Tessie Almost Died Monday!

[Guest Tessiegirl]

Tessie dislocated her toe on Saturday, running around the yard. I took her to the vet on Monday. He put her to sleep, poped it back and wrapped it. That was at about 11. At 1 they called me to come get her. About 15 minutes later when I got there she was breathing really hard and it got worse. Mouth wide open, trying to suck in air. It was awful. The vet had gone to lunch but came back immediately. They started giving her oxygen and then gave her epenephrine (sp?) several times and hooked an IV bag up. I stayed by her side until almost 6 pm when we finally went home. I couldn't afford to put her in one of those emergency over night care places.

 

The Dr. said she was only out 15 minutes and usually an allergic reaction happens right away. He said she may have aspirated some liquid but wasn't sure. He x-rayed her and her lungs didn't show anything. He said she was fine and dandy when they left her.

 

I am not sure what they used but the bill says: Domitor anesthesia, Buprenex injection for pain. He said it was the same thing he used on her when they cleaned her teeth in Jan.

 

I won't want to have her put under again unless it's absolutely necessary. I will be brushing her teeth every single day from now on. Any good dental tips would be appreciated. I sure hope this toe heals and this doesn't happen again...

 

Debbie

[Guest Tessiegirl]

I forgot to add: she is taking Zubrin for pain and swelling, amoxil, Baytril, & theophyline.

 

 

 

 

 

Tessie dislocated her toe on Saturday, running around the yard. I took her to the vet on Monday. He put her to sleep, poped it back and wrapped it. That was at about 11. At 1 they called me to come get her. About 15 minutes later when I got there she was breathing really hard and it got worse. Mouth wide open, trying to suck in air. It was awful. The vet had gone to lunch but came back immediately. They started giving her oxygen and then gave her epenephrine (sp?) several times and hooked an IV bag up. I stayed by her side until almost 6 pm when we finally went home. I couldn't afford to put her in one of those emergency over night care places.

 

The Dr. said she was only out 15 minutes and usually an allergic reaction happens right away. He said she may have aspirated some liquid but wasn't sure. He x-rayed her and her lungs didn't show anything. He said she was fine and dandy when they left her.

 

I am not sure what they used but the bill says: Domitor anesthesia, Buprenex injection for pain. He said it was the same thing he used on her when they cleaned her teeth in Jan.

 

I won't want to have her put under again unless it's absolutely necessary. I will be brushing her teeth every single day from now on. Any good dental tips would be appreciated. I sure hope this toe heals and this doesn't happen again...

 

Debbie

 

[Guest Stretchy]

Wow, what a scary experieince! Glad everything is ok now.

 

Raw turkey necks are great for keeping teeth clean

Edited August 16, 2007 by Stretchy

[MarcR]

Very scary. I've had good luck with CET Hextra dental chews.

 

My girls have come through dentals with no problems. My vet does use a "high risk" anesthesia protocol, but I don't know the specifics.

Edited August 16, 2007 by MarcR

[Greytlady94]

That must have been really scary, I'm glad she is ok. I agree, whole, raw turkey necks are great for helping to keep their teeth clean.

[Guest EmbersDad]

when i first got ember, she needed a dental. the vet prescribed dantrolene to be given the night before, being a noob, more of it ended up on teh floor than in the dog, result->malignant hyperthermia. lucky for me my vet owns a grey and his staff were monitoring her closely. she was treated and everything was ok. 2nd dental, dantrolene again, this time, hidden in peanut butter, and all went into the dog. my vet's son, dr. ian, consulted with upenn on an anesthetic protocol ( sorry, i do not know what they came up with, but could find out if you would like to know) and the result->sailed thru with flying colors :-)

 

glad your pupper is OK

[Guest Tessiegirl]

I gave her one once. She hogged it down almost whole! It scared me. Do you cut them up? I have trouble finding them too.

 

 

 

Wow, what a scary experieince! Glad everything is ok now.

 

Raw turkey necks are great for keeping teeth clean

 

[MP_the4pack]

I'm glad she's ok.

 

Pearl is high risk anesthesia because of her cardiology problems and hypertension.

 

So, I brush every day. Big thing is to make sure you get the little teeth all the way in the back. She had one abscess on her.

 

It was misdiagnosed.

She was put on prednizone which is horrible for a hypertensive patient.

I thought she died the day before Thanksgiving, when it was finally diagnosed as an abscess.

 

The abscess was so bad it took almost 2 weeks for the infection to clear up.

 

We finally did get a dental (since we had to get a CT done anyway) and she is just feeling cherry now!!

 

 

 

[Guest Ola]

If she can swallow it whole then it's way too small (and don't even try chicken necks!). If you cut it up, the dental benefits are gone because you get those from chewing. Try chicken leg quarters, pork neck bones, pork ribs, etc. - aim for bigger, not smaller. Usually the suggestion for raw feeders whose dogs gulp is to feed pieces bigger than the dog's head. If you are feeding large items you can skip a meal that day to avoid weight gain.

 

Raw bones usually clean the back teeth that they use for crunching, and not the canines. With toothbrushing it's easier to get the front teeth, but harder to get the back. They can complement each other well.

