Question About Frontline Plus

[Guest dmona]

We took our two greys to a Meet N Greet today sponsored by the org. where we got our dogs. I was asking the owner what she does about ticks and fleas as the has lots of woods at her house and she has 8 dogs of her own. First of all she said her dogs don't get them as there are other "critters" in the woods that they attach to, but in the city there are no critters so they attach to whatever they can.(We also have some woods but ours still get a tick occasionally when we walk them.) She said she uses frontline plus ONCE A YEAR on them and in the interim uses program or advantage. She said that frontline plus has chemicals that could cause cancer. Doesn't all of these have chemicals? Is this true? I use it on both my greys and used it on my cocker for 13 years. Thanks for your input.

[RobinM]

Can't wait to hear this one. Yeesh, it's always something.

While I know nothing about this and we just started Frontline on our 3 last month for the first time ever, I',m not overly concerned as there are too many knowlegable GH people out there would have alerted all of us, not to mention the vets who give it out.

Interested to hear all the replies.

[Guest greytexplorer]

If I'm not mistaken, the vets at Auburn University developed this drug YEARS ago.

Wouldn't we have heard about the pitfalls by now?

All of the vets at the clinic that I use graduated from Auburn, and I have yet to hear any of them warn me about Frontline, or pull it off the shelf, etc.

 

war eagle!

[Hubcitypam]

Any chemical probably has some risk of causing cancer if one dissects it enough. If you see her again please tell her that Advantage does not work on ticks. It is strictly for fleas.

[Guest Cris_M]

Gotta agree with Hubcitypam that any chemical could cause cancer under the right circumstances.

 

However, when Gabriel was dying of leukemia (pancytopenia) and lymphoma, our very grey savvy vets suggested Frontline Plus because it resides in the hair follicles rather than being systemic like Advantage. They felt it was a much safer flea preventative for him. Since they loved Gabriel very much (I adopted directly from them), I know they treated him as if he were their own dog.

 

 

[ahicks51]

Frontline Plus is a combination of fipronil and (s)-methoprene.

 

Fipronil is possibly a carcinogen, and possibly an endocrine disruptor:

 

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemic...?Rec_Id=PC35768

 

Then again, so is virtually everything else listed on pesticideinfo.org. However, it is not listed as an IARC carcinogen; it's not on the US NTP as a carcinogen, not on California Prop 65, or TRI. It is a "possible" carcinogen as per the US EPA, Category C:

 

"Category C: Possible human carcinogen. The data show limited evidence of carcinogenicity in the absence of human data."

 

This means in one test or another, it showed up as a carcinogen. This could mean it proved negative in 4-5 studies, and showed up as positive in one. Similarly, it shows up on the Colborn list as an endocrine disruptor, while four others show it as negative. It is NOT listed as a reproductive/developmental toxin, or as a "Chemical of Special Concern."

 

Fipronil kills by gumming up the GABA channels in bugs, which humans don't have. Much better than organophosphates. This is what provides Frontline with the "quick kill."

 

The methoprene is the "slow kill." It is an insect growth regulator (IGR), which gums up th e life cycle: the pests can't moult, so they die. Humans and dogs don't moult, so this is a pretty darned selective killer.

 

Methoprene is less toxic than table salt to dogs:

 

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extox...oprene-ext.html

 

(LD50 for sodium chloride is about 3,000 mg/kg, whereas methoprene is somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000. Anything over 5,000 is very safe indeed.) There are no reported issues with chronic toxicity, reproductive or teratogenic hazards, is "not" mutagenic, and not a carcinogen.

 

When one goes out and compares labels with other products, Frontline is much safer than other products out there. It's also much more expensive.

 

As for it being a carcinogen- a big fat, "yeah, maybe." But so little of it is used, and when compared to the alternatives- what are you going to use? Herbs and spices and good wishes? Program is lufenuron, a product lacking data:

 

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemic...?Rec_Id=PC38491

 

Big question marks there for "lack of data" with respect to being a carcinogen, reproductive toxin, or an endocrine disruptor. And this isn't a topical- this is something that is fed.

