Stroke Recovery Possible?

[Guest michael_roberts]

Thanks Brian. It helps to know what to look out for. We lost a dog two years ago to kidney failure. I don't think it's ever going to get any easier to see one go.

[greyhoundlov]

Our China had a stroke. She knuckled her right rear foot for about 6 months. We worked very aggressively with her by exercising that leg several times a day. We also would straighten it up when she knuckled. The vet couldn't get over how she recovered. Unfortunately, 3 months later the osteo got her (in another leg).

[robinw]

i just want to add that my dog who recxovered from the stroke stayed at the vet's office for several days before showing any signs of recovery.it took a while, but like i posted earlier, she recovered.

[Guest michael_roberts]

Thanks again everyone for the information and encouragement. Things have gotten a little more complicated. Last night the vet got back some test results. She believes the stroke was caused by hypertension (high blood pressure), and the hypertension was caused by kidney disease. She says treatment of hypertension just involves meds and follow-up. She doens't know much about the treatment for the kidney disease yet, but can say it's likely to be meds. She said if Noza had just had a straight-forward stroke then her chances of recovery could be as good as "fair." But the kidney disease adds complication to an already complicated situation. She is going to get more info this morning. We are scheduled to meet with her and visit with Noza at 11.

[Guest ss556]

Good luck with everything this morning.

[MP_the4pack]

Although I do not have a dog that stroked, I wanted to share my Pearl with you. She has a bad heart and has been seeing a cardiologist for the past 4 yrs. It was during one of these visits that they told me her heart was doing well, but I told them that she didn't seem to feel well.

They decided to take her back and do a BP. It was skyrocketing. She immediately went on hypertensive meds. It came down tremendously but still not within the limits the cardiologist liked. In fact it continued to inch upwards over the months even with the meds.

Her hypertension was so bad that she was a very high risk anesthesia. But fear of stroke or other hypertension related problems prompted me to put her under and get a CT of her adrenals (adrenal tumors can cause hypertension). While she was under I also had an abscessed tooth removed (that was a whole 'nother thread.......she had that for a while, it was misdiagnosed).

While she was at this huge hospital, they did a urine sample and found high protein (kidney disease.) So, aspirin was added to her 14 other pills a day.

 

The final diagnosis is that the abscessed tooth caused the kidney disease, which caused the hypertension.

 

Now although she is not recovering from a stroke, I did want to tell you that at the age of 10, with all her meds, her hypertension under control now, she acts like a 5 yr old.

 

So, if your baby does recover from her stroke, there is lots of hope to handle the other two problems and hopefully prevent another stroke.

 

 

 

 

[Guest sheila]

I can't advise for recovery from stroke. I can only add my personal philosophy for consideration. While I want my dogs with me forever I know that isn't going to happen. I know that as dogs they consider the *quality* of life to be far more important than the *quantity* of it.

When I consider any extreme treatments I take much consideration into the quality of my dogs future days. Will the dog recover or am I just delaying the inevitable? Will this treatment cause other issues? (For instance some meds that help in one area have a detrimental effect in others). I also have to take into account my own limitations and factor all of the above in.

I've seen people go to great lengths to treat their canine companions and very rarely is there a positive outcome. Honestly I think sometimes people take it too far and the are results more torment than necessary.

I wish you all the best in making your choices for your dogs care

[Guest michael_roberts]

Thanks to all the latest posters; your experiences are very helpful. A lot of wisdom out there....

 

We spent two hours with Noza today. Thoughts and emotions were all over the place. At first, she seemed very, very lethargic, couldn't move anything except one eye (the other one has developed an ulcer). The doctor noted there was more she could do to our dog, but not necessarily for our dog--assuming we had unlimited time and money, so her view was pretty clear (which I appreciated).

 

The doctor and her assistant left us alone with Noza for 20 minutes or so and Noza almost dozed off; her good eye rolled back and she may have been dreaming. For awhile, she was so still I wondered if she was just going to stop breathing. We talked about letting her go and decided it was time.

 

Doctor came back. We talked some more. Got Noza up on her feet to see how she would respond. She couldn't support herself. All this seemed like confirmation. We decided we wanted to spend a little more time with her, so the doctor left us for another half hour.

