Arthritis And Pain Meds Question

[fritofeet]

I am curious if anybody has an opinion, recommendation for a pain reliever for Diesel. I think he may just need a daily dose, since his arthritis is getting bad. I have him on glucosamine, msm, and chondroiton-but it doesn't seem to be enough.

The vet gave me Deramaxx for him because I am uncomfortable with Rimadyl, and he is all stretched out and relaxed now.

 

Is this stuff safe to use long term? He just doesn't last if he doesn't get it every day.

[Guest minzenon]

If you know anyone in Canada try and get some cartrophen vet. 4 shots, one per week for a month, then a top up every six months or so - brillant stuff.

Try some celery seed capsules for humans I find the capsules are better than the tablets. These will take a few weeks to work but they just lubricate the joints a bit.

Since my boy has had his cartrophen vet injections he hasnt needed any supplements or pain relief.

They are now doing studies of it in humans (although my vet had already tried it on himself - he said it worked for him this was long before human studies had started)

Edited November 23, 2006 by minzenon

[Burpdog]

Which condroitin? There is a big difference in supplements. Same for MSM.

 

Deramaxx and rimadyl have the same serious adverse reaction % in dogs who have a reaction, at 23% death rate from oral (and with rimadyl, injection 23%) This is a percent as related to reactions, not total doses. Deramaxx is the worst on the stomach. Regardless of which one you use, you should add pepcid, tagamet or zantac to the daily regiment.

 

Metacam oral is 12% (death rate as a % of adverse reactions) as is etcogesic, however injectible metacam is 23%. Most of the dogs I've heard of have had various reactions to etcogesic and metacam seems to be the one best tolerated. Sure as I say that, he won't be able to take it

 

In addition to the normal supplements, there are chinese herbs that help arthritis. Of course, chiropractic and acupuncture provide tremendous relief when done on a continuing basis. With my guys, each one has been different as to the time frame needed between adjustments and treatment.

 

Some old ones have benefited from Duralactin. I tried it with Magic and saw no result, but she was very old and on a good regiment of other supplements.

[Batmom]

Watch for adverse reactions, do your periodic bloodwork, and give the med. If he's tolerating Deramaxx, I'd keep him on it. I wouldn't agree that it's hardest on the stomach -- I've never had an issue with it, and haven't given with pepcid, only with meals (altho I might change that if giving long term).

 

I'm not sure where Burpdog's percentages come from, but keep in mind that they are percentages out of the very small percentage of dogs who have severe reactions. IIRC, in the main study of Rimadyl at least, dogs getting the placebo experienced more vomiting than dogs getting the drug. Go figure.

 

Supplements *theoretically* can help build cartilage, but there is little evidence that they actually *do*; not sure there's any evidence at all, for anything except chondroitin. And supplements don't reduce inflammation or pain.

 

We had a dog on Butazolidin -- far worse for potential effect on kidneys/liver than Rimadyl, Deramaxx, etc. -- for years. It kept her comfortable and happy and did not make her pre-existing kidney disease any worse.

[fritofeet]

Which condroitin? There is a big difference in supplements. Same for MSM.

 

The 3 way pill from costco, I'm taking it too. I am going to try the separate ones though...

 

Diesel takes pepcid already, and I think I am going to have to get a pill box to keep track the way they are stacking up...

 

Thank you for the input. I appreciate it, I knew you guys would have good info.

[Penelopesslave]

Hopefully I will not get bashed for posting this, but I give our Bell (12 year old) a buffered aspirin & a Pepcid whenever she is having a rough day with her arthritis (both with food). It seems to work very well for her and we have never had a problem with vomiting or Big D. She loves to run and go for walks so she gets this whenever she "overdoes it." She is also on Fresh Factors and Joint Health formula from Springtime Inc. The one time she had Rimadyl after a dental she was violently ill.

[kjw]

Lou has been on anti-inflammatories since his crash 7 weeks ago; we started with metacam oral, but had to discontinue after 3 weeks because of bloody diarhrea. We switched to Deramaxx, and are giving between 25 to 33 mg once a day, and twice if he seems like he's in pain. Some days I don't give it at all. No problems with it so far. He's also on Glucosamine and msm.

[Remolacha]

Sugar has been on Metacam for her arthritus (daily) and hasn't had any problems. She also takes Cosequin (the other brands didn't work as well for her)

 

The way my Dr described the supplements working, when I was recently diagnosed with arthritus in my hip (and this made sense to me), it doesn't grow new tissue, it "plumps up" what's there, sort of like the difference between a flat dry sponge, and a puffy water filled one

[Guest JudiK]

Kixie is 11, she is on something new - it came out about 6 months ago. Of course I'm not at home and the pillbox I have packed with her meds does not have the names of the pills. She was on Rimadyl years ago, more recently Deramax - but they both seemed to stop working. She also takes a glucosamine supplement daily. The new stuff is not supposed to have the side-effects of either of the others - it starts with a P and she takes one/half of one of the one with the sillouette of the golden on it and the same of the one with the daushound (sp) on it every day. I can put the name of her new med on this thread when I get home Sunday if no one else gets it before then.

