Guest Winterwish Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 (edited) This subject is about getting too hot and the dangers of it. (also,it regarded an error that was made in lab results) Edited November 28, 2008 by Winterwish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 AFAIK she'd have to have meant BUN. Hopefully the heat just took dear Dreamer by surprise and he was dehydrated. Sending little scritchies and cooling thoughts. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 I have no idea if his stressed and overheated condition could have affected the blood results, but I am right there with your logic and would be thinking the same things. So maybe call the vet before having the additional tests done and see if it would make sense to do another blood draw and start over from 'steady state.' (Maybe drive him this time!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyPups Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 I don't have an answer but want to send you a and please give sweet Beautiful Dreamer a kiss on his nose for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SillyDog Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 When my guy Prancer collapsed from the heat it was in the type of conditions you describe. Three other greys were fine in the same weather. As it turned out, Prancer's collapse was as much from having Erhlichia as the heat. The TBD stresses his system and he just has to work harder in the heat. With Dreamer, maybe the underlying condition - whatever it is - is stressing him. I really hope he's doing better, soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Really stupid question here- but isn't bilirubin detected in an urinalysis, rather than a blood panel? If so, did you, er, submit a urine sample for testing? Might be a good idea to wait, re-test, and go from there. Merck Veterinary Manual also notes that pigmenturia can produce a false positive for bilirubin; if the urine was a red color, this should have been detected immediately, but I *think* pigmenturia means there is hemoglobin and/or myoglobin in the urine. As bilirubin is a breakdown product of hemoglobin- excreted in urine- this would explain the cross-reactivity in the test. Then, of course, you need to find out why there was hemoglobin or myoglobin in the urine. Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendie Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 I have no good answers for you Mary, but sending lots of good thoughts for you and sweet Dreamer :grouphug Quote Forever in my Heart Joe T Greyhound, Charly Bear, Angel Daisy, and Katze & Buzz Kitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winterwish Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 (edited) Thank you so much for your thoughts. Edited August 16, 2008 by Winterwish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvAPuppy Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 4.0 is upper normal for direct and total bilirubin in serum. 30 is upper normal (I think...going from memory) for BUN in serum. I really, really hope she meant BUN. If it was really bili, his skin, gums and sclera...everything would be icteric. Quote Angie, Pewter, and Storm-puppy Forever missing Misty-Mousie (9/9/99 - 10/5/15)Fort Wayne, Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winterwish Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 (edited) = Edited August 19, 2008 by Winterwish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytexplorer Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Hi, I just wanted to throw my info into the mix, so that you have something to compare with when Tuesday rolls around. These are considered normal: Mandy's recent bloodwork showed BUN=21 and creatinine=1.8 (1.6=normal) Fit's recent bloodwork showed BUN=22 and creatinine=1.9 From Greyhound Medical Idiosyncrasies, by Dr Feeman, DVM: "Greyhounds can have high normal BUN, creatinine, and AST levels. Some veterinarians may falsely interpret some high normal values as early kidney disease. If your greahound has nigh normal or just above normal kidney values....ask your vterinarian to run a urinalysis. A urine specific gravity that is >1.030 likely indicates that the blood levels are normal for the breed and not likely caused by kidney disease......... Greyhounds have a higher serum creatinine concentration than do non-greyhound dogs. This idiosyncrasy should be taken into account when evaluating healthy greyhounds and those with suspected renal disease." You might be interested in reading more about medical issues. This short booklet (18 pages) can be read/downloaded off our website (that's where I got mine)> www.bhamgreys.com The BUN reading of 35 does seem a little high. Good thing you're bringing in the US on Tuesday. ps.....I have given a copy of the booklet to my vet to keep on file! Best, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K9_Lady Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Mary, sending you a BIG and Arco is sending Dreamer a BIG and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytexplorer Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 The BUN of 35, is just a little high of normal, and I don't know if I'd worry about that or not. Probably not, unless there are other related issues going on. That booklet that I spoke of is mentioned on the front page of bhamgreys.com Scroll down a little until you see "Excellent Medical Reference" and click on the "download PDF" button. When you go to the vet on Tuesday, ask for urine specific gravity and creatinine, and another BUN. All those numbers compared together should solve the mystery. And don't forget to keep us posted!