Let Me Show You Why They Give Us Those Muzzles

[greytpups]

Dogs like wolves are pack animals. The survival of the pack depends on the health of the pack, if you have a weak "link" (an injured or sick member) so to so to speak, for the pack to survive they have to rid themselves of the weak link. That's basically what "pack mentality" is.

 

With a group of dogs, sometimes all it takes is for one of the group to "scream" and the others will turn on it and each other. For instance, you have a group of greyhounds at a play date, one of the hounds steps wrong, hurts it's leg, screams and the others will go after it. It's instinctual. If you've ever seen this happen, you will never forget it.

 

I had it happen twice in my home. My pack went after Saint when he had a seizure. They immediately turned on him and since we were in the house, they weren't muzzled. I put myself between Saint and the pack and the only thing that kept them from getting to him was me. I'm very lucky because my pack listens to me and when I started yelling at them and pushing them back they listened, and don't kid yourself, size doesn't matter because the only dog in the house that had any success at getting passed me was Jilly Bean and she found herself tossed off to the side. My pack was deadly serious and it wasn't until after Saint quit seizing and things calmed down did the pictures come back one at a time as to how things looked and it was scary!

 

This is the reason you see greyhounds in a turn out pen at a track with muzzles. It's for the safety of the hounds and the people caring for them.

 

Thank you very much for the info! I take Bella to a weekly dog "playdate" at the enclosed diamond. There's only about 6 of us tops, but I will mention to them that if this were to happen, then everyone hold back their own dog...does that sound like the proper thing to do?

 

Edit: Just wanted to mention that we do muzzle.

 

Maggie, we've had this happen a couple of times at the park. All of us owners yell and run over and grab any dog, doesn't matter who the owner is, and get them off the hurt dog. that's usually what happens, a dog yelps and the pack mentality takes place. That's why I always keep Ben and Brooke in my sights. Even Ben will get in on the attack, that's my first clue to get my a$$ moving as fast as I can because you know how much he runs

 

Once they've calmed down things are usually fine again...but it's a reminder that first and foremost they are dogs, even if you think of them as your babies.

 

 

 

[Guest CampWhippet]

Other: I have a double-fenced yard. In the smaller yard where they really can't run we do not use them. I also have a doggie door so they can be out there when we are not home but when I open the yard to the lake the dogs can and do run-run-run. The games of chase can get ugly fast with a bunch of whippets and greys playing tag so they are muzzled.

[Guest Fashionhounds10]

Thank you for adding this post! We have lived in an apartment since we adopted our grey and have walked her. I do take her to run and play in friend’s yards and we have a tennis court that we have let her run in. We also have an Italian grey and we have let them run together but it makes us nervous cause our grey gets mad she can't catch our Italian. They get along any other time and she wants to play but this has made us nervous and this just lets us know what COULD happen to either one. We are getting ready to move to our first home with a fenced yard and I am lucky I have read this before it was too late. So sorry for your dog but glad she is ok.

 

Thanks again

Jaimie Martin

www.fashionhounds10.com

Edited March 29, 2011 by Fashionhounds10

[Guest HappyHarleysMom]

This thread is great! The muzzle advice is priceless, and stressing the point about greyhound skin being so thin is very important.

 

I remember when my ex and I first brought Wag and Leeann home back in the early nineties. Within the first few weeks, Wag got a hair up his butt with Leeann when they were both going through the archway from the kitchen to living room at the same time. He did one grrr-nip on her back and kept walking. Wag just wanted to be first through the archway. That one nip resulted in a vet visit with about 10 stitches to Leeann's back. Thin skin.

 

Once when Wag was older, he simply walked under a low tree branch in our yard, and got a scratch on his skin. The scratch was barely visible, right near his collar, and I didn't think twice about it because it was so small. But, Wag got a staff infection from it. Thin skin.

 

Thanks for this thread. They're a gentle breed, they're still dogs with dog mentality, and they do have very thin skin. And, we love our thin skinned hounds!

