Curbing Leash Reactivity

[Guest Giselle]

I finally got the chance to take a video

 

Synopsis:

I'm working with a lady and her fear aggressive Peke mix. I, of course, am handling my leash reactive dobe. I'm using the Look at That! game which is explained briefly in the video. The other gal is not (yet).

 

It gets a little repetitive in the middle, but you can see how close I can get and not cross my dog's threshold. As well, at around 1:40, a couple walks by with their JRTs and you can see the difference between a dog taught with LAT and a dog that has not been taught with LAT. So, here it is!

[Guest Amy_Bee]

Thanks for posting that.

 

I'm confused about something, though-- why is it a good idea to teach your dog that it's okay to look straight at another dog? In the dog world, staring is confrontational, and that's how the trouble begins. At the dog park, the dogs look at one another, but never head on. Same thing on leashes for polite dogs. They approach sideways and sniff politely.

[Guest Giselle]

Basically, the LAT game is geared to get your dog to focus and pay attention to you. Traditional methods of telling the dog to ignore the trigger have proven quite futile for some people. So, the LAT game is engineered to allow your dog to see and acknowledge the trigger, and then place its focus back on you - voluntarily.

 

It surely isn't alright to stare at a dog, but reactive dogs, especially, need to see their trigger and be comfortable in the presence. So we let them do it. A stare is indeed one of the first signs of aggravation, but one should never work his/her dog at a full-blown stare (which is indicative that you've passed the threshold). So it all boils down to knowing your dog's threshold and knowing when to back off and when to praise. If your dog is looking and you click and the dog responds, you're good. If you click and your dog is completely ignorant of you, it's a good idea to step back.

[gracegirl]

That's really nice work....great example! I'm sure lots will be interested in this video. Are you clicking when your dog looks back at you, or when your dog is looking at another dog without reacting? (Neither of mine are leash reactive, I'm just curious.)

[silverfish]

Thanks - that's a great video - and it's just what we did with Jack, only minus the clicker!

 

He was HIGHLY 'leash reactive' when we got him, although I'm not sure it was aggression in his case, I think he was just wildly excited to see other dogs. He'd lived with an old lady and we are pretty sure he never got out much, if at all. But I just kept a pocket full of treats and started making him look at me and treating as soon as I spotted a dog coming our way. Like your girl, he soon got to anticipate and look for the treat in the presence of another dog, and over two years later he still does!

 

It took us a long time to train Jack out of his wild excitement, possibly because he was older (he nearly ten years old when we got him), possible because I was just doing it on daily walks and not in a training environment with a co-operative small dog/owner combo. But we took the dogs for a walk just yesterday in a big and busy country park where there were a ton of dogs. At one point we passed a couple with a whole litter of chihuahua pups on the grass (the idiots had brought them for an airing in a shopping cart!), with the two parent dogs yapping at ours walking past, AND THEN a couple walked past us on the other side with two JRTs going nuts for the pups. We had a little moan from Jack at the height of the excitement, but no pulling, no hard staring and .. he immediately turned round and looked at my pocket! Yes, he got a treat.

 

Thanks for posting that.

 

I'm confused about something, though-- why is it a good idea to teach your dog that it's okay to look straight at another dog? In the dog world, staring is confrontational, and that's how the trouble begins. At the dog park, the dogs look at one another, but never head on. Same thing on leashes for polite dogs. They approach sideways and sniff politely.

 

Baby steps. You can't expect to stop the whole gamut of excited behaviour at once with a dog like this. It's a minor miracle if you can get them to pay attention to you at all in the early stages. You reward at each tiny improvement, and then you keep moving the goalposts.

[Guest Amy_Bee]

But I just kept a pocket full of treats and started making him look at me and treating as soon as I spotted a dog coming our way. Like your girl, he soon got to anticipate and look for the treat in the presence of another dog, and over two years later he still does!

 

We had a little moan from Jack at the height of the excitement, but no pulling, no hard staring and .. he immediately turned round and looked at my pocket! Yes, he got a treat.

 

It sounds to me like you're doing the Patricia McConnell "Watch me" thing-- not Giselle's thing. Unless I'm understanding wrong, Giselle gives a treat when the dog looks at the other dog. Maybe I'm understanding wrong?

[Batmom]

It sounds to me like you're doing the Patricia McConnell "Watch me" thing-- not Giselle's thing. Unless I'm understanding wrong, Giselle gives a treat when the dog looks at the other dog. Maybe I'm understanding wrong?

 

Properly executed, they're the same.

 

Giselle's dog *is* watching her and watching for the treat. Note, tho, that she's not having her dog turn away from the other dog. She's doing, "See? Look at that! So what? I've got the treats and that's just a stupid dog over there, big deal, wanna treat?"

 

If your dog's problem is fear-based, asking him/her to turn his back on the source of fear can make it worse.