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazehund Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Yikes Mary, scary indeed. Blood values are way out of my realm of experience. I have to rely on my vet for those. I know the heat is bothering Future a bit more as he gets older, but nothing like what happened to Dream. I wonder if a cool coat would help him on the days he has to be out when it is hot? I know there is some thought cool coats can actually make the dog warmer. I have never used one, perhaps someone who has used them (or one of the racing peeps who use them on the track) will weigh in with an opinion on their use. I would definitely repeat the labs and go from there. Big hugs to you and Dreamer from us. Please keep us posted on Dreamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest minzenon Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) I cant help you on the blood readings as yours could very well be different to ours, however, on the heat problems there are a few things you can do for your baby. Make sure he has plenty of fluid in the lead up to going out - i always put water in with their meals - i dont soak the kibble as my boys dont like it mushy but they will drink the extra liquid i add. You can get stuff like RECHARGE which is a rehydration drink for dogs You can also give a slow-k or beta-k tablet a couple of times a day (if its really hot otherwise one tablet should do) to help with dehydration. You can also take with you a bucket to soak his feet in cold water ( as this cools them down) Heat stress will affect all readings (blood and urine) as the lactic acid will be circulating through the blood. You need to have extra fluids to flush out the lactic acid. Heat stress can cause kidney failure, stroke, organ shut down, dehydration, and death. There are some tricks you can use like putting ice cubes in their water or just give them for them to eat, add a little flavouring to the water - something with a meaty taste, put water in a cool dish ( specially designed to keep water cool) (this is why you find dogs drink out of the toilet bowl as its made of ceramic and the water is cooler than in their normal dish) You can buy cool vests that the dogs can wear. Not sure what you can get over there but in australia the vests are very very good. We have problems with heat and humidity here and there are a lot of things you can do to combat this to make summer a little more comfortable for your grey. most of these products you can order online www.vetproductsdirect.com.au Edited May 28, 2007 by minzenon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrskasMom Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Hugs to you Mary and to Dreamer . Hopefully he is feeling better now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winterwish Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) - Edited August 19, 2008 by Winterwish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazehund Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Great minds think alike!! :lol I will be interested to know how the cool coat works for Dreamer. I agree deflecting the heat off his jet black coat can only help keep him cooler. Keep us posted please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winterwish Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) - Heat stress will affect all readings (blood and urine) as the lactic acid will be circulating through the blood. - You need to have extra fluids to flush out the lactic acid. - You can buy cool vests that the dogs can wear. Not sure what you can get over there but in australia the vests are very very good. www.vetproductsdirect.com.au minzenon,thank you so much,I will definitely check out that website. Edited June 23, 2008 by Winterwish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greybookends Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Winterwish am I mistaken is Dreamer epileptic? I thought I remembered reading that he has been seizure free for a while now. Just a thought, my bridge boy Max was epileptic and the heat used to trigger his seizures. Is it possible that Dreamer over heated and had a mild seizure? The symptoms you described sounded very similar to what Max would do if he had a mild one. If he did have a seizure is it possible that his chemistry would be screwed up as the tests were done so close to him having the seizure? I may be grasping at straws here but I was wondering if it is possible. I hope sweet Dreamer is OK. :hope :hope :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Sending many prayers for Dreamer and you too Mary. Please keep us updated. Hoping and praying this is just one of those "nothings" Quote Patti-Mommy of Lady Sophia 7-28-92 - 8-3-04... LaceyLaine 8-2-94-12-5-07... Flash Gordon 7-14-99 - 8-29-09... BrookLynne...Pavé Maria... and 18 Bridge Kids. WATCHING OVER US~SOPHIA~QUEENIE~LACEY LAINE~ CODY ANGELO~FLASH GORDON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tiegra Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) Don't know if this helps as I just scanned through the relies. Found this on a prrevious thread. Dani Normal Adult Range 4-27 Total Bilirubin: Bilirubin is an indicator of liver function. When red cells die, their hemoglobin becomes bilirubin and is transported to the liver where it is converted to bile and is passed down the bile ducts to the intestines. Bilirubin is what gives feces their brown color. It also produces the yellow color in the skin and whites of the eyes when jaundice is present, caused by poor liver function. Total bilirubin goes up in liver disease, bile-duct obstruction and hemolytic anemia. It is low if the spleen or liver are functioning at a low level. A diet low in nitrogen can lower the bilirubin level. For those who want to have a look. http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showtopic=373 Edited May 28, 2007 by tiegra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winterwish Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) - Edited August 16, 2008 by Winterwish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winterwish Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) Thank you so much for your replies! Edited August 19, 2008 by Winterwish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest minzenon Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Just a tip If you have slow-k you will need to nick the top off each tablet -otherwise they pass straight through, you dont need to do this with Beta-K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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