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Guest greymommy
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Guest greymommy

:unsure I took my poor pup to the vet last week to get his anual vacc. I mentioned that we just moved and that he has been acting a little bit depressed (sleeping more, not wanting to play, whining a lot). Well that opened a whole can of worms and doc did not want to vaccinate a sick dog. So, we agreed to a CBC (I don't have any baseline bloodwork on him, so what could it hurt?). CBC results, according to the doc, showed " low WBC", so we started an antibiotic for 14 days, and then will check again before vaccinating. Just to be sure it's an infection and not some other cause, doc reccomended sending a blood sample away for a "smear", where someone will actually look at the blood under a microscope to see if pathogens are there. Fine.

 

Well, then I ofcourse came home and feverishly searched for low WBC on greytalk and discovered that his 3.9 WBC is normal for a GREY. So I called the vet's office to declare the range of 3.5-6 as normal for greys... and through a messenger, the vet said that she was unaware of WBC reference ranges being so low but would look into it. When the actual vet called back, she said that I must have been confused, because she was not concerned about total WBC, but neutrophils. Fine.

 

His neutrophils were apparantly checked in a CBC while I was at the office, and then the CBC was again repeated at the place that they sent his blood for to do a smear....yes, I paid for the same test on the same sample to be done TWICE. Neutrophil levels were first at the office: 1500, then at the actual lab: 1900. I am not sure what the normal range for NEUTROPHILS in a GREY is. The average dog seems to be 3,000-12,000. Can anybody help???!!!

 

After the course of antibiotics, the vet wants to check the levels again, then if they haven't greatly improved, do a bone marrow biopsy (which is super expensive and super painful for my poor little pup!) :o

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Take a looky here: http://www.animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com...d%20Labwork.pdf

 

Sounds like your dog is just fine as greyhounds go.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Guest greymommy
Take a looky here: http://www.animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com...d%20Labwork.pdf

 

Sounds like your dog is just fine as greyhounds go.

:colgate Thank you so much for replying! I actually spent my evening scouring the internet for any grey neutrophil values to reference. I found this link, too, but it was the ONLY one that I found with any number. This link states that 1800 for an otherwise healthy grey is ok. I want to call the vet tomorrow and protest her plans for my pup, but I don't feel very confident challenging her vet education, which I don't have, because I found ONE number on ONE sight on the internet. Are there any other sources for atleast a range? Or anyone who has similar numbers for their grey?

 

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Check with the vet clinic and see if they have other greyhound patients and if not I would be looking for a veternarian who is familiar with greyhounds. Your post doesn't show where you are...there may be someone on Greytalk who can refer you to a good greyhound savvy vet. In the meantime read, read, read and educate yourself on the differences in greyhounds and dogs. :) It sounds like you already are getting a good start.

Greyhound angels at the bridge- Casey, Charlie, Maggie, Molly, Renie, Lucy & Teddy. Beagle angels Peanut and Charlie. And to all the 4 legged Bridge souls who have touched my heart, thank you. When a greyhound looks into you eyes it seems they touch your very soul.

"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more then he loves himself". Josh Billings

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Guest greymommy
Check with the vet clinic and see if they have other greyhound patients and if not I would be looking for a veternarian who is familiar with greyhounds. Your post doesn't show where you are...there may be someone on Greytalk who can refer you to a good greyhound savvy vet. In the meantime read, read, read and educate yourself on the differences in greyhounds and dogs. :) It sounds like you already are getting a good start.

I just moved to Erie, PA, but have been taking them to their old vet in Pittsburgh because I just couldn't make the leap yet in finding a grey savvy vet in this new, smaller town. This vet (office, not necessarily specific doctor) is actually who our group uses for greys and was reccomended by others who have continued to take their greys there after adoption and through tough times (again, to this clinic, not this specific doctor maybe).

I'd really like to have more to back my protest than just one number on one internet sight when questioning her education....one that I lack. This site doesn't list an acceptable range, just one example number. Has anyone else come across neutrophil ranges in personal experience for greys, or even just researching?

Thanks again for all of the help!

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Are there any other sources for atleast a range? Or anyone who has similar numbers for their grey?