 

And, timing is important. You want to make sure you're not rewarding the dog for getting overexcited. Curiosity is OK, keeping an eye on the threat is OK, being a boob is not OK .....

 

 

ETA: I think maybe where folks get in trouble with the "watch me" concept is, some trainers (!!!?!) interpret it as having the dog stare at his/her person for long moments, to the exclusion of other things. Nope nope nope nope. A glance is good enough.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Batmom

[silverfish]

ETA: I think maybe where folks get in trouble with the "watch me" concept is, some trainers (!!!?!) interpret it as having the dog stare at his/her person for long moments, to the exclusion of other things. Nope nope nope nope. A glance is good enough.

 

Yep - Catch the moment.

[Guest GretaDad]

Thanks for posting this. It was interesting. How long have you been working with your dobie to get him to this stage in training?

[grey14me]

what a beautiful dobie! so nice to see normal ears and a tail!!

[rascalsmom]

Giselle, I just have a couple of questions that you may be able to answer. I really want to try this with Buddy. However, I walk all three of my dogs at once, by myself 99% of the time. So, I don't really have a spare hand for the clicker. Do you think I could use another "signal", maybe a word, or a finger snap? Buddy already responds to finger snapping to an extent. Also, I have to come up with a really great treat, any recommendations? I may have trouble with the two girls mauling me when they see Buddy getting a treat, though... We're headed out for a walk soon, I may just put a handful of Goldfish crackers in my pocket in case we see another dog....lacking any other small easy to carry treat....

[Batmom]

Forgot to mention earlier : GREAT video! Thanks very much for taking the trouble to make it and post it.

[Guest Giselle]

Thanks, Batmom! You explained it perfectly and did so without being overly wordy (as I'm sure I would have been )

 

I will admit, however, that I wasn't as strict with the eye-contact as I usually am. Reason being, I didn't have a "cameraman" for the end portion of the video, so I was more concerned with making sure I was in the camera window than if my dog was giving me eye contact. My fault!

 

Gracegirl, I'm clicking when she looks at the dog without reacting. Eye contact is one of her default behaviors, so she's supposed to give it to me before a treat. It's like a chain of behaviors, really. Eventually, when she sees a strange dog, her first reaction should be to reorient back to me (although you can see that I wasn't as strict with the eye contact as I should have been).

 

GretaDad, I've been using LAT for about 2-3 weeks. For the purposes of the video, however, I pushed her past her threshold to show everybody that she really is reactive It's still a work in progress, though.

 

Rascalsmom, is it at all possible to jump start your training with Buddy only? I think it's best to do a few sessions with Buddy only, and then walk him as normal. And instead of the clicker, a verbal cue like "Yes!" or "Good!" is perfectly fine. I know a *fabulous* trainer who uses a verbal cue instead of the clicker, and it works just as well. I'm just slow with words As for treats, I use cubed chicken or, for the dobergirl, apples (she has a fetish for them). I'd suggest food rolls like Redbarn or Natural Balance and using a bait bag: http://www.jjdog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv...de=1CATBAITBAGS

[gracegirl]

Thanks Giselle. I guess I was looking a the beautiful dog rather than focusing on the exact thing you were clicking for. I've been thinking of clicker training Fenway. Any thoughts on clicker training one, but not both, of your dogs??? Grace is a certified therapy dog and a Canine Good Citizen, and I'd like Fenway to get there one day. He's really good, but still young so gets excited. He drives me bonkers passing two houses on our walk where the dogs run the fence line aggressively. We've been doing "look"....but I'd like to try your way instead of mine where he ignores the dog. Grace is a great example because she just walks by and ignores them. Anyhow, you've done a great job with your dog and I wish you much future success!

Edited January 29, 2008 by gracegirl

[Guest Giselle]

Hmm, I realized that I've muddied it up some, but just for future clarification, the Look at That! game is really supposed to be a game. The act of looking at the other dog is supposed to be a trick just like "sit" or "down". I think I muddied that up a little, but everything said before is all interconnected: you just want a dog who is relaxed and focused in the presence of its trigger

 

Gracegirl, you mean the peke mix in the video? She isn't mine She's also scared of the clicker, so I'm working with her owner to find a marker. We're thinking about using a snapple cap or something. In cases with rude neighbor dogs, I just ask for a loose leash from my dog (she has the same problem, no surprise). If a dog can control itself enough to maintain a loose leash, it's in the right, focused mode of mind. What I do is just practice loose leash exercises in front of the trigger. Figure 8's, zig zags, circles, varying my speed, etc. Whenever she reorients back to me, she gets a c/t. Whenever she starts losing focus, I'll step the other way and do a figure 8 or something. Giselle just kind of tags along with this grumpy face on

[Guest cleo570]

This is great! And very timely - I have just started the same drill with our new rescued Dobe, Bogart. Leash reactivity is his only major problem (that's I've discovered so far, at least.)