 

Strangely, after Noza had been propped up, she seemed more awake. We continued to pet her, massage her, talk to her. We tried to get her front elbows under her and get her to hold her head up, but she was too weak to manage so we let her back down. About five minutes later she suddenly sat upright by herself with no assistance! She still couldn't lift her head; her nose rested on the cushion, so I supported her chin. We offered her some water in a bowl and she lapped up a good bit of it. Hope, finally!

 

The doctor and assistant came back in and we reported to the doctor. The doctor was impressed Noza was doing more for us than she had seen her do the last couple of days when we weren't there. We talked more about her condition and options and finally decided to go ahead with more diagnostics on her possible kidney trouble--an ultrasound exam, hopefully this afternoon, and a consult with an internal medicine doctor. If we get a good report and can figure out treatment for possible kidney and BP problem, then we are going to try to bring her home for a few days, monitor her fluid intake and work with her for a few days and see if she can make progress at home. Of course she may or may not; time will tell. But we've been encouraged by the recovery stories you all have shared, and we think she needs more time to see whether and how far she can come back.

 

So, Death has been stayed for at least another day; no "in memorium" yet!

 

One more thing: Just before we left, we tried very hard to get Noza to do all she could to support herself while standing. Her back legs look pretty good, but she still looks like she has no balance as far as her front end goes. Her neck is looking better--more straight. For the briefest instant she actually put weight on both front legs, even the right front that has been curled up, so that was a very encouraging sign.

[robinw]

sounds like you had a good visit. that's great news

[Guest fastdogs]

Sounds like she still has some fight left in her. She might do a little better at home. It's hard for everyone when you have to leave them behind.

 

Continued wished for a complete recovery for Noza.

[Guest GreytMuse]

You all are in my thoughts -- please continue to keep us updated.

[Devotion]

lots and lots of prayers for Noza. She is still wanting to fight. Keep us updated. Our Hans had a stroke and it was horrible. He did gain a lot of strength back and was able to walk. He always drug his back feet a bit so he kept his nails filed on his own. He lived another 2 years. I am greytful we were able to help him. He wanted to live and was able to enjoy himself.

[Tallgreydogmom]

Does your vet use Azodyl for kidney disease? It has made a world of difference for my 16 year old with kidney failure. I have added the information before for people to read in case you have not heard abou it. You can purchase it online

 

 

Azodyl Renal Function Support Through Enteric Dialysis.

 

Azodyl 3-PACK is a breakthrough veterinary product. Azodyl helps to slow down uremic toxin buildup. It also help to prevent further kidney damage by providing natural Enteric Dialysis through the use of beneficial bacteria that support kidney function.

The treatment choice of azotemia in dog and cats with acute or chronic kidney disease.

Patented formula of naturally-occurring beneficial bacteria that metabolizes and flushes out uremic toxins that have diffused into the bowel as a result of increased toxin levels in the blood.

Easy-to-administer

Can be used with other treatments and/or products, such as Epakitin.

Enteric-coated capsules.

 

[Guest vahoundlover]

Keeping Noza in my prayers.

[Guest ss556]

Praying for Noza.

[Guest Cris_M]

Michael,

Just wanted to add that one of my friends just went through this with her grey -- reading about Noza sounded so much like Little Bit's experience that it was creepy. It took Little Bit 5 full days to get better in any meaningful way. Both the vet and my friend were afraid that her time had come. However, once the dosage of Valium was decreased and Little Bit started to try to control her limbs, things got a lot better quickly. She is now home and fine.

 

I sincerely hope that Noza does beautifully and you soon have your girl back happy and healthy.

[Guest michael_roberts]

Thanks Cris! We are continuing to hope!

We got Noza home yesterday afternoon and settled her on one of her favorite cushtions. Her adopted brother Star was glad to see her!

 

We had a rough night; Noza whined and sat up (elbows only) and lay back down almost continuously. We thought she might be too hot since we had put a waterproof (vinyl) mattress cover and a blanket over her cushion. Of course, just after we removed the waterproof cover, she finally let go with her bladder. We now think she was just distressed about not being able to urinate outside. Fortunately, we've got several greyhound-sized cushions on hand!

 

She has been calmer since daybreak. She ate well and drank this morning. My wife, Theresa, is feeding Noza out of her hand--a/d canned food from the vet. Noza can lap and swallow pretty well all things considered.

