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Has Anyone Had An Intersexed Greyhound (not Hermaphrodite)?


Guest MZH

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SEE POST #27 FOR PHOTOS!

 

 

Karyotype wouldn't really tell them what to expect during the procedure. If s/he has weird chromosomes, those could manifest themselves in all kinds of different ways.

 

 

Exactly, which the researcher at the Baker Institute alludes to. Identifying karyotype or chromosomal mutations is academic (though fascinating!) - but this may be just the kind of thing Dr. Meyers-Wallen wants for her research, and may well do at a discounted (or no) cost.

 

thinking about it some more, I'll be interested to see what, if anything, the surgeon will order for pre-op imaging. Human infants are scanned up the kazoo and seen by every surgical specialty prior to reconstruction and gender assignment, but that's probably not realistic for dogs. I wonder if there are any surgeons in the southeast who are experienced in this type of reconstruction.

Edited by houndznigz

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:inlove PUPPY PHOTOS!!!! (warning: greyhound erotica ahead - includes pix of genitalia) :ph34r

 

(and Marcia also passed along the message that Perry did not have a UTI, as his culture was negative)

 

Perry comforting big sis Rita during a thunderstorm.

 

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Bath!!!??!! This wasn't in my contract! Call my agent!!!

 

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Photos below show Perry's "ambiguous genitalia".

 

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Thank you for posting pics, Jordan. Someday I'll get the Gmail photo posting problems figured out and will post photos myself. :blink:

 

Perry is doing just fine; sometimes I wonder if we really have to do any surgery at all, other than spaying or neutering or both!

 

Marcia in SC

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We call his new opening his mangina. :)

:rotfl:rotfl

 

:spoot:rotfl:rotfl

I'm glad to know I'm not the only juvenile on the board :blush

 

And boy or girl, Perry is gorgeous!!!

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"Hurricane Sandi" (Baurna to Run).

Forever missing my "Angel-With-A Crooked-Halo" Hailey, and "Mokkah" (Xpress Point) with all my heart.

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." ~~Will Rogers

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We call his new opening his mangina. :)

:rotfl:rotfl

 

:spoot:rotfl:rotfl

I'm glad to know I'm not the only juvenile on the board :blush

 

And boy or girl, Perry is gorgeous!!!

 

Thanks. I think so too. :wub:

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Guest SoulsMom

So, I've been following this and I'm now totally confused . . .Is Perry a boy or a girl? Or both? Either way, he's adorable.

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You're not confused; we still don't what Perry is either, and that's why I'm so happy s/he's just plain cute and happy. I do wish our vet would get going in this. He's talking to "specialists", whoever they are. If he doesn't come up with a plan in a day or two, I'll just have to tell him I'm calling the referral center and refer Perry myself!

 

Marcia

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We call his new opening his mangina. :)

:rotfl:rotfl

 

:spoot:rotfl:rotfl

I'm glad to know I'm not the only juvenile on the board :blush

 

Not even close. I have to say coming up with that was one of my prouder comedic moments.

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Christie and Bootsy (Turt McGurt and Gil too)
Loving and missing Argos & Likky, forever and ever.
~Old age means realizing you will never own all the dogs you wanted to. ~

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Guest SusanP

Fascinating! I guess it wouldn't matter either way, but it would be nice to know whether to call Perry "he" or "she". Also, wouldn't it be a good thing for vets to know what kind of internal organs the pup has just for future reference? I mean, in case issues came up that might target the organs of one sex or the other? :dunno

 

Perry is cute as a bug, and I imagine a dog of ambiguous sex wouldn't have any of the social difficulties a human with that condition would have. Hey, and Perry could be a nice female name, too!

Edited by SusanP
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Update on Perry's status and medical plan.

 

Our vet has checked with vets on VIN and has calls in to the local referral center as well as to the major vet schools here in the Southeast. So far, the consensus is to do the karyotyping to determine Perry's sex chromosomally and then go for a cystoscopy to get a handle on the plumbing. That will probably followed by an ultrasound and then followed up by whatever is needed to correct this, if necessary. We don't know who that would be yet.

 

The vet's not sure about the karyotyping as it's a fairly pricey test; he thinks it will be about $250. But knowing whether he is a she or a mix or both will probably help when doing the surgery. If there's no Y, they won't go looking for testicles, for example.

 

And that's all I know -- except they all think he's a she. So do I at this point, really!

 

Marcia

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Marcia, it really may be worth your while to contact the researcher from Cornell:

 

http://bakerinstitute.vet.cornell.edu/facu...page.php?id=206

 

She may be able to handle the karyotyping, and discount it for inclusion in her study, and she may be able to give you and your vet some direction.

 

According to her website, males can be carriers, but females are affected, and present as XXSR. They have "ovotestes" - both ovarian and testicular tissue.

 

Easy enough to e-mail or call her to see if she can give you some advice!

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Guest TippyTy
The vet's not sure about the karyotyping as it's a fairly pricey test; he thinks it will be about $250. But knowing whether he is a she or a mix or both will probably help when doing the surgery. If there's no Y, they won't go looking for testicles, for example.

 

Ditto the suggestion to contact the researcher at Cornell. She might do the karyotyping for you... :goodluck

 

With respect to the surgery, would they do the urinary tract "correction" (if needed) and spay/neuter all in one go? Or is a 4 month old pup too young for a spay/neuter?