 

Thanks!!!

[Guest angel]

Just new to forum. I own a clicker but I never used it until yesterday after I saw the video and my grey is responding to it already. Took him for a walk last night and distracted him somewhat from growling and pulling towards two huskies by using "watch me" and clicker at the same time. (He knows "watch me" means treats) Pulling him back on the leash and tapping him on the snout has never worked so I hope the clicker and treats method works. I was very impressed with Giselle's dobe's progress! My grey was such a timid dog. We've had him for a year now, and with his growing confidence he has developed an aggressive reaction to dogs he meets on the street (other than small fluffy dogs, standard poodles and greyhounds. He accepts all dog breeds if they come to visit in our home however!) This video has given me hope - I know it won't be overnight, but with baby steps I hope to achieve the success that Giselle has had with her dog!

 

 

[Guest MomofSweetPotatoes]

You are excellent with the clicker!! Great video. Thanks for posting it.

[Xan]

Oh! I missed that you posted this! Thanks so much for doing that. It's a great video!

 

Okay, turns out that's what I was doing with Pogo before! I use a verbal cue rather than a clicker, though I have toyed with a squeeker, and that works well, too.

 

So, the chain of behavior goes like this? 1. Look at me: click-treat. 2. Look at the dog: click - look at me - treat. 3. Look at the dog, look at me: click-treat. Is that the training route?

 

For dogs who don't like a clicker, if you have a squeeker from a toy (or a replacement squeeker - I bought a bag full before I realized they don't stay IN the toy's long enough to justify putting them in there! ), you can palm that like Giselle is doing with the clicker. You have that and the treats in the same hand, right? So, if you have multiple dogs to handle at one time, you can hold the SHORT leash of the trainee and the noise marker and treats all in one hand, and the other leashes in the other hand. It's juggling! But, I've done it in a pinch. I prefer to walk with DH so I can concentrate more on Pogo, even if I do have one other calmer dog in the other hand.

 

Question for those of you who've done this for awhile: Does there come a time when you can walk all the way past the triggering situation and only treat afterwards, or only praise? Or, must you always and forever have treats at the ready? Will the good behavior go away if not food-rewarded every single time for eternity?

[Guest Giselle]

Almost! I'm sorry; I've muddied it up a bit. You want the dog to offer a look at the other dog as a 'trick'. So: dog looks at other dog = click, your dog reorients back to you when it hears the click, and then you treat. After a few repetitions, the dog should start offering you a look at the dog as a trick and then look back at you. The dog will be expecting a click when it looks at the other dog. So if you've ever shaped a behavior with the clicker before you'll know how it progresses. For example, when you shape a behavior, the dog attempts to do the trick and then looks back at you, expecting the click.

 

The best example is during the first few seconds when I actually had a "cameraman" filming me. After treating her, Ivy looked at me, trying to figure out what the heck I was clicking for. After thinking for a few seconds, she glanced at the other dog, and I click/treated. That's really how it should progress.

 

Eventually, I think you could definitely phase out the treats. However, once the dog understands the trick, I think jackpotting would be best

 

ETA: You also want to load the clicker beforehand, so you could click/treat the dog for looking at you before you introduce the trigger. That's what I usually do, too!

Edited February 9, 2008 by Giselle

[Xan]

Thanks. Now, to remind me (I know I've read it before, but others might not have), what's "jackpotting", in this context?

[lovinggreysslp]

Wow, watching that video was very helpful! Thanks for taking the time to make it and post it for all of us!

[RobinM]

This is a very good and informative video. The problem lays where there is more than one dog, like in our case 4 dogs on a walk and one dog has fear aggression towards non greys. Clicking would arrouse the other dogs curiousity so that wouldn't work.

The behavioist we are using has designed a "Snoot loop" to help out in these types of situations which also has to be used when we have Teddy alone. Trying to work with the aggressor when you have others with you is not really workable!!!

[Xan]

Robin, not to undermine what your behaviorist is doing with you guys at all, but just throwing in my own experience with walking four dogs, one who's aggressive towards other dogs (Pogo), and one who's ... bad mannered (Wabi! ). It's a challenge, and I much prefer to have DH walk with us so he can manage at least two other dogs, but I've done all four solo. I have Pogo on my right (my more coordinated side! ) and the others all on the left. I always keep everyone on super short leashes, so I don't have to reel anyone in or risk losing control of a dog 4 feet away. That way, I can use my Pogo-hand to control him, and feed him treats out of my treat pouch. I don't click, but I bet you could work that in somehow... Maybe only click-train the problem dog? Use some other cue for the other dogs?

 

Also, this article (thanks, KennelMom) was pretty enlightening to me about using "snoot-loop" type head collars, which I'd been using with two of my four.

[RobinM]

Great thanks! Any and all advice welcome.