 

Here's one from the Ohio State University where they do a lot of research into greyhound diseases

 

Link No 1

 

Lower neutrophil counts in greyhounds is mentioned in the second paragraph down.

 

 

 

 

 

This is from another page on OSU's site

 

ther hematologic "abnormalities" in the breed include low white blood cell (WBC) counts (from 1,800-2,000 cells/μl an up), low neutrophil counts (same as WBCs), low platelet counts (70,000-120,000/μl), abnormal granulation in eosinophils, and low plasma or serum protein concentration.

 

And here's the link for that - Link No 2

 

Read the fifth paragraph down

 

 

 

 

And I found this, too -

 

4

 

HEMATOLOGICAL PARAMETERS IN YOUNG, PRE-TRAINING

HEALTHY GREYHOUNDS. R.E. Shiel1, S.F. Brennan1, M.

McCullough2, C.T. Mooney1. Departments of 1Small Animal

Clinical Studies and 2Veterinary Pathology, University College

Dublin, Ireland.

Canine hematological reference intervals are rarely breed- or age-

specific although these can markedly influence results. For instance,

it is widely recognized that adult greyhounds exhibit higher

hematocrit and hemoglobin concentrations and lower neutrophil,

monocyte, lymphocyte and platelet counts compared with the

general canine population.

 

This is from Link No. 3

 

Look on page 2, column 2.

 

 

I found other references in the Google search, but they were for closed sites which were intended for veterinarians.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Edited to add: just for clarity, University College Dublin, where the last article originates, is in Eire (Ireland). Ireland is a MAJOR source of racing greyhounds and they will have a huge amount of experience with them there.

Edited by silverfish

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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Guest greytexplorer
Take a looky here: http://www.animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com...d%20Labwork.pdf

 

Sounds like your dog is just fine as greyhounds go.

 

 

Why wouldn't this reference alone be enough?

It was written by Drs Feeman and Couto, for heaven's sake!

What more could any vet want?

My vet has a copy of this at his office! and he's NOT the most grey-savvy, but he is familiar with the breed due to his education at Auburn University.

Make a copy, put it in a binder and GIVE it to your vet, along with a smile! :nod

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Guest greymommy

Wow, thanks everyone for the help. I will pass this all on to my vet, I hope that she isn't offended, but I just can't make any decisions for my pups without really being sure.

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Guest luckydog

Don't worry about offending your vet. If any vet is offended because you questions your dog's treatment, well, that vet isn't worthy of being your vet!

 

For what it's worth, I had a good go-around with my now former vet because while she would listen to me and my questions, she didn't actually *hear* me.

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Guest spider9174

if your vet is offended by passing this information on, get a new vet, period. I am not trying to be mean, but you need a vet that is humble enough to say "i need to read up on that to be a better vet to my clients" or at the very least recognize he/she needs to read up. The only way you can be completely comfortable with your vet is to have that assurance that when he/she is limited in his/her knowlege that he will be willing to to go back to the library and read up on the condition/breed etc...if he/she still can't help you after researching it or feels he/she isn't capable of dealing with the condition, then he/she should refer you to someone better equipped to deal with the problem. And you know what...there is no shame in saying, "I have exhausted everything I know to try. He need testing that I can't do and I would really suggest you see a specialist."

 

Yeah...I'm hard on my vets. Sorry to any vets out there...but as an owner you have to be an advocate for your animal. I am new to greyhounds (got my guy a year ago), but rode and showed horses for almost 26 years. I found very quickly that I needed to be involved in all parts of my horses care and treatment to totally be comfortable with what was going on. And believe me...it isn't always easy to know what questions to ask. But, if you don't get an adequate answer ask again and insist they help you understand, it is part of their job.

 

OK...getting off my soap box...I wish you the best with your grey!

 

 

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I like a vet humble enough to say "I need to go get the book". I have found in the vets I've used that say this, they are very good vets--a lot of knowledge and the where with all to know they do not know it all.

 

If you are concerned with the values (that appear to be normal), you are not that far from Ohio State :) Make an appointment, drive on down and see what they say!