[Chicocat]

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When someone on our adoptor's group site asked about muzzling, Kennelmom's husband (who adopted one of their dogs from our group) posted to us about a nasty pack attack suffered by one of their senior girls - I'm sure that story is also on GT somewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

That was one of the most horrifying days of my life. In a nutshell - Ken and I just got back with half the pack from a trip to TX - my dad stayed at our house and dog-sat the seniors. We said goodbye to my dad and turned the dogs out to the yard. Ken walked me to the garage because I was running out to get lunch. We were chatting and I heard some barking. I told him to go check on it because it just sounded "off" to me. He said it was probably nothing and he'd see me when I got back. I started up the Jeep and something just told me to go check on things too.

 

I walk into the kitchen and hear Ken screaming from the yard to call the vet...blood was EVERYWHERE and he was holding Erin in his arms. He got her into the car while I did a quick check of everyone for other injuries (none) and muzzled everyone. Basically he got to the yard to see one dog at her neck and four other dogs pulling at each leg <img src="http://forum.greytalk.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cry1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cry1.gif" /> Poor Erin doesn't have any teeth so she was completely defenseless <img src="http://forum.greytalk.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cry1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cry1.gif" /> DH broke up a 9 dog pack fight and didn't have a scratch on him (when we are around there is no question who the alpha dog is). Erin's surgery was tricky because her neck was torn open fractions of an inch away from her jugular vein.

 

Here's my sweet baby Erin when she got home from the vet:

<img src="http://www.greyhoundfreaks.com/gallery2/d/2404-2/erin_post4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

 

<img src="http://www.greyhoundfreaks.com/gallery2/d/2406-2/erin_post5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

 

Muzzles...yeah, they are a very good thing. They can be a lifesaver.

 

Since that time we've made some pretty major changes with our routine and how we run the pack. We muzzle when we aren't home (which is rare). We muzzle when we take them to run. We muzzle certain dogs in the yard. If we separate the pack for any length of time, then it's back to muzzles for everyone when outside. Same thing when new dogs come in. Our dogs are never in the yard unattended. We do very controlled releases (one dog at a time so they don't go charging out into the yard as one big pack). I don't let them get riled up and I'm always watching for even the slightest sign of trouble. The ones that like to play with toys get one-on-one time in the yard. Honestly, our dogs don't really run around our yard...even though it's an acre they pretty much just go out and lay down together <img src="http://forum.greytalk.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

 

Depending on your dogs I think there are ways to manage the pack so that you can trust them again. But the rules you set only apply when you are actually present...all bets are off if you aren't right there. Even then you need to be in tune with the pack and know when to rely on muzzles as a tool to keep everyone safe while you work out any pack issues.

 

You are doing everything right. LOTS of good information in this post!

[Guest zaylea]

If there's more than one in the car, I muzzle them. I have a little Jetta with a dog hammock and zipline in the backseat. Two dogs can fit, but until they get settled there's always the risk of a little scuffle.

 

I suspect this is the case for larger vehicles too, because when Major was brought up from Florida, I guess for some part of the trip they weren't muzzled, and her ear was torn and we had to rush her to the vet for stitches.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Bump for the newbies.

 

Someone on FB asked me why my dogs wear muzzles in the yard (I had posted a photo of my gate) and it made me think of this thread.

[Guest Profgumby]

I just posted a new thread about our girls today. It is sort of volatile here right now. Well, volatile is the wrong word, but there is always some "positioning" with a new pack member. Beauty and Lady had a "discussion" in the yard while playing. A side of Beauty has appeared with what she sees as the weaker or new dog. She gets nippy and mouthy when running around. I do not want an accident or an incident to cause bodily injury so they are going to be muzzled. All toys will be removed from the yard so they can do their potty business and not decide to discuss who gets a toy or start running like fools.

 

When they got riled up and started their argument. I think I yelled, but I dashed right in, grabbed Beauty by the collar and at the same time stepped between her and Lady as I was alone. They stopped instantly. I guess that makes me the pack leader...lol. But as was said, you cannot wait for them to stop...everyone grab a dog by the colar! I would have grabbed each of the two by their collars but Lady was too far away and I wanted a physical barrier to be between them. I am not afraid of being hurt by them and they will probably never attack a human so it seemed the best course. It also seems like this is going on forever, but it was literally 3 seconds from start to intervention.