[ShantisMom]

My girl is only 2 with arthritis. She is on Previcox (Firacoxib) every day, 227mg. I can half it if she is under control with the limping. I asked my vet about long term effects, he said it is very safe. She will need it long term since she is sooooo young! I also have her on Synovi G3. It is a great joint supplement. I get mine from Omahavaccine.com. $35 for a bottle of 120. They take 1 a day for 6 weeks then go to half tablet. Shanti is doing great on this stuff.

[GreyTzu]

Hopefully I will not get bashed for posting this, but I give our Bell (12 year old) a buffered aspirin & a Pepcid whenever she is having a rough day with her arthritis (both with food). It seems to work very well for her and we have never had a problem with vomiting or Big D. She loves to run and go for walks so she gets this whenever she "overdoes it." She is also on Fresh Factors and Joint Health formula from Springtime Inc. The one time she had Rimadyl after a dental she was violently ill.

 

 

 

I do almost the same thing with Dancer, but we use tagamet instead. We use Springtime Inc also, along with some other supplements. I also have Arnica on hand and if Dancer plays rough or gets bumped too hard, she gets a dose of it. As far as I know, Dancer has never had Rimadyl.

 

 

 

Dancer is 12 also.

 

 

 

I agree with seking chiropractic and acupuncture treatments. You can search here to see if there is a Acu/Chiro Vet near you.

[Guest JudiK]

Yes, yes - Previcox is the new miracle drug Kixie is on... it also doesn't interfere with heart meds like the other two do. Her glycosimine supplement is Glyco-Flex II - early in the morning I can remember all sorts of things if someone primes the pump!

[Guest SusanP]

Our Simon is on Previcox and also glucosamine and chondritin for arthritis. We also tried accupuncture (no effect) and Adequan injections at the vet's--something the vet says often has amazing results...but it didn't do anything for Simon. Not sure how much the meds we have her on help. She doesn't seem to be in pain, but she is rather frail and she does limp. Anyway, none of the meds have bothered her. We're trying for quality of life here, anyway...

[Guest Greensleeves]

Our Nelly has had slightly better response to Adequan injections than with oral supplements. She's six with a severely damaged pelvis and femur from a break as a pup. She had her initial course (I think it's 4 weeks of 2x weekly injections, followed by one shot every 3 months) about a year and a half ago. She's also on Rimadyl twice a week (75 mg).

 

I'm thinking about going the Adequan route for Whistler, too (12, no visible signs of arthritis on X-ray, but still some achiness in the back legs), since he's on oral prednisone, and Rim and Deramaxx are contraindicated.

[ShantisMom]

I have heard Adequan injections can make a world of differnce for some dogs and nothing for others and you won't know until you finish the series of shots at $100 a shot. We use the Synovi G3. Our vet recommended that as it is almost the pill form of adequan. It is suppose to do the same thing. It takes 6 weeks to notice. Both my girls take it. Seems to be working here.

 

Yes, yes - Previcox is the new miracle drug Kixie is on

I thought that might be the "P" medicine you were talking about. Works wonders here!!! Huge difference in 1 dose!

 

Our Kona used aspirin for years. She did the best on that and the vet said that was fine for her. For her it was a quality of life thing over future damage since she was getting very old.

 

All depends on the dog...

[fritofeet]

Thanks guys, for all the replies. I am better armed when I see the vet next week.

 

Diesel will be 9 pretty quick, so he has a long life ahead of him. I just hate to see him miserable, and it kills me when he cries while putting on his pj's.

[Guest greyhound515]

My Daphne is 11, almost 12 and has been experiencing some pain from her arthritis. We've used Deramaxx, then Previcox. Last week after visiting the vet we got her on Metacam and she doesn't seem to be responding well. I know about the Rimadyl and deramaxx and Previcox and even Metacam (according to our vet) users needing to get bloodwork done 2x year.

 

My real concern is quality of life. My dog still loves to play like a pup and does so for about 15-20 minutes every night. But I see the pain and limping and I am worried that she's in pain and don't want her last months or years filled with pain. Hope I'm not going to go off-topic or get bashed but I love her so and really don't want (and cannot bear) to think she may be suffering or in pain.

 

How do you know when its time to let go?

[fritofeet]

My Daphne is 11, almost 12 and has been experiencing some pain from her arthritis. We've used Deramaxx, then Previcox. Last week after visiting the vet we got her on Metacam and she doesn't seem to be responding well. I know about the Rimadyl and deramaxx and Previcox and even Metacam (according to our vet) users needing to get bloodwork done 2x year.

