NeylasMom Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 So yesterday my friends, who watched my pups the previous night, reported that Neyla woke them up around 2 am nuzzling their hand and whining. Neyla NEVER does anything but sleep through the night so they recognized something was up, figured she had to potty and tried to take her outside. They said that she seemed very disoriented and unwilling to go and when she went outside, she walked in a few circles around their deck rather than going down the stairs into the yard, and then eventually peed on the deck. Last night, around the same time, she got up. I was in the bathroom (had been for some time, some kind of food poisoning I think ) so I saw her walk past the door a couple of times. Eventually called her in. She did come in, but seemed a bit out of it, reluctant to come all the way over to me and kept looking around a bit frantically. So I struggled out of the bathroom to watch her and she proceeded to walk or trot around sniffing incessantly for something, then she'd stop and look around in a sort of paranoid fashion. Something definitely wasn't normal - she was at least somewhat aware, eyes weren't glazed over at all and she would recognize when I'd talk to her, but she wouldn't come to me immediately when I called. So I went to the bottom of the stairs and called her to take her out in my best happy voice. At that point she seemed to snap out of it, we went outside, she pottied and then she went back to bed. All is well today. Obviously 2 incidents isn't much, and I know Zuri come out of the bedroom to see what I was doing woke her up. I'm going to keep the bedroom door closed for a few nights so I'm sure to wake up if anything like this happens again, but I'm wondering if anyone has experienced anything like this. I would wonder if she weren't just hungry, but the somewhat paranoid behavior and tuning me out would seem odd if it were just that. FYI, Neyla is about to turn 9. She's been on 2 - 50 mg tabs of Tramadol twice a day for a couple of months, and 2 weeks ago we started her on weekly Adequan injections (although until this morning she hadn't had one since Thursday), and at the same time upped her glucosamine/chondroitin to 4 tablets/day (so 1200 mg gluc/day and 800 mg chondr). Doesn't seem to me any of that would be related but mentioning anything I can think of. Any ideas? I'm not overly worried, but something definitely wasn't right - it's that mommy 6th sense telling me. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yeah...dogs will do that as they get old, but honestly, 9 isn't that old, and I wouldn't expect to see dementia setting in at that age. Maybe put a call in to Dr. G. and see what she says? Is she like Dr. K. in that she'lll give advice via email? I'd say contact Dr. K., but she's out this week through the 17th. Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey14me Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I agree that 9 doesn't seem old enough for it to be age related...why is she on tramadol? Quote Michelle...forever missing her girls, Holly 5/22/99-9/13/10 and Bailey 8/1/93-7/11/05 Religion is the smile on a dog...Edie Brickell Wag more, bark less :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 I agree that 9 doesn't seem old enough for it to be age related...why is she on tramadol? Unidentified toe issues. I've posted about them before (probably too many to recount). In a nutshell, she's had issues with toes on both back feet, perhaps unrelated, perhaps related. Last doc thinks it's just OA. There is some bone deterioriation and no other indications of other problems (got the all clear on cancer for example). I need to get back to my orthopedist, but Dr. Radcliffe recommended upping her chondr/gluc and keeping her on the Tramadol, plus he gave us the Adequan injections. The tramadol does allow her to take walks that she'd otherwise not want to go on. She's a mystery. None of her illnesses or injuries have EVER been simple. A limp that she had for 8 months before it went away - we just suspected a really bad muscle tear. Acute kidney failure that somehow resolved, never figured that one out. Then the toe issues, and now this weird behavior. Well, at least if history repeats itself, this will all eventually go away as well. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey14me Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 do you think it could be a side effect of the medication? I know she's been on it a while, but maybe it's some kind of building-up of something... the only other think I can think of, is if a dog is in pain, they can be very unsettled, often roaming around the house... Quote Michelle...forever missing her girls, Holly 5/22/99-9/13/10 and Bailey 8/1/93-7/11/05 Religion is the smile on a dog...Edie Brickell Wag more, bark less :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DogNite Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 my boy, who will turn 14 in May, definitely has periods of confusion, and panic! He will walk into a corner of the room, and can't figure out how to turn around..... I have to really watch him... Lucky for me, I work at home, and can cater to his every whim (he has me well trained!) Quote lorinda, mom to the ever revolving door of Foster greyhounds Always in my heart: Teala (LC Sweet Dream) , Pepton, Darbee-Do (Hey Barb) , Rascal (Abitta Rascal), Power (Beyond the Power), and the miracle boy LAZER (2/21/14), Spirit (Bitter Almonds) 8/14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 do you think it could be a side effect of the medication? I know she's been on it a while, but maybe it's some kind of building-up of something... the only other think I can think of, is if a dog is in pain, they can be very unsettled, often roaming around the house... I wondered that. I joked to Turbotaina that it sort of seemed like she was high, and Tramadol is an opiate. But she's on such a low dose. I am going to call my vet if it happens again. The thing about the timing is that she's actually been feeling better the last couple of days. She was really playful last night and this morning, which she hasn't been for a while. Not eliminating pain as a possibility though - filing all of this away in case I do need to call my vet. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It almost sounds like what we went through with Ace a year or so ago. She'd wake us up in the middle of the night, acting like she needed to go outside. Once outside, she'd wander around aimlessly...sniffing everything. She'd go potty but would then continue to wander (not like her to not come in as soon as she was done)...sniffing the whole time, as if she was trying to smell her way back to the deck, like she was lost. Then she walked into the side of the deck thinking it was the stairs and then I knew something was wrong. We think she'd had some petit mal seizures and this behavior was her post ictal state. She was whining because she was confused and probably hungry (I've been told that their blood sugar levels drop drastically after a seizure). Turns out her thyroid was low, she's been on meds and we haven't had any more incidents like that. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Turns out her thyroid was low, she's been on meds and we haven't had any more incidents like that. How old was she when this happened? Had she ever had her thyroid checked before? Pretty sure I had a full thyroid panel done on Neyla when I adopted her about 4 years ago, but I know thyroid function can be affected by other illnesses, or maybe it can change over time? Another topic for discussion with my vet. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SusanP Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I don't know if this has anything to do with anything, but our angel Simon did something like this at age 9 and 10. She always seemed rather frail and old before her time. At night she'd fall asleep in the living room and then wake in the middle of the night and stand near the hall crying softly until I got up and called her or escorted her to bed in our room. I never knew if it was because she didn't see well in the dimly lit hallway or if she was confused. She gave this up in her last year and eventually died because of an undiagnosed neurological problem characterized by tremors and loss of leg function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 YES! Onyx was 8 with the first time I saw it. (she's now 12) She went to Dr. Glass in Red Bank for an MRI. Her brain was okay, by process of elimination he said they were seisures. But not bad enough to do anything other than observe. She would have several in a month.....go a couple of years without any, have one, ...... very irregular. She usually came out of it within 1/2 hr. But after reading some posts here, I think there is a sleep disorder. This has always happened when Onyx woke up. Never just came on while she was awake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Turns out her thyroid was low, she's been on meds and we haven't had any more incidents like that. How old was she when this happened? Had she ever had her thyroid checked before? Pretty sure I had a full thyroid panel done on Neyla when I adopted her about 4 years ago, but I know thyroid function can be affected by other illnesses, or maybe it can change over time? Another topic for discussion with my vet. It was about 2 years ago...so, she was 4. I had never had her thyroid checked before...when I posted here about her behavior a few people suggested I have her thyroid checked. Also her occiput bone (at the back of the head) on the left side was out of place...chiro said that that alone can cause seizures and a problem with the thyroid! From what I understand these are kind of a "watch and wait" type seizure, meaning I doubt they would put a dog on phenobarb or any other seizure med for random petit mals, but definitely worth it to have the thyroid checked. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmc333 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Years ago,we had a little terrier that had petite mal seizures frequently. She had one grand mal seizure episode when she was about 2, and then had the little ones for the next 8 years off and on. She'd wake up, totally not knowing where she was, who we were, or anything. It was so sad to see her that lost looking. You could tell by her eyes how confused she was. We used to just pick her up and either hold her or put her on her bed and tell her to go back to sleep. She'd fall asleep and nap for a while and then she awoke she was her normal self. It only happened when she was sleeping and woke up. That was the advice the vet gave us, since her seizures were so mild. She had them up till she died of unrelated causes. --Connie== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EmilyAnne Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Maybe a midnight snack would help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 So Neyla did it again Friday night while we were camping. This time my boyfriend was with me so I woke him up (he's a good BF!) so he could see it as well and give me some input. It was the same thing, paranoid looking around and frantic sniffing that wouldn't stop. Eventually I took her outside - she pooped immediately, then wanted to come right back inside. I thought she might still need to pee, but she froze up and wouldn't walk anymore so we went back inside. She went right to bed and that was that. I called our vet today and left a message. Hopefully she'll call me back in the morning. One other thing to note - this morning her stomach was rumbling like crazy. I've heard that a few other times, a few times when she was just hungry, and then the time that she got into a friend's garbage can and helped herself to some feminine products (totally disgusting). She had a bit of trouble passing them and in the interim had some stomach gurgling and diarrhea. But Neyla's stomach is totally fine, she's pottying normally and had a normal firm bowel movement this morning. So I suppose it's possible hunger could be waking her up, but it doesn't explain the disorientation and strange sniffing. There's also no good explanation for her hunger - she's at an ideal weight and is getting a bit more food than usual if anything. Sorry, I know my post is long as usual. I'm just really stumped, and worried. Will post when I hear from my vet, but I just don't know what she's going to be able to tell us. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotaina Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Huh. Have you emailed Dr. K? Maybe she has some ideas... Quote Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) Have you looked at the side effects of Tramadol? 200mg a day (did I interpret that right - qty 2 @50MG 2x per day) for a long time seems like the high end of the range, (2-5mg/kg) but then it's not my toe that hurts Hope she (and you) get some relief from all of this soon! Edited January 14, 2008 by Cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Have you looked at the side effects of Tramadol? 200mg a day (did I interpret that right - qty 2 @50MG 2x per day) for a long time seems like the high end of the range, (2-5mg/kg) but then it's not my toe that hurts Hope she (and you) get some relief from all of this soon! Well no, because I am dumb. Tramadol is toward the top of my possible list of offenders, but b/c she's on a low dose (she only gets 1 50 mg tablet twice a day so 100 mg/day total) I though it unlikely. However, I just looked it up and found this: Side Effects * If a pet develops apparent sedation or bizarre behavior, the tramadol dose should be reduced. * Upset stomach is occasionally observed with tramadol. * Side effects are generally considered rare. * Pupil constriction and panting may occur with use of this medication. * Decreased heart rate may result but should not be problematic. * Constipation may be a side effect. Overdose may mainfest as seizures, pinpoint pupils, and mental alterations. Seek veterinary assistance at once should this occur. I just had a thought that maybe this is happening when I give the doses too close together. My schedule has been erratic lately and since I don't feed twice a day I don't always give the meds at the exact same time. Hmm, will have to try to figure out when I gave her her meds the days this has happened. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) This might be way out in left field since I don't have all the details, but was amputating the offending toe ever an option? Most dogs do just fine without a toe and maybe she'd be better off! Again, excuse this if the avenue has been explored or it's just not an option. Sounds like you found some good information on the tramadol...hope you can find some answers soon! Edited January 15, 2008 by krissn333 Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest houndlover Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Sounds like the tramadol might be the culprit! I really hope that is all that it is. My older boy, Billy, has what the vet thinks are petit mal seizures and the confusion and waking up in a daze sounds like the after effects Billy's seizures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Well I just got off the phone with my vet and she thinks it's just gas, lol. Apparently upping her glucosamine/chondroitin could definitely cause this and she said she's seen dogs with bad gas pains acting the way Neyla has been. And when she said it, I remembered that Neyla has had terrible gas one or two days this past week which is incredibly unusual for her. In fact, I can't remember the last time she had gas. That, coupled with the stomach growling, all seems to fit. So I'm going to make sure she gets the chondro-flex with some food and also give her gas-x before bed and see what happens. Man, I will be really happy if that's all this is, but I will certainly feel like a total dolt!!! Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey14me Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 is the chondro-flex a human product? there was someone on here (I'll let her chime in if she wants) who was giving a human glucosamine product and her pup started losing weight...I believe it gave him a stomach ache and he just didn't want to eat... Quote Michelle...forever missing her girls, Holly 5/22/99-9/13/10 and Bailey 8/1/93-7/11/05 Religion is the smile on a dog...Edie Brickell Wag more, bark less :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zookiesmom Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I was on tramadol for pain, and I know humans are different, but I found it affected my sleep in such a way that I was always kinda half awake. It can cause seizures in high doses as well. It works great for pain, but really makes you feel weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 is the chondro-flex a human product? there was someone on here (I'll let her chime in if she wants) who was giving a human glucosamine product and her pup started losing weight...I believe it gave him a stomach ache and he just didn't want to eat... It's a dog product. It's what Dr. Radcliffe recommends as a cost-effective alternative to Cosequin (but still with good quality control). I didn't give her Tramadol last night or this morning, but I'm concerned about how she'll do with her toes on no pain meds. If she seems to be doing okay, my plan is to do the gas-x and the additional small meal with the second dose of chondro-flex for a few days and if we don't have any problems, I will start giving the Tramadol again to see what happens. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MorganKonaAlex Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Just FYI - my boy Morgan is one who doesn't tolerate Tramadol (or any other opiate based pain reliever). He gets restless, starts pacing and panting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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