 

We also have a few obstructions in the yard where I get concerned about them flying about. One is our huge maple tree. We also have a row of bushes in front of the fence and I don't want the dogs clipping through between them at speed either.

 

The hard part is training the family that "oh they are just playing" can lead to a "discussion" or 17 staples or a broken (insert part here). I do not need to worry about muzzles when we are not home as each girl has her own "house" (crate).

 

We have never muzzled in the van, but I think we will. Even when we are in the van, especially on long rides, like this Saturday. I don't want a space issue in our mini van to cause harm either.

 

Glad this topic is here! Muzzles are not "mean". Anyone who thinks so, in my opinion, is going to get their heart ripped out one day while holding a badly injured grey....

 

And hoo boy is PatC going to give me the stink eye...she hates her muzzle....

Edited July 15, 2011 by Profgumby

[Guest Profgumby]

Thank you for adding this post! We have lived in an apartment since we adopted our grey and have walked her. I do take her to run and play in friend’s yards and we have a tennis court that we have let her run in. We also have an Italian grey and we have let them run together but it makes us nervous cause our grey gets mad she can't catch our Italian. They get along any other time and she wants to play but this has made us nervous and this just lets us know what COULD happen to either one. We are getting ready to move to our first home with a fenced yard and I am lucky I have read this before it was too late. So sorry for your dog but glad she is ok.

 

Thanks again

Jaimie Martin

www.fashionhounds10.com

 

Play tends to bring out the aggression/competition it seems, even if the dogs otherwise get along just fine. Our two combatants for today are practically laying on top of each other right now, sleeping like puppies.

[3greytjoys]

When they got riled up and started their argument. I think I yelled, but I dashed right in, grabbed Beauty by the collar and at the same time stepped between her and Lady as I was alone. They stopped instantly. I guess that makes me the pack leader...lol. But as was said, you cannot wait for them to stop...everyone grab a dog by the colar! I would have grabbed each of the two by their collars but Lady was too far away and I wanted a physical barrier to be between them. I am not afraid of being hurt by them and they will probably never attack a human so it seemed the best course. It also seems like this is going on forever, but it was literally 3 seconds from start to intervention.

 

You were lucky.

 

Actually, dogs certainly will bite a person's body who comes between them! Much safer to grab a high-back chair (or any other preferably solid divider, or extra large cutting board, etc.) to flip over to create a shield between the dogs' faces. Use whatever object will allow you to keep yourself at a safe distance. Avoid sticking arms into the middle of a dog fight. If possible, try to avoid pulling the dog's tail or legs because the dog usually turns back towards the person and is still in full attack mode.

 

I stopped 2 Greyhounds from fighting (while hounds were standing up on their hind legs like bears) by using something as small as a 1' wooden step stool turned sideways between their faces.

 

As mentioned before, if you're outside, a high pressure of water squirted from a hose often helps break things up, or a pooper scooper placed between the dogs. If you're with a large pack of dogs outside, if one dog begins yelping, BEFORE things escalate, everyone should act immediately to remove the yelper from the enclosure (before the pack attacks) and remove every dog ASAP.

 

Feed dogs separately. Two large dogs (who resided together for years) were eating their own private bone each in their yard. One dog decided he wanted BOTH his bone and his brother's bone. He killed his canine brother for that bone!!

[Annette]

We muzzle when we have two dogs in the car or truck. We muzzle when we introduce fosters to our girl. If the foster and our girl appear to want to play out in the yard, on come the muzzles. Dixie pretty much ignores any other dog when it wants to play. We muzzle fosters when they cannot be monitored when the cat is out and about in the house.

 

So far, we haven't "needed" the muzzles.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Annette

[Guest verthib]

But just remember, even with muzzles on you can still have a pack fight and they can still do damage. Be sure to keep an eye on your guys outside even with muzzles on. Last year, we had a pack fight, a few muzzles came off and staples were the end result.

 

I keep reading that packs won't fight.... why is it if they are living together in harmony, they would fight outside?