[Guest Snowy8]

Ohmygawd...I'm glad she's alright now.

[Guest EmbersDad]

I gave her one once. She hogged it down almost whole! It scared me. Do you cut them up? I have trouble finding them too.

 

 

 

Wow, what a scary experieince! Glad everything is ok now.

 

Raw turkey necks are great for keeping teeth clean

 

 

if you live anywhere near the jersey shore, there is hincks turkey farm in sea girt. i get them there and a dozen runs me about $7

[Guest Heep]

I'm glad to hear your bebe is still with you!

 

When Eden hurt her foot, I padded it up with an ace bandage & stuck a (human) baby sock over it to keep her from getting it off. Maybe that could help keep her toe out of commission until it heals properly.

[silverfish]

Gosh, how scary!

 

I was wondering about malignant hyperthermia, too - did they take her temperature?

[LBass]

That sounds like a terrifying experience. I'm so very glad for you and your sweetie that she came through and is on the mend now.

 

Lucy

[Guest Tessiegirl]

They kept taking her temp - had a monitor on her the whole time. It went up a little then back down. They were more concerned with her heart rate and oxygen saturation. What is malignant hyperthermia?

 

 

I was wondering about malignant hyperthermia, too - did they take her temperature?

 

[Jiffer]

Orion stopped breathing during his dental.

He went into Malignant Hyperthermia.. internal temperature spikes, difficulty getting him to breathe on his own, heart rate erratic and accelerated. Needed IV fluids in order to bring him back. We almost lost him and it was terrifying. We were lucky that they had two vets working on him simultaneously... one monitored vitals, the other did the dental work. They saw his temperature and heart rate starting to go up and were able to act right away.

 

He gets his remaining few teeth brushed twice a week and gets hard chews to clean them off. He's high risk so going under would be only if it was a life or death situation, otherwise, my vet feels it'd be best if they could do things under local instead.

[ahicks51]

They kept taking her temp - had a monitor on her the whole time. It went up a little then back down. They were more concerned with her heart rate and oxygen saturation. What is malignant hyperthermia?

 

Malignant hyperthermia is a physiological condition in which the muscles go out of whack and start dumping lots of energy- in the form of heat- when under general anesthesia. It is life-threatening, and probably genetic in origin. So, the oxygen concentration in the blood drops, the carbon dioxide concentration skyrockets (causing the blood pH to drop at the same time), the heart rate goes up, the body (and brain) start to cook from the heat, and as muscles break down, there's a spike in potassium, creatine kinase, and myoglobin. Intravenous dantrolene can be used to stop the progression of the condition; it is a muscle relaxant, and pretty much the only drug that can be used specifically for malignant hypothermia.

 

Worse, malignant hypothermia doesn't always happen with every exposure to gas anesthesia, so a dog can present with malignant hyperthermia (in some cases) even after having been spayed or neutered (frequently the first time a dog undergoes general anesthesia).

 

A muscle biopsy can be performed to determine susceptibility in humans; I don't know as it's cost-effective in dogs.

 

Edited 'coz I can't spell dantrolene right.

Edited August 16, 2007 by ahicks51

[patricia]

OMG...thank goodness all is ok now.

[Guest Tessiegirl]

Shouldn't it happen immediately and not two hours later?

 

 

 

 

They kept taking her temp - had a monitor on her the whole time. It went up a little then back down. They were more concerned with her heart rate and oxygen saturation. What is malignant hyperthermia?

 

Malignant hyperthermia is a physiological condition in which the muscles go out of whack and start dumping lots of energy- in the form of heat- when under general anesthesia. It is life-threatening, and probably genetic in origin. So, the oxygen concentration in the blood drops, the carbon dioxide concentration skyrockets (causing the blood pH to drop at the same time), the heart rate goes up, the body (and brain) start to cook from the heat, and as muscles break down, there's a spike in potassium, creatine kinase, and myoglobin. Intravenous dantrolene can be used to stop the progression of the condition; it is a muscle relaxant, and pretty much the only drug that can be used specifically for malignant hypothermia.

 

Worse, malignant hypothermia doesn't always happen with every exposure to gas anesthesia, so a dog can present with malignant hyperthermia (in some cases) even after having been spayed or neutered (frequently the first time a dog undergoes general anesthesia).

 

A muscle biopsy can be performed to determine susceptibility in humans; I don't know as it's cost-effective in dogs.

 

Edited 'coz I can't spell dantrolene right.

 

 

Tessie started to go into shock is what they said. Heart rate was low. First her breathing looked like my Grandpa did when he was dying.

 

 

 

 

Orion stopped breathing during his dental.

He went into Malignant Hyperthermia.. internal temperature spikes, difficulty getting him to breathe on his own, heart rate erratic and accelerated. Needed IV fluids in order to bring him back. We almost lost him and it was terrifying. We were lucky that they had two vets working on him simultaneously... one monitored vitals, the other did the dental work. They saw his temperature and heart rate starting to go up and were able to act right away.

 

He gets his remaining few teeth brushed twice a week and gets hard chews to clean them off. He's high risk so going under would be only if it was a life or death situation, otherwise, my vet feels it'd be best if they could do things under local instead.

