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How Does Osteo Present Itself?


Guest Hokiebuck
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Guest Hokiebuck

Cash might have been limping the slightest possible (not enough to really notice) for the past few days. But he has been playing and galloping around. So I didn't think much of it. Well today we went for a 45 min walk (which isn't unusual). I get home and he goes to sleep. About an hour later he gets up and is barely putting weight on it. It did get better with walking and he was able to jump in and out of my truck. It seems to get looser with activity.

 

Of course I am always paranoid about osteo so I was wondering how it presents itself and is the pain variable, in other words does it "loosen up" with activity?

 

Thanks!

 

 

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Typically a limp that gets better with movement is arthritis. OS wouldn't improve, as far as I know.


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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Yup - Argos has had similar symptoms to Cash's for about a month, and after a very thorough physical exam, the vet said his right elbow feels "crunchy" when she bends it. She was not at all concerned about osteo because of the way it has presented - it was the first thing I asked her. You probably have nothing to worry about - but go to the vet for an official reassurance. Good luck!

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Guest BlueCrab

Hokiebuck, I'm not trying to hijack your thread here...

 

...but I'm still pretty new at this greyhound thing and I seem to be reading TONS about dogs getting diagnosed with osteo, the quick decisions that have to be made, potential amputations, etc. Is it really as prevalent as it sounds from all these threads - are that many dogs being diagnosed (is it a high percentage)? Or does it just seem that way because the folks who are affected are making it known and the actual percentage isn't actually that high?

 

Sorry...don't want to hijack. I'm too new for a PM, but if someone wants to point me somewhere else we can take this for more discussion, I'll stop butting in....

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Carolyn, the sad fact is that it's very prevalent. :( If I recall Dr. Couto's stats correctly, somewhere around 25% of all greyhounds get it (60% of greyhounds in his study presented with cancer of some sort and 50% of those presented with OS). I'm quoting those stats off the top of my head, but I think they're in the right range. Also though, it's hard to gauge in H&M forum because folks come here when they have a problem - no one posts their healthy dogs :lol


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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Guest HeatherDemps

My understanding is that if it gets "looser" with activity, it isn't cancer. However, as someone going through diagnosis, etc. now, I will always take every limp in the future seriously and have it checked out. As others have mentioned, a limp isn't always osteo, but I'd rather have it confirmed!

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Carolyn, the sad fact is that it's very prevalent. :( If I recall Dr. Couto's stats correctly, somewhere around 25% of all greyhounds get it (60% of greyhounds in his study presented with cancer of some sort and 50% of those presented with OS). I'm quoting those stats off the top of my head, but I think they're in the right range. Also though, it's hard to gauge in H&M forum because folks come here when they have a problem - no one posts their healthy dogs :lol

 

 

Your stats aren't that far off, without checking my own wherever they are. However greyhounds are not getting a lot of the other illnesses that kill other breeds. So, the same amount of dogs die, just of cancer and not heart or kidney disease.

 

Jake limped like that and had a shoulder muscle injury. The vet who examined him wasn't sure, but the massage therapist I took him to pinpointed the exact spot of the injury and then the secondary pain sites. I treated with ice/heat, rest and Traumeel.

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Guest greytloves

Xray his leg if you are worried. Osteo can appear on the Xrays. Doc should know what to look for. If not, maybe find a Doc that has a little more experience with greyhounds?

 

I understand not all Osteo is immediately seen with Xrays, but I believe most of it is.

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Carolyn, the sad fact is that it's very prevalent. :( If I recall Dr. Couto's stats correctly, somewhere around 25% of all greyhounds get it (60% of greyhounds in his study presented with cancer of some sort and 50% of those presented with OS). I'm quoting those stats off the top of my head, but I think they're in the right range. Also though, it's hard to gauge in H&M forum because folks come here when they have a problem - no one posts their healthy dogs :lol

 

 

Your stats aren't that far off, without checking my own wherever they are. However greyhounds are not getting a lot of the other illnesses that kill other breeds. So, the same amount of dogs die, just of cancer and not heart or kidney disease.

 

 

That's true!


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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Guest Hokiebuck

Well, I went to my parent's vet (I am in town visiting). She couldn't find anything specifically wrong. She noticed one leg warmer than the other so she thought perhaps he punctured or cut himself slightly (my parents have lots of wooded areas with gumballs in the yard that can get stuck in the feet) and he had an infection. So she gave us some antibiotics and said to see her today if it didn't improve. She is an older vet that doesn't have a lot of experience with osteo or GHs. In fact she asked me when Greyhounds usually get OS. I didn't think it was OS because of the variability in pain, but I always get nervous when I can't pinpoint the issue.

 

So today he seems better, no major limp, but still a little one. If it persists I'll take him to my vet next week.

 

Oh, and regarding Dr. Couto's study. Is there an age range to the occurance of OS? I mean for you to say 50% or whatever get OS, well if they get it at 13 years old...well you have to die of something...but if its at 8yrs old, then its more of a concern.

 

And yes, this forum can scare the CRAP out of you because no one ever posts...hey...look at my healthy dog! You just hear the horror stories here! :blush

Thats why I only come on this part to ask information.

 

Thanks for the replys.

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More common in dogs 9+, I'd say, but it doesn't know age and does appear in much younger dogs. Unfortunately, in younger dogs, it's more aggressive. One dog in my group, Winslow, got it at age 4 or 5 - you can see Diane's "A Walk Down Amp Lane" thread for his story. It's pretty amazing and he's got an amazing owner (BTW, nearly one year post-amp, he's doing fantastic). Irrc, another 5 y/o in our group got it and was euthanized eventually. His owners did not do amputation as the cancer was too far advanced. But we've also placed more than 600 dogs at this point, so 2 young dogs with OSA and another young dog with hemangio, I think, isn't bad :).