Diane & The Senior Gang

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Guest paulamariez

Don't worry about your vet being offended! The health of your hound is worth it! I'm rather nervy in this department, and I printed off and took a whole stinking greyhound health manual that I found on the internet to my vet and she in fact, knew greyhounds quite well having done her internship at the greyhound race track here in Wisconsin. But she was very grateful that I brought it and appreciated that I printed the copy out for her and let her keep it. If your vet got offended, that would be a sign to find a new vet to me! Good luck with your baby. Sending prayers, love and light and hoping that it's nothing! And doggie kisses to your pup from my three boys!

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Guest greymommy

I faxed my results today to a reputable grey savvy vet, who I am certain has many grey patients, for a second opinion. Two docs looked over them today during their lunch and called to tell me that among the many CBC results that they have seen from greys, they don't "USUALLY see numbers QUITE this low" (WBC 3900, neutrophils 1900). They did say that the RBC look great, which is also made by the bone marrow, so it shouldn't be a bone marrow problem, but probably a minor infection or virus. They said not to make a mountain out of this result since he is acting normally, and to just wait and see...Definitely NOT to do the bone marrow just because of this...but to repeat the CBC after the antibiotics and as long as those numbers do not decrease, just watch him closely. I feel much more comfortable with that, but I still don't get why there is any concern at all if both numbers are perfect according to published reference ranges for greys.

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I faxed my results today to a reputable grey savvy vet, who I am certain has many grey patients, for a second opinion. Two docs looked over them today during their lunch and called to tell me that among the many CBC results that they have seen from greys, they don't "USUALLY see numbers QUITE this low" (WBC 3900, neutrophils 1900). They did say that the RBC look great, which is also made by the bone marrow, so it shouldn't be a bone marrow problem, but probably a minor infection or virus. They said not to make a mountain out of this result since he is acting normally, and to just wait and see...Definitely NOT to do the bone marrow just because of this...but to repeat the CBC after the antibiotics and as long as those numbers do not decrease, just watch him closely. I feel much more comfortable with that, but I still don't get why there is any concern at all if both numbers are perfect according to published reference ranges for greys.

Here is a key to remember. Although Greyhounds can have lower neutrophil counts... that doesn't mean EVERY Greyhound will have lower neutrophil counts. This goes for all of the Greyhound blood values. So maybe his own personal normal neutrophil count is 3400 and he is sick so now it is down to 1900. Or maybe his normal value is just 1900. The problem is by just looking at bloodwork you can't tell. That is where you look for other signs. If he is sick with a virus then you should be seeing some sort of sign: fever, lethargy, inappetance, etc. If he is completely healthy than it is hard to argue that it would likely be anything other than normal for a Greyhound.

 

Make sense? If not, feel free to drop me an email. :)

 

 

Bill

Lady

Bella and Sky at the bridge

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." -Anabele France

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Guest greymommy
I faxed my results today to a reputable grey savvy vet, who I am certain has many grey patients, for a second opinion. Two docs looked over them today during their lunch and called to tell me that among the many CBC results that they have seen from greys, they don't "USUALLY see numbers QUITE this low" (WBC 3900, neutrophils 1900). They did say that the RBC look great, which is also made by the bone marrow, so it shouldn't be a bone marrow problem, but probably a minor infection or virus. They said not to make a mountain out of this result since he is acting normally, and to just wait and see...Definitely NOT to do the bone marrow just because of this...but to repeat the CBC after the antibiotics and as long as those numbers do not decrease, just watch him closely. I feel much more comfortable with that, but I still don't get why there is any concern at all if both numbers are perfect according to published reference ranges for greys.

Here is a key to remember. Although Greyhounds can have lower neutrophil counts... that doesn't mean EVERY Greyhound will have lower neutrophil counts. This goes for all of the Greyhound blood values. So maybe his own personal normal neutrophil count is 3400 and he is sick so now it is down to 1900. Or maybe his normal value is just 1900. The problem is by just looking at bloodwork you can't tell. That is where you look for other signs. If he is sick with a virus then you should be seeing some sort of sign: fever, lethargy, inappetance, etc. If he is completely healthy than it is hard to argue that it would likely be anything other than normal for a Greyhound.

 

Make sense? If not, feel free to drop me an email. :)

Makes perfect sense. Thanks everyone! :)

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