 

So, we are playing the waiting game. We're at Day 6 and hoping for improvement any time.

[robinw]

i'm so glad she's home. it seems like things are going relatively well i'm looking forward to updates.

[MP_the4pack]

It already sounds like she's improving. From what you told us, she just barely moved while at the vets.

 

Keeping fingers and paws crossed here.

 

 

[Devotion]

continued prayers for Noza

[Guest michael_roberts]

Yes, MP, the neurologist at the vet hospital said Noza wouldn't even open her eyes for them at the hospital, then we would show up and Noza would make the doctors "look silly." So Noza definitely has been more responsive for us.

 

We are very cautiously a tiny bit optimistic. Noza is, at times, holding her head straighter and even moving slightly to the left instead of her neck constantly turning to the right side. We've had her on her feet three times so far today. She tires very quickly, but she is doing a little better about supporting her weight. I even managed to turn loose of her front end for a brief moment and she didn't collapse. She's still knuckling under with her feet quite a bit, but we are seeing some slight improvement.

 

Yesterday I learned how to express her bladder, so we've got control over when she pees. (It still distresses her to urinate in the house though, even when we are encouraging her to. We've heard some dogs are too dignified or well-trained to do so. Stresses them out.) Today, I carried her outside twice to stand and both times we helped her to stand with support as long as she could before we felt her muscles start to give out. We even managed to help her urinate outside.

 

Noza is still eating and drinking well, so we are encouraged that she is keeping her strength up. Her eye is better. And she is resting more comfortably today.

 

She still likes to lay on her left side only and we have to battle her to keep her on her right side so she won't develop pressure sores. She also is still getting up on her elbows, turning to the right, a lot. The vet said this would be good--help her breathe and keep oriented, so we are encouraging her to move as much as she can on her own.

 

We also noticed a little more movement in her back legs when she sits up and a wider range of motion--even crossing over her back legs with her nose when she sits up and turns.

 

So, overall, maintenance is going well and we are still waiting (hoping) for more improvement in her ability to coordinate her legs.

 

The doctor gave us a handout when we checked out on Thursday that describes symptoms of a brain stem stroke (vascular accident):

Head and neck pain

Problems with reflexes of the head and face

Altered states of consciousness

Weakness in all four legs

Postural defects

Head tilt and back and forth eye movements

 

These pretty much describe Noza earlier in the week. She's still showing the weakness in all four legs. I'm not sure what "postural defects" is referring to, but her tendency to hold her head to the right and downward at an awkward angle is still there. I think she is much improved on the head and neck pain, altered states of conciousness, and back and forth eye movements.

 

The handout is from veterinarypartner.com, and is titled Vascular Accident in the Brain.

[Devotion]

continued good thoughts for your sweet Noza and for you. Keep the faith that she will continue to improve.

[Guest Amy_Bee]

My Gretchen (aged 3 at the time) had a stroke in May 2007. It was called an FCE. She was just acting strange at first; then her legs started to tremble, so I brought her to the vet. By the time we got there, she was weaving like she was drunk, and when we went inside, she collapsed and soon couldn't breathe. It was pure luck that I had her at the vet already-- if she had been alone in my apartment or even with me, she probably would have died.

 

She got oxygen and regained her ability to breathe on her own within hours, but she was paralyzed from the neck down. I got _very_helpful advice from the people here at Greytalk, but it was agonizing, because the vet kept saying she could die, or never walk again, or fully recover. I didn't want her to spend her life not being able to walk-- such a young dog.

 

The good news is that I brought her to the neurologist, where she began to improve. Within 1.5 weeks, she could walk with the help of a sling (by the way, Burpdog sent me a sling, and I can send it to you if you need it). Within 3-4 weeks, she could walk slowly on her own. Now, she's fine. The only thing is that she's a bit clumsy when she runs, but I don't even know if that's the stroke or just her!

 

I'm keeping you in my thoughts. I know how hard it is to go through something like this.

[Guest vahoundlover]

Keeping Noza in my prayers.

[Guest michael_roberts]

Thanks, Amy! That's so encouraging!

 

Thought those of you following Noza's story might like to see a picture of her. This is Noza on the right (grey face) and her adopted brother, Star.

-Michael

 

Star and Noza