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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Don't count on that bit of info about a limp loosening....

My angel Marie had a limp that got looser wth activity, only to return and take her to the bridge in a hurrry.

Pay for a full set of xrays, limbs and chest.

The earlier you know, the better your chances of taking definitive action and more loving time with your furkid.

You are owned by an elite athlete, one who will run until it's heart bursts, if needed. When our greys are healthy, they take your breath away with their grace and agility.

I'll take whatever I can get of that good stuff :nod

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All -

 

I am not trying to hijack this thread nor am I trying to scare you, however I would like to share our story with you. I hope this is ok as I am in the firm believer camp of if you are worried, you are not paranoid, take your baby in to make both of you feel better.

 

To start, I can post that we have a healthy girl! :lol And I can say that we thank God for her everyday.

 

However, at the same time, as I blubber :cry1 through this posting with a :brokenheart , I can also tell you that we lost our little girls brother, our Angel Vinnie :angelwings on his 14 month, yes month, birthday. He was a happy, active boy, no worries, just the normal puppy stuff of go, go, go.

 

At 11 months old, playing in our backyard, running full speed ahead he all of a sudden stopped, yelped (which we now know as the GSOD) and limped back into the house. He layed down for awhile and then went running like a crazy boy through the house like normal so we thought he had just twisted his paw or something. Next morning we went to work (he and now his sister go to work with me, I am very blessed to have a boss who owns another greyt, which is their Uncle by bloodline) and he was fine until he had been playing like a crazy boy with his uncle for like 15 minutes at full speed, which is when we heard the next GSOD - it isn't any better the second, or third, or .... time around. Needless to say, scared the crud out of us. We kept him quiet the rest of the day, gave him some otc meds that was suggested in case of a twist so it would keep swelling down and watched him like a hawk. Lucky us, we were naive at the time - we didn't know or should I say acknowledge that a dog could get sick from cancer - that was for humans like me.

 

The next day he seemed to be doing ok so we went into work and within half an hour we had him back in the car and headed to the vet - GSOD is not good for the heart 3 days in a row! Unfortunately, our vet was not in so we saw another vet at the clinic and the vet was self-centered and self-serving unfortunately and was more interested in lecturing us that we shouldn't go by first aid info for pets, what the breeder says or anyone else because they were not a vet and she was! She wrapped Vinnie's paw and gave us Rimadyl and said he probably just twisted it wrong, keep him off it for a couple weeks and give him the meds and he would be fine - no xrays - no nothing. And just in case you can't tell - still have never forgiven her nor have we ever gone back to her. A week later, our baby was still in pain, the swelling hadn't gone down and in fact was worse as he could not put any pressure on it - yet his puppy thinking was still running his puppy body and he was still playing, just keeping his foot elevated naturally.

 

We then took him to a our original vet who sent him for xrays and checked him over - he thought he saw something suspicious so he sent them out to be read. You can guess where this is going, I am sure, we got a call that they wanted to do another series which led to a call telling us that they wanted us to see a specialist as they thought it was osteosarcoma. Our hearts stopped - how could this happen to a sweet, loving 11 month old puppy? Our world turned topsy turvy from that moment on. The specialist immediately casted our little boys leg (it was his right front wrist that started it all) as he was afraid that it was going to snap because it was so weak. We took him to our breeders vet hoping that everyone was wrong - they weren't.

 

Vinnie is one of Dr. Cuoto's statistics in his study. We found GT that day as I was searching madly for answers and you all opened your arms and supported us, no questions asked. No-one had heard of a greyt that young getting osteo, though many of you had unfortunately gone through it or were going through it. It was due to the wisdom of the GTers that we contacted Dr. Cuoto - he is our hero and guardian Angel. We sent him everything on Vinnie, including his blood and the blood of all those still around on his family tree - which was a lot since he was so young. He also gave us the chemo for Vinnie because of this. After many posts and pm's we decided to have his leg amputated and to follow-up with chemo. We felt it was his best chance and his lungs and lymph nodes were clean so we found a wonderful vet to do the amputation and started the chemo shortly thereafter.

 

He did really well at first, and he took to being a tripod without any missteps. He did the chemo like a champion and he loved the specialty clinicians & doc. But I started noticing the shortness of breath and the favoring of the back leg and they did another xray - the posting above where someone said osteo in younger dogs is more aggressive is an understatement. By the third chemo (every two weeks) it had completely filled one lung and had started on the second lung and they were afraid it was attacking the back leg. They said that they had never seen osteo so aggressive before. See, I told you we had a special boy! :wub:

 

There are so many wise GTers here, and they say that you always know when it is time to say goodbye, and we knew we had to let him go to The Rainbow Bridge. But had you seen him, even the weekend before we said goodbye for now, you would never have known he was sick or hurting when he was running (actually, he flew).

 

So as much as I would like to say that the pain is always there, or not to worry about a simple limp - my vote says, take the extra precaution and take him in, and if they are not sure what it is, have them do the xrays. Not all furkids handle pain the same way nor does osteo present the same way, Vinnie always let his excitement at life overrule his pain and we know others who yelp and whine like you are killing them when you clip their nails (that would be our Gracie girl).

 

And just so you know, our Angel Vinnie picked our Gracie girl to help heal our hearts. She was still waiting for a forever home as two had fallen out for her, he made sure she would be there for us. And she has helped us heal and our hearts have grown with her here, but we still miss our Angel. He went to the Bridge 6/27/06 and I just watched my first video of him and posted pictures of him this week.

 

I hope this is just a simple strain for your baby. Keeping you both in our prayers and sending healing thoughts your way. :hope:candle

Edited by Vinnie
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