[HoundHeavenAZ]

But just remember, even with muzzles on you can still have a pack fight and they can still do damage. Be sure to keep an eye on your guys outside even with muzzles on. Last year, we had a pack fight, a few muzzles came off and staples were the end result.

 

I keep reading that packs won't fight.... why is it if they are living together in harmony, they would fight outside?

 

IMHO, hounds are sociable and enjoy each other's company but foremost they are competitors. Alliances, loyalties and affection all get tossed aside when there is an opportunity to "win".

 

The blue girl (5 yo) that got ripped so horribly on page #15 had been living peacefully for 4+ years with the hound (9 yo) that NIPPED her on the back as a reaction to two small dogs charging outside the fence that they were in. Mom (an experienced hound owner) was standing just 5-6 feet behind them when they charged the fence and she never even saw the nip occur! No warning that she saw, no growling, just "back off the fence girlie these mutts are MINE"! Then one or both of them moved and then the HUGE rip happened.

Yesterday those same two hounds spent the day together meeting and greeting the public in front of Petsmart. They DO live happily together -- not cuddly like some, but peacefully and are very well socialized and active.

 

These dogs ( like most I think) are competitors and the handlers MUST realized that that is their primary motivation. Yes they enjoy friendships, but they like to win even more. It has taken me years to accept that even the sweetest hound can and will turn on their pals to conquer a situation that appeals to them so I try to never underestimate that characteristic.

[TheFullHouse]

But just remember, even with muzzles on you can still have a pack fight and they can still do damage. Be sure to keep an eye on your guys outside even with muzzles on. Last year, we had a pack fight, a few muzzles came off and staples were the end result.

 

I keep reading that packs won't fight.... why is it if they are living together in harmony, they would fight outside?

 

Packs will fight given the right circumstances. My pack gets along great in the house. They're easy going, wait in line for their turn when getting treats and will share beds but put them outside and they get competitive. Greyhounds tend to play really rough also and all it takes is for one to get a little too rough and the recipient will get mad and go after the other. Once two start they all join in. It's the reason dogs in racing kennels wear muzzles. There is nothing worse than a fight in the turn out pen.

 

None of mine wear muzzles inside the house but I put them on every time I put more than one dog out at a time.

 

 

My pack indoors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same dogs outside.

 

 

 

 

 

The entire pack going nuts because the dog next door started barking. Typical pack behavior.

 

 

 

Without muzzles I'm risking someone getting hurt. Not a chance I wish to take.

Edited September 10, 2011 by JillysFullHouse

[Guest LindsaySF]

Great pics Judy. Really illustrates what we're talking about.

 

I have found that many Greyhounds (my own, fosters, and boarders) are very docile and lazy in the house, but outside they get much more playful and rambunctious. Even Teagan, who sleeps 99% of the time inside, gets going really crazy in the yard. And if they all see/hear something on the other side of the fence? Forget it, they take off as a big pack and they really get going.

 

It was mentioned a few pages back, but I'll mention it again here too. Keep nails trimmed short! The second playing photo Judy posted, with both dogs pawing at each other, that can cause injury if a long or sharp nail nicks that thin Greyhound skin the wrong way.

 

 

 

Someone said to me recently that they don't want to muzzle their dogs in the yard because they like to play with toys out there. The dogs CAN still pick up toys with the muzzles on, as long as parts of the toy fit through the gaps in the muzzle. Stuffies work well, balls not so much. I still play fetch with my crew, but safely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest myboys2]

Accidents, Accidents!!!!

