put a note in her chart about it and they would give her an injection of something that stopped that from happening. I'm so sorry I don't remember what it was, this was 8 years ago. Next time she went under for a dental...no problems.

[Guest SusanP]

Wow, this would be a good thing for people with spooks to know ahead of time, and their vets, too!

[Guest KennelMom]

Two spooks, no history of adverse reactions to anesthesia.

[Guest BradyzMommy]

when brady was getting a transfusion, my adoption rep brought in her spook to be a blood donor. after one shot, the spook was having no reaction, so they gave her one more shot. After the second shot, she bolted up, tried to bite someone, jumped off of the table and ran out into the lobby. the vet said that some dogs just have an adverse reaction. i suspect that its just harder for spooks to not be in complete control of themselves. needless to say, we ended up using greypuppyluv's phaelin instead.

[GreytNut]

Raven is a spook (more of a borderline spook these days... she's gotten better). The vet said she had a hard time going under anesthesia for her hematoma removal/dental because she struggled and fought. He didn't mention her having any particular difficulties coming back up.

 

I wonder if there's something to this.

[jenn8]

Some shy or spooky Greyhounds are more prone to developing hyperthermia from being under anesthesia. This happened to Onxy during his last dental. I don't believe he was thrashing around or anything like that but his temp. did go up to 105. The vet had to give him a muscle relaxer to help calm him down and the ride home was very scary. His eyes were bulging and he was shaking so bad, I thought he would have a heart attack.

 

He had gone under a few times before that without incident. At least not that I am aware of.

 

There could be a few different factors that trigger the reaction. Without seeing the environment they keep your dog in or knowing exactly how long they sit there before their surgery, it is hard to tell if this might be an underlying cause. Even though I made a point to tell them Onxy was shy (and I even asked if they could get him in and out as quickly as possible), I am not sure if they took what I said very seriously. They probably hear it all the time! But bringing him in at 8:00 AM and not being able to pick him up until after 4:00 PM leaves a whole lot of time for him to get all worked up.

 

Next time, I will just make sure I can bring him in right before the surgery and/or stay with him until it is his turn.

 

Jenn

[NeylasMom]

Without seeing the environment they keep your dog in or knowing exactly how long they sit there before their surgery, it is hard to tell if this might be an underlying cause.

 

Neyla was seen almost immediately when she was put under, and then had the surgery quickly thereafter. It was at the emergency vet for a dog bite, so we didn't have to wait and when they took her back, they started surgery immediately. The bite wasn't particularly traumatic for her, so I would say the visit was no more or less stressful than any other vet visit (actually, less than the ones where she has to get x-rays!). So at least for Neyla's, this wasn't the case.

[Guest Greensleeves]

Whistler had an adverse reaction to Acepromazine, which is the pre-anaesthetic sedative used by our vets. Knowing this, they cut the ace from his anaesthetic protocol, which made his recovery much more difficult (panic, pacing, etc); because he couldn't have the sedative, he woke up more quickly than recommended, before he was quite ready. He also, as he got older, took a much longer time coming "down" from any excitement--any kind of medical procedure, vet visits, thunderstorms, etc. He'd continue to pace and pant for hours afterward. He wasn't particularly spooky, although he was sensitive.

[Guest crazy4greys]

My vet gave Winnie the sedative while she was still on the floor because he could see that she was really nervous when she was in for her dental.

 

When she started to become groggy, they then put her on the table.

 

I am very grateful for that! I had sent her muzzle along because she hates to be touched by anyone else while at the vet and they were grateful for the muzzle too!

[PatricksMom]

Patrick does this coming out of anesthesia and he's not at all a spook, he loves the vet's office. His vet gives him a shot of a valium-like drug (sorry, can't remember the name), just as he comes out now, and it seems to have completely prevented it from happening.

[NeylasMom]

Patrick does this coming out of anesthesia and he's not at all a spook, he loves the vet's office. His vet gives him a shot of a valium-like drug (sorry, can't remember the name), just as he comes out now, and it seems to have completely prevented it from happening.

 

Any chance you could find out? Wondering if this isn't the same thing that cbudshome's vet used. Would be really great to know so I can talk to my vet about using it if Neyla needs to be anesthetized in the future.

[PatricksMom]

I'm out of town now, but when I get home I'll call the vet and ask. Send me a PM if you don't hear from me by next week.

[patricia]

Flashy is VERY afraid of any clinical setting. Coming out of his dentals...he thrashed...vocalized...increased temp...He had his dental at 9am and at 10pm he was still at it...Angel Sophia had her dental at noon and was home by 4pm. When we finally were able to bring him home...he was still vocalizing and walking into walls. His last dental I was very much dreading...Dr. Beth decided that they would use something else in place of the morphine that they use as part of the anesthesia protocol...VIOLA...he woke up perfect...and was able to walk and come home in the early afternoon. He was sleepy for a couple of hours and then he was back to normal. There is a note on his chart regarding his reaction to morphine.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I used to work for a vet. A lot of animals freak out when they are coming out of anesthesia, not just spooks. I think that's just the way it affects them, because they aren't fully conscious, or when they are, they don't have full muscle control yet and that scares them.

 

As for it being a more common reaction with certain anesthetics, that I don't know.

 

 

ETA: Just read the post above mine. The worst reaction we had was a kitten that had one of its hind legs amputated. It cried and thrashed and banged its head into the wall of its cage for nearly an hour. The vet said it was because of all the morphine it was on.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2008 by LindsaySF

[NeylasMom]

I used to work for a vet. A lot of animals freak out when they are coming out of anesthesia, not just spooks. I think that's just the way it affects them, because they aren't fully conscious, or when they are, they don't have full muscle control yet and that scares them.

 

Freak out briefly as they're coming out of it, or need to be restrained for hours and jumping at every movement or sound? I've never heard of it before, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but both my vet and Gwen's both seemed sort of surprised by the reaction - that's the only reason I ask. They didn't act as if this was something commonplace at all. I can certainly see it happening with other dogs and the reaction being more pronounced with fearful dogs though, especially if we're talking about a lack of full muscle control.

 

Thanks for your input - it's good to hear from the "medical" point of view. Note to self - no morphine!

[Guest LindsaySF]

Freak out briefly as they're coming out of it, or need to be restrained for hours and jumping at every movement or sound?

Both. The brief ones were more common, the animal was too weak and groggy to get their legs under them, but they kept trying, and when they slipped they got scared. The more nervous animals (spooks) took this the worst.

 

But we also had some animals that acted strange for an hour or longer after the surgery, while the meds were still in their system. They took a long time to come out of it, or they seemed to even be hallucinating.

 

I don't know how common it is, but the vets saw it often enough that they weren't overly concerned. When I first saw an animal freaking out in their recovery cage, I was concerned. I was worried that they had had a reaction to the anesthesia and had a fever (two signs of a very high fever are seizures and hallucinations). The vet told me that they see that a lot, and as long as the animal's temp was ok and it wasn't hurting itself to leave them be.

 

The kitten I mentioned above, he thrashed for over an hour. I tried to restrain him and comfort him, but my presence seemed to freak him out more and he started attacking me. He eventually calmed down, and we put him in a cage in the back row. When he was in a front row cage he would start flipping out whenever we would approach. So I do think fear had a little something to do with it in his case, but once he started thrashing he couldn't seem to stop. It was weird. And the vocalizations he was making were strange as well. I don't think he even knew he was doing it.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~