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Question About Osteosarcoma


Guest SillyDog
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From what I've read and seen, it really depends on the dog and their tolerance for pain.. as well as location.

I've seen some dogs who were diagnosed with Osteo who ended up with something else and vice versa.

The only way, IMHO, to really tell is to have xrays taken to confirm.

Jennifer and Beamish (an unnamed Irish-born Racer) DOB: October 30, 2011

 

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From what I've read and seen, it really depends on the dog and their tolerance for pain.. as well as location.

I've seen some dogs who were diagnosed with Osteo who ended up with something else and vice versa.

The only way, IMHO, to really tell is to have xrays taken to confirm.

 

:nod :nod :nod

 

Some dogs will start wincing when there's nothing to be seen; others, you won't know anything until they break a leg.


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Guest SillyDog

Well, that's kind of why I asked -- to see if I should push for an x-ray. This is about my guy Prancer who's 11-ish and has chronic Ehrlichia. He's doing this thing where, even if I just touch it lightly, his shoulder muscle on the r side fliches/twitches something fierce. And sometimes he seems to be in pain and sometimes he doesn't. He's on tramadol, metacam and amantadine and last night he was restless and then had a panting episode. But he sometimes he runs around, plays tug and/or fetch. I'm really confused with his symptoms at this point.

 

 

I've got a vet appointment for him on Monday. I've also been corresponding with Burpdog about him. I'll be doing a round of doxy to kick down the Ehrlichia if that's what's causing the problem. But I just don't quite understand what's going on with him right now and I'm gathering up questions and observations to take to the vet on Monday, so I thought I'd ask you all about this.

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Iirc, erlichia can cause lameness...

 

Hope it's nothing serious.


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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Guest SillyDog
Iirc, erlichia can cause lameness...

 

Hope it's nothing serious.

 

 

Yeah, and that's what Burpdog has been graciously helping me with. He'll be starting a round of doxy on Monday, so if that's it, there'll be some improvement in the next few weeks.

 

The vet appointment on Monday is a 2nd opinion with a chiro/accupuncture DVM. I'm just trying to gather up my questions in advance.

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One thing to keep in mind with doxy is that it does have some anti-inflamatory properties, so its success may be misleading. In other words, is the dog doing better because doxy is fighting the erlichia, or is the dog doing better because the doxy is acting as an anti-inflamatory for something more serious. Hope your vet will be able to better assess the situation. :goodluck


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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Well, that's kind of why I asked -- to see if I should push for an x-ray. This is about my guy Prancer who's 11-ish and has chronic Ehrlichia. He's doing this thing where, even if I just touch it lightly, his shoulder muscle on the r side fliches/twitches something fierce. And sometimes he seems to be in pain and sometimes he doesn't. He's on tramadol, metacam and amantadine and last night he was restless and then had a panting episode. But he sometimes he runs around, plays tug and/or fetch. I'm really confused with his symptoms at this point.

 

Jack just has arthritis issues and something weird going on with one eye which is inflammatory in nature. He's on daily Metacam and as you say, sometimes we'll go to touch him lightly and he'll flinch and his skin will shiver, but the next moment he's running up the garden like a maniac. My mother, who has chronic inflammatory arthritis says that sometimes her joints burn and are very tender to touch, but not necessarily any more painful to use. Maybe it's the same, I don't know.

 

But after he had evening panting episodes, we put Jack onto Cimetidine even though he's not vomiting and has no gastro-intestinal symptoms. And when he's on Cimetidine he's a lot less restless and pants less. He's not perfect, but he is twelve and I doubt we can make life totally pain- or discomfort-free for him now. Sometimes it's a question of a balancing act with meds, with regard to pros and cons, benefits and side effects.

 

With your guy, I would suspect the Ehrlichia rather than osteosarcoma, but I'd be letting the vet take a good look and see what he thinks. :)

 

What side effects do Tramadol and Amantadine have?

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In my experience (3 hounds with OS), once the pain manifested with limping, it continued, only to be reduced but not elimated by pain meds. They each avoided using the bad leg. :( Hoping that the doxy knocks down the Ehrlichia and that your boy recovers completely. :hope

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My experience is with 1 grey (so far) with OS. The pain for her was constant with screams of pain with any type of movement. Once diagnosed she stopped using the leg entirely. Barely could get outside to potty; never mind any type of play. I really hope everything turns out OK.

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Guest SillyDog

Ok. Thanks all -- it's not nearly so painful that he's screaming. And he's walking ok -- stiff but he's still getting around just fine.