 

 

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I agree with calling the geneticist at Cornell at this point. I've been reading and re-reading her papers. ANd yes, it would be lovely if the Cornell vet would help with the cost of the karyotype! Someone also gave me the name of an MD geneticist who loves to help out with animal cases. So, the resource well isn't dry yet. :)

 

I'd like to get the plumbing fixed first and deal with the s/n in a few months if there seems to be no pressing need to do it sooner.

 

In comparing the cystoscopy with the IVP I'd prefer the IVP. Much more inclusive and less physically invasive although it does involve injecting a contrast dye.

 

Even better, if Perry could get an ultrasound today we'd do it! We might get enough info from an US and not even need the IVP and the cysto.

 

Marcia

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How about Perrier? S/he actually answers to that too. :lol:

 

Seriously, things seem to be moving slowly as far as getting diagnostics done. I am not a patient woman when it comes to waiting on this sort of thing!

 

Marcia in SC

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Guest TippyTy
Seriously, things seem to be moving slowly as far as getting diagnostics done. I am not a patient woman when it comes to waiting on this sort of thing!

 

:grouphug I can only imagine.

 

But kudos to you for being so on top of everything! You really have done your research. :cheers

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Scooperoo, I'd say the spay/neuter is a moot point. Perry will almost certainly be sterile. And when (S)he has reconstruction, I suspect all likely gonadal tissue will be removed, so I doubt you'll have to schedule a separate neuter procedure. :)

 

What was interesting on the Cornell researcher's page was the photo of a grossly inflamed pyometra uterus of a bitch who had previously been identified as a normal male, but actually had both male and female components.

 

I love this stuff. :P

 

Eagerly awaiting update!

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I love this stuff too but I'd love it even more if it wasn't my dog. :P

 

It would be great if only one surgery would do it all. I've actually been told to not bother to spay because P will be sterile, but when I saw the presumed male with pyometria I thought, no thanks, there will be a spay or whatever! :sick

 

I'm calling Cornell now.....

 

Marcia

 

 

 

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Guest TippyTy
It would be great if only one surgery would do it all. I've actually been told to not bother to spay because P will be sterile, but when I saw the presumed male with pyometria I thought, no thanks, there will be a spay or whatever! :sick

 

Exactly! :nod I'd assumed P would be sterile, too. But who knows what future complications might be in store if any ambiguous internal genitalia were left intact...

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Marcia, Perrier is a delightful choice of name for Perry/Perri. I have absolutely no advice to offer but I certainly do know what you mean when you say that it would be far, far more fascinating condition to learn about if it was happening to some other dog somewhere else!

 

Keeping you guys and Perrier/Perry/Perri in my thoughts and prayers.

 

--Lucy

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Lucy with Greyhound Nate and OSH Tinker. With loving memories of MoMo (FTH Chyna Moon), Spirit, Miles the slinky kitty (OSH), Piper "The Perfect" (Oneco Chaplin), Winston, Yoda, Hector, and Claire.

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Well, I talked to the vet at Cornell. She thinks Perry/i is a female pseudohermaphrodite and that it's genetic. Well, maybe, but after talking with a woman who also has a Greyhound, Benie, who's built like Perry, I have to wonder! Benie happens to be the August dog in the CG calendar before anyone knew Benie was a she, not a he. Benie had no urinary problems so they had no reason to check down there to see if Benie was penis-free. <G> During the neuter, the vet discovered it would be a spay instead. :yikes There have been no problems and no urinary fixes/changes were needed. :banana

 

The interesting part is that there are a few parallels between the two pups. They both were from oops litters; both were adopted out as pups; all the dogs in the litter were thought to be males; both Perry and Benie have prepuces with nothing inside and no visible or palpable testicles; both pee just like boy puppies.

 

So, if Perry has no further UTIs caused by bad plumbing, we'll do nothing until it's time for the spay. In the meantime, we're looking into where to go in the event that we need to do something before that time. Oh, yes, Benie had a uterus and two lovely ovaries. No testicles were found.

 

I can't tell you how relieved I am to learn that we may have to do nothing out of the ordinary other than watch for UTIs!

 

Marcia in SC

 

ETA more info. I'm sure I'll think of something else before long!

Edited by MZH
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  • 2 weeks later...

OK, it's August 11 and nothing definitive has happened here in sleepy Upstate SC regarding diagnosing Perri/er's ambiguous peeper -- until late this afternoon.

 

Perri/er will go to Upstate Veterinary Specialists on 9/2 at 10 AM for a consult with an internist and then will probably/hopefully have the urogram, as they call it, done at the same visit.

 

They've never seen this before but then, how many vets have? ;)

 

Edited to remove all the questions I was asking about where to go, what to do, because now it's all a moot point!

 

Marcia in SC

 

 

 

Edited by MZH
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Well, I wouldn't want an IVP done by a vet who either hasn't done it before, or hasn't done it often enough to feel confident in their ability to perform and interpret it. And remember that they also want the voiding cystourethrogram.

 

One possibility is to see if there is a veterinary referral hospital near you which offers radiology services, and see if the studies can be performed there, and read by a radiologist.

 

But honestly, Scoopie, as long as Perri is stable, why not just wait until you have an appt. set up with the urology team? Often, the specialists will request particular views or studies, and if what they're looking for wasn't done correctly, they're going to want to repeat it. As long as nothing changes to make this more urgent, I'd get the appt. set up with the urologists, and either get an order from them as to the exact study they want done, or just ask that it be scheduled at the time of Perri's initial evaluation.

 

J

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