 

Advantage is imidacloprid, a chloronicotinyl insecticide. It is more toxic than active ingredients in Frontline and Program, but very little of it needs to be used to achieve the same effect. There are some issues with chronic poisoning, reproductive issues, and teratogenic effects (issues mainly concerning bone growth and decreased body weight at higher concentrations). It may be a weak mutagen. It is a Group E carcinogen, meaning there is proof it is NOT a carcinogen in humans. High dosages did lead to thyroid lesions in rats.

 

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/imidaclo.htm

 

Pick your poison!

[Houndtime]

First of all she said her dogs don't get them as there are other "critters" in the woods that they attach to, but in the city there are no critters so they attach to whatever they can.(We also have some woods but ours still get a tick occasionally when we walk them.)

I find it interesting that her local fleas and ticks would rather select other critters than dogs. As if they have a menu to choose from.

I was using Advantix, but found it to be a little too strong for my dogs and went back to Front Line Plus. The Advantix has the added extra of also repelling mosquitos. When we are camping, I have a Nature's Halo spray which is supposed to repell flys and mosquitos. It smells quite pleasant, but I am not sure that it really works.

[Guest lvmydogz]

I too have worried over this, so what I do just to *try* to help some. I always apply it in different spots each month.

Sometimes I will run the frontline in spots down the back, sometimes I'll only apply it to the back of the neck and base of the tail area.

Hopefully with trying to keep the application spot spread out in different spots each month, it will help to cut down the risks of it building up so much into just one spot, kwim?

 

I figure it can't hurt.

 

 

Michelle (Jojo & Jani's momma & soon to be Cody)

[Cynthia]

Yes, there is risk in anything. Excellent answer from A Hicks, by the way.

 

I'm in the camp that says yes avoid chemicals, but I know that the greater risk is from the diseases caused by ticks and fleas. So I use Frontline Plus every other month,(the flea product is good for 90 days, if you don't have an active infestation), and brush my dogs outside at least once a day. (Side benefit is that they are nice and soft from their daily 90 second brushing.)

 

And agree with Houndtime, parasites aren't connoisseurs, they'll latch onto anything and will not pass up your dog waiting for a bunny rabbit to hop by.

[Guest Ola]

Quite frankly, these are all insecticides, so they're not exactly without side effects. You have to figure out what will work for your particular situation and balance the risks (like with everything). Fortunately, we don't seem to have ticks here and only got fleas once, so we don't need to do anything as prevention.

[zimsmom]

I adopted an 8 year old brood who came from the racing kennel to the adoption kennel to my home. I'm pretty certain the race & adoption kennel did not put any type of tick or flea prevention on. I adopted her in 11/2006 & also never put any Frontline on (since I don't use this during the winter months in NE). She was diagnosed with cancer in 1/2007. I think it is something that nobody really knows.

[Guest dmona]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I like the idea of putting it in different places as someone posted. I knew I could count on you all for good information.

[Guest Emma0422]

I too have worried over this, so what I do just to *try* to help some. I always apply it in different spots each month.

Sometimes I will run the frontline in spots down the back, sometimes I'll only apply it to the back of the neck and base of the tail area.

Hopefully with trying to keep the application spot spread out in different spots each month, it will help to cut down the risks of it building up so much into just one spot, kwim?

 

I figure it can't hurt.

 

 

Michelle (Jojo & Jani's momma & soon to be Cody)

 

I'd be careful putting it in different spots. My girls are always licking their tails and tend to lick each other in that area too (ick!) Anyway, I'd be scared they'd ingest it by having it somewhere that they can reach. I always apply it between the shoulder blades.

 

 

[Batmom]

Pretty sure they can eat an entire application of Frontline Plus without coming to any harm -- see ahicks' post above. Unless they eat the container, too.

 

IMHO the dangers of fleas/ticks outweigh any dangers of monthly Frontline or Advantage application. Either one, if you get an infestation in your home, you'll have to use far worse chemicals to get rid of it. Ticks especially can carry diseases that can kill your dog.