 

I'll report back on Monday after the vet apt. I guess I'm just nervous because when my first dog got sick I had to put her to sleep right away. She had hemangiosarcoma. Prancer's only my 2nd dog.

 

This is who we're talking about, just for reference:

 

DSCN0205.jpg

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From what I've read and seen, it really depends on the dog and their tolerance for pain.. as well as location.

I've seen some dogs who were diagnosed with Osteo who ended up with something else and vice versa.

The only way, IMHO, to really tell is to have xrays taken to confirm.

 

 

From what I've read and seen, it really depends on the dog and their tolerance for pain.. as well as location.

I've seen some dogs who were diagnosed with Osteo who ended up with something else and vice versa.

The only way, IMHO, to really tell is to have xrays taken to confirm.

 

:nod :nod :nod

 

Some dogs will start wincing when there's nothing to be seen; others, you won't know anything until they break a leg.

 

 

My only experience was in my Dane. She started limping and a round of Rimidyl stopped it until the meds ran out. We had xrays of the shoulder. We go to the vet practice in town that's owned by the orthopaedic referral vet. Several vets looked at the films and they all said they couldn't tell us if it was Osteo because they'd never, ever, ever in 30 years of orthopaedics seen it on film that early. Repeat of the films in six weeks confirmed yes, it was Osteo. As for Echo, she never made a sound. she limped, she ate, she wanted to run and play but she NEVER uttered a sound. her only med was the Rimidyl and we knew she was ready the day she refused to eat.

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Prancer looks like such a sweetheart. :wub: Hopefully the doxy will wipeout the problems.

His nails look really long, maybe when at the vet they can trim them? :grouphug

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Guest crazy4greys

I would get an xray. My girl Autumn had the limping symptoms and at first with xrays, it seemed to be arthritis, nothing else showed up. She had been going to the chiropractor/acupuncurtist since December. The vet should ask you for xrays so they can look at them before they start treatment.

 

Autumn also tested positive for a low titer of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever last week and was on Doxy for 5 days when she hurt her hip. I took her in for xrays and it showed Osteo in her hip. She didn't scream unless the vet moved her hip. Unfortunately I had to let her go. She was 11.5 yrs. old.

 

Good luck! I hope everything turns out okay.

 

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Guest SillyDog
Prancer looks like such a sweetheart. :wub: Hopefully the doxy will wipeout the problems.

His nails look really long, maybe when at the vet they can trim them? :grouphug

 

 

Oh, don't I know it with his nails! He goes into absolute freak out, scream of death mode when anyone tries to touch his feet. The vet, vet tech and I got all but one trimmed on the last visit (3 weeks ago). We couldn't get the last one because he was screaming and thrashing too hard. I will get them trimmed on Monday again. I feel awful about it, but the vet's agreed that once he gets to the point where he's screaming & thrashing it's not a good idea to continue because he could hurt himself. He does that after I do one nail with him. His teeth are really in good shape, so he doesn't have a dental coming up, either, where he could be close-trimmed while under. I've even tried desensitizing him to it by just touching the clipper to a nail and he freaks out each time. I really don't know what else to do! I mean, I've known dogs afraid of getting clipped or not liking it, but he's got the most intense reaction I've ever seen to it. The only solution I can come up with is give him enough Xanax that he's partially out of it and then take him to a groomer and see how he does with that.

 

Any ideas?

 

I would get an xray. My girl Autumn had the limping symptoms and at first with xrays, it seemed to be arthritis, nothing else showed up. She had been going to the chiropractor/acupuncurtist since December. The vet should ask you for xrays so they can look at them before they start treatment.

 

Autumn also tested positive for a low titer of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever last week and was on Doxy for 5 days when she hurt her hip. I took her in for xrays and it showed Osteo in her hip. She didn't scream unless the vet moved her hip. Unfortunately I had to let her go. She was 11.5 yrs. old.

 

Good luck! I hope everything turns out okay.

 

 

I'm so sorry about Autumn. It's scary how quickly osteo moves.

 

I will get an xray just for peace of mind on that shoulder. I'm also thinking about getting his tick titers re-done to see if he's carrying another one along with the Ehrlichia. I know he doesn't have Lymes or RMSF, or did not at his last titer test. But what about ones from other parts of the county? I have no idea where he came from! So, I'm going to ask about that, too.

Edited by SillyDog
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Oh, don't I know it with his nails! ... Any ideas?