We had Big Dan 3 days and he torn a 4 inch slit in Boises throat. 3 puncture wounds. 64 stitches later, 3 layers deep on the 4 inch slice, Boise on 3 meds and 527.97$ later, Boise is feeling much better. They are still cautious of each other....MAMA"S BAD!!!!!!! Thought for 3 min, just 3 min. they would be ok. Dan stepped on Boise, accident, Boise bit Dans leg,1 puncture wound small, Boise has no front teeth so he could not do much damage, Dan just protected himself. Reached down and picked up Boise by the throat...son of a bitch I was pissed at myself!!!!! Good thing a friend of mind was one of the vets for the Dells Greyhound Track and he came in to the office on Sat. to sew up Boise. They put him to sleep and stitched him up. Of course, that just could not be all. My Boise just got too warm and his temp. got up to 107 degrees..you know their brains fry at 110 degrees and they are brain dead then. Ice packs, cold IV's and a fan. I had never seen heatstroke before and Doc Hines said that is why so many Vets do not like to work on Greyhounds. They overheat so fast. He was fine after that little episode, slept for 1 whole day and we came home. We have a appt. this Thurs. for Boise to have the outside stitches removed and the stent taken out. Boy I got such a scolding from my husband, and it was well deserved. After 4 dogs, 6 years I have NEVER had to use a muzzle. I am now. They do not seem to mind. I am ok with it..I learned my lesson. Thanks for listening, did not post sooner because why let everyone know I am a careless mom. This topic fir me perfect..to all, take heed please...I am so sorry even though the dogs are ok with each other. I think they know it was a accident, I hope

[Guest LindsaySF]

I am glad that Boise is going to be okay. Scary.

[Guest mnblewis1]

I am glad I read this. I had 2 greys years ago and we were in the house one day. I picked up a toy and threw it to one of the dogs, which I did frequently, not thinking anything about it. The other dog decided that it was his and bit the other on the back. It required stitches and looked kind of like a crime scene in my living room. I had forgotten about it till I read this. I am looking to foster a couple of dogs soon, when I get my new house, and this was a great reminder. Thanks!

[Guest greysmitten]

Ok, can I ask an obvious but still ignorant question?

 

I have a hound, but most people don't. How can I ensure my girl's thin skin is protected from play nips if she's the only one wearing a muzzle? I used to use the provided racing muzzle when introducing Azi to other dogs, but if the other dogs have free reign, what's the point?

[kudzu]

I don't muzzle my dog if the other dogs are not muzzled. If for some reason we are using muzzles, ex. we have new fosters, all the dogs get muzzled. That even includes my parents 35 lb muttlet if she is visiting. I have a basket muzzle just her size. Shhh! Don't tell Dad.

[Guest KennelMom]

Ok, can I ask an obvious but still ignorant question?

 

I have a hound, but most people don't. How can I ensure my girl's thin skin is protected from play nips if she's the only one wearing a muzzle? I used to use the provided racing muzzle when introducing Azi to other dogs, but if the other dogs have free reign, what's the point?

 

 

In short, if the other dogs aren't muzzled, there's nothing you can do. But one reason I don't like dog parks. And, muzzle are really just one piece of the puzzle. We had an injury caused by a dew claw that pretty much ripped a dog from spine to belly down her side. Many other breeds like to play by "wrestling" or pawing other dogs...some greyhounds do too.

[Guest Psycmeistr]

 

 

This is where we got our inexpensive but invaluable kennel muzzles: Halemar Muzzles

 

Thanks for the tip. Our kids (one has two BIG German shepherds, another has a yellow lab) will be coming to visit us this Thanksgiving.

 

I just went and ordered three extra muzzles...

[kudzu]

 

 

This is where we got our inexpensive but invaluable kennel muzzles: Halemar Muzzles

 

Thanks for the tip. Our kids (one has two BIG German shepherds, another has a yellow lab) will be coming to visit us this Thanksgiving.

 

I just went and ordered three extra muzzles...

For those breeds you might have better luck with these muzzles: http://www.petedge.com/product/Guardian-Gear-Basket-Muzzles-for-Dogs/47520.uts This is the type I used for my parents mutt. (closest description is Sheltie x Chow x shepherd type)

[TheFullHouse]

Bumping for the newbies.

[Guest albertahound]

My first post and it has me thinking about the potential for violence among dogs in general and greys in particular. My sweet Sophie has never shown any aggression to us or our Leo, Lowchen. At first she would nip at the back of his neck when playing, but stopped as soon as corrected. She is the most beautiful and gentle of dogs I know.

 

But (in another post coming up re other dog aggression) she does not appear to know how to protect or fight back. She doesn't need a muzzle it's all those dogs at the dog park or pet store. But I would muzzle if she showed another side to her personality.