 

My real concern is quality of life. My dog still loves to play like a pup and does so for about 15-20 minutes every night. But I see the pain and limping and I am worried that she's in pain and don't want her last months or years filled with pain. Hope I'm not going to go off-topic or get bashed but I love her so and really don't want (and cannot bear) to think she may be suffering or in pain.

 

How do you know when its time to let go?

 

 

That is really a hard one. My original post was from 2006, and since then Diesel and his sister have turned 10 and we lost our almost 3 yo hound to a stroke from complications from medication and undiagnosed thyroid cancer.

 

I had to make that awful decision to help my hound. It was painfully obvious that he was suffering, so I guess it was a no brainer, but I'm still bawling as I type this.

 

I took the advice from some wise greytalkers to heart a long time ago, and the decision happens when the quality of life is poor.

 

When your pup doesn't enjoy anything-food-play-sleep-petting-ect... they are telling you it's time.

 

If you see the fire and the spark at least in some activity, then they are telling you they aren't ready.

 

You could post your question in another thread and get better answers, I stink at getting my point across through posting-but there are unfortunately a lot of GTers that have had too much experience with having to choose what is best for their hound and maybe they can give you better insight.

 

But, back to your baby-have you tried really good glucosamines? I have Diesel on a Wellness joint supplement that seems to make all the difference in the world for him, and he hasn't required Deramaxx in a long time. He does go through a bad spell once in awhile, and requires baby asprin and pepcid for a bit-but he seems pretty good right now knock on wood.

 

[GeorgeofNE]

Not a vet, not a doctor--Here's my 2 cents...my old dog (not a greyhound) had SEVERE arthritis resulting from a TPLO surgery gone bad.

 

Rimadyl was great, for a while, but the pain got too bad. He took Tramadol for the last year of his life, and it REALLY helped. As a side note, I take Tramadol for MY arthritis (which was convenient, as I didn't have to buy any for him!).

 

From what I've read, the "nutraceuticals" might help with minor arthritis.

[Guest greyhound515]

Thanks to you both for greyt advice. One friend was sure she would "snap out of" this. She chastised me severely and I thought maybe I wasn't doing all I could...moving from MN to FL was a good start, also no stairs in FL home helped a lot. Last week she was in a lot of pain and took her to vet. Started her on metacam (may have misspelled this) and for a fwe days it helped a lot, then by Monday this week, she wasn't doing well. By Wednesday morning I could see she was in a lot of pain and I upped the med-gave extra 20cc's in PM. Spoke with vet Wed and he advised against this. Spoke with friend's husband (vet in MN, Dr Michael Fox) and he told me that if she wasn't eating she may be telling me its her time. Don't know how Michael zeroed in so fast and Daph was never a great eater (always enticed her to eat with Cottage cheese, v-8, grated parmesan, fresh grated, n ot crap from can--chicken, turkey, veggies, mini carrots, steak as often as possible, even salmon and tuna and marlin). She was barely eating 1-2 c of food daily--almost nothing for #55 Grey. I had my answer for sure on Wednesday, when I got home for lunch and she never got up from bed. She staggered out to living room and the pain in her eyes was so clear to me. She fell after we got on the grass and I carried her much of the way home. By yesterday afternoon she was barely able to walk and fell while we walked. Have been taking her on shorter, more frequent walks for last month or two--always did in summer or very hot or very cold weather--This morning she didn't make it far and started falling as she tried to pee. I held her back end so she could go pee & poop without falling in it. She would have been so humiliated--Daph was always so fastidious and always grooming/licking herself. I called the vet after carrying her home and explained what was going on. They set us up to come and send her to the Bridge at 11:30 this morning. My friend came with us (who cared for Daph the few times I wasn't home overnight since moving to FL) and it was the hardest thing I ever did. This sweet, beautiful girl with the brindle that all my kissing and stroking and petting could not rub off is now running free without pain. I have never loved anyone or anything like I adored my Greygirl. She was truly the light in my life. I am so glad I could hold her and pet her and tell hew how loved she was and how much she will be missed. I know she is wearing angel wings and probably nosing all the other dogs so she can be closer to God.

[Batmom]

I'm sorry you had to say goodbye to your girl. A miserably hard and yet loving thing to do.

 

Godspeed, beautiful stripy girl.

[fritofeet]

Oh dear. I'm so sorry. It is such a horrible thing to have to go through, but I think it is the deepest and most loving thing we can do for our family.

 

 

 

[greyhoundlov]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-0...arthritis_N.htm

 

This is pretty amazing.

Edited February 23, 2008 by greyhoundlov

[RobinM]

I am so sorry to hear about your baby.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2008 by RobinM

[robinw]

i'm so sorry for your loss