[ahicks51]

Shouldn't it happen immediately and not two hours later?

 

Merck says 5-30 minutes:

 

"Clinical signs include tachycardia, tachypnea, pyrexia, muscle rigidity, and cardiopulmonary failure. Signs develop 5-30 min after exposure to the anesthetic agent. Treatment consists of immediate cessation of anesthesia and hyperventilation with oxygen. IV fluid therapy, corticosteroids, and ice packs are also used. Dantrolene, a muscle relaxant, may be given at 2-5 mg/kg, IV. Prognosis is poor in severe cases. Urinary output, serum potassium levels, and cardiac function should be monitored."

 

A quick Google search shows Domitor is well-tolerated in greyhounds. I'm at a loss.

[Guest crazy4greys]

I am glad to hear she is okay. Just curious as to why he put her under to pop her toe back in? My girls, Skylar & Winnie, have dislocated their toe before, and I just pop it back in. It was freaky at first, but it's not so bad anymore!

[silverfish]

I am glad to hear she is okay. Just curious as to why he put her under to pop her toe back in? My girls, Skylar & Winnie, have dislocated their toe before, and I just pop it back in. It was freaky at first, but it's not so bad anymore!

I think you need to be experienced before attempting to reduce dislocations or you can do more damage, cause a LOT of pain, and/or get bitten. You may have learned how, but I wouldn't recommend everyone try this at home. Not without having been shown how by a professional.

 

My guess is that if they had to put her out to do it, it may have been out for some time - the muscles/ligaments go into spasm.

 

Dislocations are enormously painful - think how bad a simple muscle cramp can be - and they need treating properly or the joint can just keep popping in and out at the slightest provocation and may never regain full stability. My DS No.2 dislocated his elbow as a toddler - we took him to the A&E where a very nice young doc popped it back into place within 15 minutes of it happening. Because he knew what he was doing, there was no fuss, or strain, or difficulty - and yes, he did it while DS was awake and screaming. And it has never been any trouble to him since - that happened about 20 years ago. If it had been left overnight (as my GP suggested) it wouldn't have gone back in so easily, nor stayed in so well.

 

If a vet wanted to put one of mine out to reduce a disclocation, I'd let him. JMHO. Of course, if they had a history of malignant hyperthermia that would be different.

[feemandvm]

Worse, malignant hypothermia doesn't always happen with every exposure to gas anesthesia, so a dog can present with malignant hyperthermia (in some cases) even after having been spayed or neutered (frequently the first time a dog undergoes general anesthesia).

 

 

Not true. If a dog has MH it will produce a life threatening hypERthermia every time it is exposed to the gas anesthesia triggering the episode. A lot of GHs are misdiagnosed as having malignant hyperthermia when they truly have non-MH. See below for the difference:

 

http://animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com/lib...yperthermia.pdf

 

 

 

[Batmom]

Might see if the nice folks at OSU Greyhound Wellness Program could offer some advice in case she does have to go under in future. Might be able to offer a safer anaesthesia protocol based on her reaction this time.

 

Sending hugs.

[ahicks51]

Worse, malignant hypothermia doesn't always happen with every exposure to gas anesthesia, so a dog can present with malignant hyperthermia (in some cases) even after having been spayed or neutered (frequently the first time a dog undergoes general anesthesia).

 

 

Not true. If a dog has MH it will produce a life threatening hypERthermia every time it is exposed to the gas anesthesia triggering the episode. A lot of GHs are misdiagnosed as having malignant hyperthermia when they truly have non-MH. See below for the difference:

 

http://animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com/lib...yperthermia.pdf

 

Is the mechanism different in dogs than in humans? I'm not challenging you; I thought the mutation was the same in humans as in other animals. The reason I ask (emphasis mine):

 

http://anes.usuhs.mil/mh_primer.htm

 

"The ability to recognize a clinical episode of MH is complicated by its rare occurrence, nonspecific signs, lack of non invasive screening test and by the fact that susceptible patients may not trigger with every exposure to triggering agents." (Sheila M. Muldoon, M.D. Professor, Department of Anesthesiology, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences)

 

From the NIH:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?...ene.chapter.mhs

 

"Of note, an MH episode may not occur with every exposure to "trigger" agents. Clinical manifestation may depend on genetic predisposition, dose of trigger agents, or duration of exposure." ( Henry Rosenberg, MD, Professor, Saint George's University, President, Malignant Hyperthermia Association of the United States)

 

From the J. Anesthesiology:

 

"Some of the complexities in the presentation of MH may be caused by the heterogenetic nature of the disorder. [7-10] Not only have several mutations been identified in RYR1 that may cause various phenotypes of MH, but as many as five chromosomes have been suggested to encode proteins that potentially cause MH. [10] Furthermore, certain factors can modify the expression of the syndrome, because heterozygous humans, [11] and even swine homozygous for the porcine MH mutation, [12] do not exhibit the syndrome at every exposure to a triggering anesthesia." (May, 1999: ATX II, A Sodium Channel Toxin, Sensitizes Skeletal Muscle to Halothane, Caffeine, and Ryanodine.)