Sandy and I get together to trim nails about every 3 weeks. Usually I hold the dog: I sit down in a chair without arms, and pick him/her up like a lamb... one arm around the chest/front legs and other arm around the fanny. The dog then rests between my legs, while the feet dangle in the middle. We do use muzzles. ;) From this position, Sandy sits on the ground and clips and/or dremels to her heart's content. Even our drama queens can be done this way. :rolleyes: Of course, a yummy treat is the reward for cooperating. :gmark Maybe this approach would work with your boy. :)

Edited by iluvgreys

Jeanne with Remington & Scooter the cat
....and Beloved Bridge Angels Sandee, Shari, Wells, Derby, Phoenix, Jerry Lee and Finnian.....
If tears could build a stairway, and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven
and bring you home again.

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Oh, don't I know it with his nails! ... Any ideas?

Sandy and I get together to trim nails about every 3 weeks. Usually I hold the dog: I sit down in a chair without arms, and pick him/her up like a lamb... one arm around the chest/front legs and other arm around the fanny. The dog then rests between my legs, while the feet dangle in the middle. We do use muzzles. ;) From this position, Sandy sits on the ground and clips and/or dremels to her heart's content. Even our drama queens can be done this way. :rollyeyes: Of course, a yummy treat is the reward for cooperating. :gmark Maybe this approach would work with your boy. :)

 

I'd like to see you try that on my 'drama queen'! Good luck on picking him up in the first place! :rofl :rofl :rofl Last time he was in kennels, which was run by a VERY experienced greyhound lady, we bathed him before we brought him home. Now Claire is not only very experienced, has had goodness knows how many greys of her own of various ages and personalities, but runs the local greyhound rescue too. She is selling up, sadly, but people used to bring their greyhounds from great distances to board with her. Anyway, after we managed to bath him between us in her specially kitted out shower room, she told me she had NEVER had such a twitchy, spooky boy to deal with in her life. :lol

 

What I do with him is wait till he's tired after a walk, and lying flat out on the floor, and I lie down with him and very, very quietly, without fuss, shave tiny bits off his nails. If I hold a foot, he freaks. If I twist a toe, he freaks. If he sees the clippers, he freaks. I can't just pin him down and muzzle him and get on with it because he's old and fragile and just throws himself around so horribly if he's restrained that I'm afraid he'll hurt himself. But doing it this way, I can do maybe three/four toes at a time before he realises what's happening and his nerves get the better of him.

 

 

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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Guest SillyDog
Oh, don't I know it with his nails! ... Any ideas?

Sandy and I get together to trim nails about every 3 weeks. Usually I hold the dog: I sit down in a chair without arms, and pick him/her up like a lamb... one arm around the chest/front legs and other arm around the fanny. The dog then rests between my legs, while the feet dangle in the middle. We do use muzzles. ;) From this position, Sandy sits on the ground and clips and/or dremels to her heart's content. Even our drama queens can be done this way. :rollyeyes: Of course, a yummy treat is the reward for cooperating. :gmark Maybe this approach would work with your boy. :)

 

 

Good idea. I haven't tried holding him up off the floor yet. Oh, yeah we've been using the muzzle for years with this guy when he gets trimmed. He really is such a good boy and sweet 99%, I'd hate to allow him access to biting me or someone elese in a moment of nail hell panic/duress. He'd be mortified if he bit someone! (The only time he ever growled at me was when I pretended to sit on him because he wouldn't move out of my spot. - Let me make it clear I wasn't going to actually sit on him! - My bum touched him ever so slightly and he said, "Grr." and left. :P )

 

I'd been hoping he'd be ok with Dremmeling as opposed to clipping, but that, too, makes him crazy.

 

Thanks for the great idea!

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Guest SillyDog
If I hold a foot, he freaks. If I twist a toe, he freaks. If he sees the clippers, he freaks. I can't just pin him down and muzzle him and get on with it because he's old and fragile and just throws himself around so horribly if he's restrained that I'm afraid he'll hurt himself. But doing it this way, I can do maybe three/four toes at a time before he realises what's happening and his nerves get the better of him.

 

 

Well, I'll try the holding him method and see if that gets us anywhere. But, yeah, that's how bad he is and he's old enough that he could really hurt himself if I let him thrash. I mean, I'm all for doing what's gotta get done, but not when we're talking about a dog that's at least 11 with arthritis.

 

I hope the lamb method works, though. It'd be so nice to get his nails down. Carly, my other grey has these tiny petite nails - she really looks 10X better than the PrancerMan in that area. I've even thought about getting doggy nail polish for her because she'd totally let me paint hers.

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